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01-20-2014, 04:36 AM   #91
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If Ricoh/Pentax would stretch their camera product cycle, perhaps they can focus on lens issues/roadmaps/AF etc. to fully support the K-3

01-20-2014, 04:45 AM   #92
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Thanks for the update, Ron. I don't see where Pentax is going to keep the K3 around longer than previous cameras. Clearly the K5 stuck around for a long time due to natural disasters and Ricoh acquiring Pentax. I definitely agree that it is better to space out models. Update them when there is a reason for update . This would be less dependent on Pentax than on Sony (when do they have a new sensor come out?) and Nikon (when do they release a follow up to the D7100?).

As to full frame, I think it's coming, but it takes time to have a finished product and glass in place. No one wants a big flop, but sometime this year seems right.
01-20-2014, 04:49 AM   #93
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Great report Ron! Very good inniative!

As much as I like Ron's report, I disklike Pentax's apologetic victim-attitude in some remarks.


QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The growth of mobile phones being more and more geared to photography will continue and new techniques and apps will keep creating more options.
The advantage of dedicated cameras over phones is their larger format and resolution. All things being equal, that will never ever change. But then all things have do have to be equal. The camera manufacturers have to learn from and keep up with the mobile phone cameras. When dedicated can do all the tricks mobile phones are using, but on a larger format with high IQ lenses they'll have the upper hand again. Maybe it's smart to team up with them instead of competing against them?


QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Mobile phones have now replaced a lot of Point and Shoot cameraís and the newest Sony Xperia Z1 can already be taken for a little dip in the water.
A little dip in the water?! I used it to look behind the live rock of my saltwater aquarium on multiple occasions. That means completely submerged for over 10 minutes. In the meanwhile transmitting the image to my TV. I used it to find a predatory schrimp, so I could position the trap close to it.


QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Ricoh Imaging is still trying to integrate all parts of what used to be Pentax, into their total business. Not that itís unfinished business, but as the only piece of consumer market focus in a untill now completely business to business oriented company, it has a different outlook in this field. Itís clear Ricoh has the ambition of making imaging a strong part of their business and they want to be a force all over the world. Pentax is now truly integrated in their R&D, production, distribution and sales channels that used to be very different for the Ricoh and Pentax camera businesses.
I like that. They could maintain the business to business in the camera section too! If they elevate Pentax to professional gear. It's a big oppertunity for Pentax... If they embrace it.


QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Camera sales through large franchises like Media Markt and Saturn will be difficult.
I remember Media Markt / Saturn carrying Pentax. Somewhere in the K10D/K20D era. They did it before, why wouldn't they be able to do it again?


QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The professional market for photography is rapidly changing. Press agencies make demands what cameraís can be used by photographers working for them.
That's not a problem, but an advantage for Ricoh. This is exactly where Ricoh's business2business experience can do a lot of good.


QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Ricoh is active in printing, but unfortunately doesnít have a consumer (or semi professional photographer) oriented photo printer.
I'm so missing the word "yet" at the end there.
01-20-2014, 05:16 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote Ricoh is active in printing, but unfortunately doesn’t have a consumer (or semi professional photographer) oriented photo printer. I'm so missing the word "yet" at the end there.
The last research report I read points out that Ricoh is developing this product and making a major thrust in production printing.

01-20-2014, 05:25 AM   #95
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The K3 strikes me as something of a deliberate statement by Ricoh, showing that they can produce cameras of a really solid quality up there with anyone. And if you want a camera body of similar quality on FF, the competition will ask you for at least twice as much if not more. Hence the 200K shutter life, among other things.

Longer refresh cycles could turn out to be a tragedy of the commons. It might be in everyone's interests if it were so, but anyone who ignores it stands to gain an advantage. So everyone ignores it. Consumers are easily bored and retailers need fresh products and new marketing campaigns. it could just as easily be that the present situation of falling demand and an oversupply of cameras will be solved by several players exiting the market or being acquired by larger ones. Rationalizing the formats is another way of doing it. If the top half or third of APS-C was replaced by FF there would be fewer camera models around, for example. Ditto if M43 bit the dust in favour of APS-C or 1" cameras. How many formats were around in the days of film? No one complained there weren't enough.

What I don't get is this: FF is a very small market, but then the market for any camera costing more than 1000 bucks is very small, ditto with lenses costing 500-1000 bucks or more. In a way, Ricoh is already playing in the FF market with the K3 and the DA and D-FA lenses, at least by virtue of sticker price. And the price of consumer FF is falling year by year too. if Ricoh can make the K3 and their better lenses work financially on APS-C then why not FF? Going against it would seem to be swimming against a very powerful tide. I'm not advocating FF per se and have no particular views on formats; I'm just looking at a rather odd state of affairs and the way the world seems to be going.

Amateur Photographer magazine here ran a poll in December asking readers "What has been your favourite trend of 2013?" 54 per cent said smaller cameras with an FF sensor and 24 per cent said lack of an AA filter. Forget the format. The overall message is that folks warm to better image quality from smaller cameras. That doesn't mean packing an FF sensor into any old camera. it might equally mean putting an APS-C sensor into a camera which might formerly have taken a 1" or 1/1.7" sensor. If there are any trends around, I'd guess smaller, better IQ and cleverer (the software side) is one. Not great news for the classic DSLR then.

So following this, what are people's two or three most significant new cameras in 2013? Mine are

Ricoh GR (APS-C quality in a small format and fairly affordable)
Sony A7 (FF quality in a small format and fairly affordable)
Sony RX10 (both image quality and the kitchen sink in terms of features in a small format though not yet fairly affordable )

* Fairly affordable related the the part of the market the camera is in.

Each of those cameras has been very well received and reviewed so far as I know. Hardly anyone is saying they don't cut it because they lack a pentaprism and a mirrorbox.

Last edited by mecrox; 01-20-2014 at 09:55 AM.
01-20-2014, 05:27 AM   #96
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Uluru, sorry. Are you joking, or you don't know what is a timelapse?
01-20-2014, 05:55 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I remember Media Markt / Saturn carrying Pentax. Somewhere in the K10D/K20D era. They did it before, why wouldn't they be able to do it again?
Saturn in Berlin carried a very good range of Pentax gear when I was there last (2012).
01-20-2014, 05:58 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
The K-3 has high IQ... but not the highest. It is compact... but not the most compact. It's innovative, but not the most innovative. It has a good bang for the buck, but not the best.
I'm intrigued now: Which camera

a) does have the highest IQ and b) is the most innovative and c) is the most compact and d) gives the best bang for the buck - - - all in one, single package?

I don't think that camera has ever been made and I would rather know which camera provides the best mix of these properties at a price I can afford.

01-20-2014, 06:38 AM   #99
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Thanks so much for the report.

As a consumer I'm perfectly fine with longer life cycle of K-3 if it means Ricoh plans to support it with firmware updates like how Fuji does it. That is much more preferable than others where they deliberately cripple cameras or leave out features just so they can have a new model next year.
01-20-2014, 07:00 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
The last research report I read points out that Ricoh is developing this product and making a major thrust in production printing.
Yes, they're doing well in production printing. Very large volume printing machines for large mailings, booklets, etc... Inlcuding cut-sheet printing. Made in the US! Big devices that don't need to stop printing to change out toner or paper. But sadly no photoprinters for consumers or businesses on the horizon.


QuoteOriginally posted by Stone G. Quote
I'm intrigued now: Which camera

a) does have the highest IQ and b) is the most innovative and c) is the most compact and d) gives the best bang for the buck - - - all in one, single package?

I don't think that camera has ever been made and I would rather know which camera provides the best mix of these properties at a price I can afford.
That's not what I said. It doesn't need to be the best in everything. But a flagship camera does need to be the best at something. If it would only be the very best in just one of those areas. They're to afraid to make sacrifices to exel at anything.

What is the Pentax speciality?

Pick one or two characteristics, be the ultimate best in class and keep that level up for a longer period.
01-20-2014, 07:44 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Yes, they're doing well in production printing. Very large volume printing machines for large mailings, booklets, etc... Inlcuding cut-sheet printing. Made in the US! Big devices that don't need to stop printing to change out toner or paper. But sadly no photoprinters for consumers or businesses on the horizon.



That's not what I said. It doesn't need to be the best in everything. But a flagship camera does need to be the best at something. If it would only be the very best in just one of those areas. They're to afraid to make sacrifices to exel at anything.

What is the Pentax speciality?

Pick one or two characteristics, be the ultimate best in class and keep that level up for a longer period.
In my local area all the professional photographers who make a living selling prints own a printer that is suitable. I think they use Canon machines. I suspect that in some Ricoh boardroom somewhere there is a photo of these things with a target marker on them.
01-20-2014, 07:59 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by RobA_Oz Quote
Nobody here has suggested that there was an official statement to that effect, but if you double the shutter life of a body, all other things being equal, you'll double the life of the camera. Now, that's either the result of a marketing push to create a unique selling proposition, an expectation that the rate of picture taking is going to increase, or an acceptance that the product cycle is going to lengthen.
It's the first.... a marketing push to create a unique selling proposition.
01-20-2014, 08:33 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
They still list the 645NII! (note that unlike the 67, it's not marked as discontinued). They also still list e.g. FA20-35 - but it's no longer in their PDF brochure. Seems easy enough to find in online shops, though, e.g. Rakuten: Pentax FA20-35mmF4 AL- Shopping Japanese products from Japan
Thanks for the link, Espen.
The 645N can only be found under "Discontinued models" off the English "Products" page,
so it's good to see it still hanging on there.

I'd contemplated getting an FA 20-35 as a walkaround lens,
but finally waited for the DA 20-40, and am really glad I did.
01-20-2014, 08:37 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
For Japanese market, they will produce M42 Takumars if someone's asking.
That would put them in competition with Zeiss:

F-Mount Lenses | ZEISS United States

(Scroll down to see what's available in M42.)
01-20-2014, 08:51 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Great report Ron! Very good inniative!

I remember Media Markt / Saturn carrying Pentax. Somewhere in the K10D/K20D era. They did it before, why wouldn't they be able to do it again?
Mediamarkt in Alphen a/d Rijn still does .... it depends on the shop it self it seems
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