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01-20-2014, 08:01 PM - 1 Like   #121
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The pathway to FF, if ricoh chooses to pursue it, would probably be to initially launch with a FF mirrorless k-mount with on sensor PDAF. Use the existing crop lenses in crop mode and existing FF lenses in FF mode. Gauge reception and sentiment briefly and if the complaint is the missing pentaprism, launch a DSLR model. If people are satisfied with the EVF concept, launch lenses that recess into the mirror box and quickly create a compact and complete system that is still backwards compatible with the legacy K-mount system.

01-21-2014, 12:35 AM   #122
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Because the K-01 was such a resounding success, that it's worth a try

P.S. The Head of Business Development said it will be a SLR; speculation is useless (and so is niche idea that would make a marginally viable project a failure).
01-21-2014, 12:59 AM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
The pathway to FF, if ricoh chooses to pursue it, would probably be to initially launch with a FF mirrorless k-mount with on sensor PDAF. Use the existing crop lenses in crop mode and existing FF lenses in FF mode. Gauge reception and sentiment briefly and if the complaint is the missing pentaprism, launch a DSLR model. If people are satisfied with the EVF concept, launch lenses that recess into the mirror box and quickly create a compact and complete system that is still backwards compatible with the legacy K-mount system.
Because all the people that bought the currently availbe FF MILC will then suddenly switch (back) to Pentax? No chance... Too late. I agree, packing a very high punch in a very small durable WR package is a niche that would have fitted Pentax like a glove. But they were too afraid to do it and passed that one up to Sony.

Maybe Pentax can manufacture lenses in foreign mounts? I wouldn't mind a very flat Pentax pancake on the A7r.
01-21-2014, 01:56 AM   #124
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Ditto. It will be a DSLR by function (albeit exact form is still under cover, as I hear).
Lots of K-3 tech inside, some never seen before novelties too.
Some nice lenses to come with it. First of all, revisited FA limiteds, revisited macro lens, then two new zooms, and (as I hear) another brand new prime. All very, very beautiful, polished and very unique.
Different selling point from a K-3, so APS-C line and FF line, despite using same mount, won't be in direct competition.


Last edited by Uluru; 01-21-2014 at 02:13 AM.
01-21-2014, 03:00 AM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
The pathway to FF, if ricoh chooses to pursue it, would probably be to initially launch with a FF mirrorless k-mount with on sensor PDAF. Use the existing crop lenses in crop mode and existing FF lenses in FF mode. Gauge reception and sentiment briefly and if the complaint is the missing pentaprism, launch a DSLR model. If people are satisfied with the EVF concept, launch lenses that recess into the mirror box and quickly create a compact and complete system that is still backwards compatible with the legacy K-mount system.
As much as I love my K-01 that would only be like a second model to bring to market.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Because the K-01 was such a resounding success, that it's worth a try

P.S. The Head of Business Development said it will be a SLR; speculation is useless (and so is niche idea that would make a marginally viable project a failure).
Point maken!

QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Different selling point from a K-3, so APS-C line and FF line, despite using same mount, won't be in direct competition.
Well as is with Other mounts that offer aps-c and FF the same way. Hi quality glass for the top offering, since that system will never be cheap.
01-21-2014, 03:24 AM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
As you probably could expect I brought up the subject for a camera with an APS-H sensor inside.
I'm curious... How did the Pentax representatives respond to that?
01-21-2014, 05:47 AM   #127
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Didn't they laugh loudly ?
01-21-2014, 07:57 AM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Because the K-01 was such a resounding success, that it's worth a try

P.S. The Head of Business Development said it will be a SLR; speculation is useless (and so is niche idea that would make a marginally viable project a failure).
I think the K-01 was not successful because on the aesthetic side, it had a very radical design the people either loved or hated, and in the technical side, Pentax's CDAF system was still not up to snuff against other mirrorless systems. On chip PDAF is available now with the sensors that would likely make it into a pentax FF and should be utilized whether that camera is a mirrorless or with an OVF. This technological advancement means that the only sustainable technical advantage a DSLR has over a mirrorless is energy efficiency (battery life if they used the same size batteries but that could be closed with a bigger battery) because it has a passive view finder technology.

01-21-2014, 08:18 AM   #129
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But was the aesthetic side the only reason for it? Even the fact that people started to appreciate it after a dramatic price cut is a negative, to consider it as a flagship. Maybe it works just if it's cheaper, maybe people can't see it representing the best of the K-mount. Sony targeted lower price with their FF MILCs as well (and it appears that's the most interesting feature they offer).

And with all the advancements, technology is not there yet; IIRC some Pentax official (maybe Mr. Kitazawa) said something similar. The on-sensor PDAF (which is absent from one "full frame" MILC recently released ) would have to compete with a K-3-level (or better) AF. The EVF would have to compete with a 100% "full frame" optical viewfinder (preferred by many, me included). The K-mount would make it impossible to build a body impossible to hold-thin (and if Pentax would dare to include a real grip!)
01-21-2014, 08:19 AM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well our discussion about APS-H was not so long and in the corner of offering a Full Frame camera model from Pentax. In general about what attraction a Full Frame from Pentax could have when using the same 24 megapixelsensor as already in camera's from other brands. Is there a marketshare to gain from other manufacturors or just appealing to the current Pentax user. My main statement was that Pentax could gain more offering a camera with a sensor designed for Pentax, instead off using the same sensor others use. When designing a new sensor the option for APS-H comes along. The advantage for APS-H is better imgae quality offering starting from APS-C while offering a new cameramodel not in the offerings from the competition. I think this would be very attractive for sports and wildlife photography. If it is an option for Pentax to have a new sensor for them, I don't know and the people on the other side off the table also didn't. Since we don't know how expensive it would be to design such a sensor. The option I would be in favor for would be a 20 megapixel APS-H sensor.
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I'm curious... How did the Pentax representatives respond to that?
I responded to the same question earlier. We talked short but seriously about it.
01-21-2014, 08:26 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
This technological advancement means that the only sustainable technical advantage a DSLR has over a mirrorless is energy efficiency (battery life if they used the same size batteries but that could be closed with a bigger battery) because it has a passive view finder technology.
Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by passive viewfinder technology.

I was told last spring Ricoh does not believe EVF displays are yet up to the level necessary to replace an OVF, so a mirror / prism remains a necessary technology for a viewfinder. Ricoh believes OLED will eventually rise to the level Pentax engineers deem sufficient to replace a mirror. A camera with LiveView only, such as the K-01, does not require a mirror.
01-21-2014, 08:34 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by passive viewfinder technology.

I was told last spring Ricoh does not believe EVF displays are yet up to the level necessary to replace an OVF, so a mirror / prism remains a necessary technology for a viewfinder. Ricoh believes OLED will eventually rise to the level Pentax engineers deem sufficient to replace a mirror. A camera with LiveView only, such as the K-01, does not require a mirror.
He means that you can look through an optical viewfinder with your camera off and still see something (as long as your lens cap is off too).
01-21-2014, 09:15 AM   #133
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Correct. Eventually EVFs will be able to match the OVF in quality of image and could even improve upon it by adding focus peaking, boosting visibility for slow lenses, telescoping for ergonomics, VF CHIMPing, view finder face detect, and more features. On chip PDAF while it may still be catching up to traditional PDAF systems should eventually be better than traditional PDAF systems because there will be less likelihood for needing microfocus adjustments or having front and back focus issues plus you have the benefit that you can have the CDAF system as a double check or as an assistant such as using face detection to select the PDAF autofocus point.

Using a bigger than traditional MILC K-mount body gives them a lot of space to put a huge (compared to DSLR) battery.
01-21-2014, 09:23 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
They still list the 645NII! (note that unlike the 67, it's not marked as discontinued). They also still list e.g. FA20-35 - but it's no longer in their PDF brochure. Seems easy enough to find in online shops, though, e.g. Rakuten: Pentax FA20-35mmF4 AL- Shopping Japanese products from Japan
The production of the 645NII ended in 2009.
01-21-2014, 09:24 AM   #135
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I always laugh when people say the K-01 wasn't successful. I have one. Around my house it was successful and still is. If you're read the Pentax execs pronouncements , then you know the official line with the cancellation of the K-01 line was that there was a technical problem. My speculation would be the heat generated by a body that size running only in live view, with a 24 Mp sensor, and battery life issues. But I'm just speculating. Or they were just covering for a messed up launch. I think it needed a lower launch price myself. It's so ambiguous anyone can make up their own narrative... I choose to go with the official Pentax line as a second choice and complete ambivalence as a first choice. I "really" don't need to know what "really" happened.
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