Ricoh Imaging Europe S.A.S. - Report of a meeting!

**Eric Auer** · 01-21-2014, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by dcshooter

For a photographer looking to invest in a camera, B+ grades across the board is better than an A in one area and Cs to Fs in others.

Faulty generalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Daikokuya · 01-21-2014, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by dcshooter

Many industry observers predict that 1 or 2 years form now, Olympus won't exist. When you are a smaller player, establishing a niche and prioritizing stable growth can be a much better course than trying to hit home runs with every product.

1- or 2-years is short to see Olympus go under, imo. One example is Pentax. They've survived the debacle in recent years, which nobody but few predicted. Olympus has got through the most serious moment of book-cooking with the help of two big banks, Mitsui-Sumitomo and Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ, which would be impossible in the Western standard. I don't think Olympus is healthy in terms of financial performance, but as long as banks support them, Olympus would have some room to breathe. That's the way the Japanese does business. There are a bunch of the so-called "zombie companies" here.

RonHendriks1966 · 01-22-2014, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by Daikokuya

1- or 2-years is short to see Olympus go under, imo. One example is Pentax. They've survived the debacle in recent years, which nobody but few predicted. Olympus has got through the most serious moment of book-cooking with the help of two big banks, Mitsui-Sumitomo and Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ, which would be impossible in the Western standard. I don't think Olympus is healthy in terms of financial performance, but as long as banks support them, Olympus would have some room to breathe. That's the way the Japanese does business. There are a bunch of the so-called "zombie companies" here.

Oohh I don't know if 1- or 2-years is a short term. Not to say that it is Olympus going under, but there will be victims in this periode until the end of 2015. Olympus had the bad periode in a time that the cameramarket was still growing. But now the cameramarket is still shrinking looking for its new natural level off sales in different markets (dslr, milc, P&S, etc). That market is going to be considderable smaller then the market was in 2013 and that was only 50 % off the market in 2011.

Daikokuya · 01-22-2014, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

Oohh I don't know if 1- or 2-years is a short term. Not to say that it is Olympus going under, but there will be victims in this periode until the end of 2015. Olympus had the bad periode in a time that the cameramarket was still growing. But now the cameramarket is still shrinking looking for its new natural level off sales in different markets (dslr, milc, P&S, etc). That market is going to be considderable smaller then the market was in 2013 and that was only 50 % off the market in 2011.

I think that market force doesn't matter for Olympus to ditch camera business. "doesn't matter" may be too strong, but Olympus has a reason not to have to take loss in camera business so seriously. As you know, Olympus is making money by medical equipment, especially the endoscope that Olympus has a 75% share in the market. Then why doesn't Olympus just give up camera and concentrate on medical equipment? The reason can be summarized by two: lens technology can be applied to the development of endoscope, and retail camera business is useful as an advertisement for Olympus. That's why Olympus isn't sensitive to the loss in camera, which is reinforced by the strong support of two of the top three banks in Japan.

**monochrome** · 01-22-2014, 05:38 AM

Originally posted by Corto-PA

Faulty generalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Slothful Induction - Wikipedia

Kenntak · 01-22-2014, 05:50 AM - **1 Like**

I also heard rumors that Sony will scale back its consumer products division, and that its most profitable business is insurance; and that Panasonic will be getting out of the camera industry.

Clavius · 01-22-2014, 06:16 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by dcshooter

Really? That seems to be exactly the niche they are filling in the SLR space. Show me a Nikon or Canon that is as full featured and compact as the K-3.

Those are some strict rules there. No, no Nikon or Canon. And no SLR either. I can show you something that is much more compact and packed with more punch then the K-3 though? From a brand who wasn't afraid of innovation. Tell me, do consumers abide by the don't-compare-apples-with-oranges-rules too? Because then I am in very serious violation and need to bring some gear back to the store right away.

mikemike · 01-22-2014, 07:38 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kenntak

I also heard rumors that Sony will scale back its consumer products division, and that its most profitable business is insurance; and that Panasonic will be getting out of the camera industry.

Panasonic is retreating from consumer products on many fronts - Plasma TVs, Cell Phones, and compact camera divisions are all either in the process of shutting down or scaling back. They haven't said anything yet about their u43 business although they did announce new products in that line recently.

Sony's agenda in the camera business is much different than Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji, or just about anyone else. They want to push the industry in terms of electronics because they sell components like sensors, microprocessors, and LCDs, and other chips to everyone else in the industry and they are happy to sell or license virtually anything they put into their camera to their competitors. In the consumer realm, they will continue to be Sony and doing what Sony does in all of their consumer electronic lines - selling a solid but somewhat quirky product with a couple premium features (like a Zeiss lens), a couple gimmicky features (like panorama), and a couple of quirky features (like memory stick or SLT) at an ultra premium price.

Kunzite · 01-22-2014, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by Clavius

I can show you something that is much more compact and packed with more punch then the K-3 though?

Can you? And if you can find one or two examples, what would it prove? That Pentax is not pursuing "high quality, durability and affordability in a small package"? Definitely not, because they are - and it's seen in their products. OTOH, can you say that a company which mainly makes cheap viewfinderless cameras and one or two that fits those requirements is pursuing those ideals?

Daikokuya · 01-22-2014, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Kenntak

I also heard rumors that Sony will scale back its consumer products division, and that its most profitable business is insurance; and that Panasonic will be getting out of the camera industry.

Sony's most profitable division is finance including insurance and bank. Sure it is. Without it, Sony would be in a big trouble because manufacturing is bleeding.

Uluru · 01-22-2014, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Daikokuya

Sony's most profitable division is finance including insurance and bank. Sure it is. Without it, Sony would be in a big trouble because manufacturing is bleeding.

More precisely, overproduction is bleeding. Manufacturing is tied to unrealistic goals, that's all.
Many should learn a lesson or two from Ricoh Imaging and Leica, when it comes to production estimates of cameras at least.

Den · 01-22-2014, 03:47 PM

So if Pentax came out with a FF, what difference would it make to you? Would you make bigger prints? Would you sell more? Would your ego be more fulfilled? Would you feel more accepted as a pro? Just curious, as I too would probably get one, just for the hell of it in my case.

ElJamoquio · 01-22-2014, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by Den

So if Pentax came out with a FF, what difference would it make to you? Would you make bigger prints? Would you sell more? Would your ego be more fulfilled? Would you feel more accepted as a pro? Just curious, as I too would probably get one, just for the hell of it in my case.

Less money outlay, slightly less stuff to carry around, bigger prints, better pics, enjoy the viewfinder, etc.

Not a necessity but it'd be nice.

RonHendriks1966 · 01-22-2014, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Den

So if Pentax came out with a FF, what difference would it make to you? Would you make bigger prints? Would you sell more? Would your ego be more fulfilled? Would you feel more accepted as a pro? Just curious, as I too would probably get one, just for the hell of it in my case.

I think this is one off the major issues. If you sell prints, people don't pay more for them. You don't sell more then you did before. People probably won't need bigger prints. I walk around with a Yellow K-01, I don't care what people think.

I got two 59 inch hi prints made from images made with the yellow K-01. You really don't need anything more for that.

I still hope to have the funds to buy the FF, since it probably will be good for my small ego.

**Eric Auer** · 01-22-2014, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Den

So if Pentax came out with a FF, what difference would it make to you? Would you make bigger prints? Would you sell more? Would your ego be more fulfilled? Would you feel more accepted as a pro? Just curious, as I too would probably get one, just for the hell of it in my case.

I'd buy a FF for no other reason at all than to amuse myself, And it would not be Pentax as I would like to play around with lenses from another system.

Meanwhile, I still love my K-5 IIs to death.

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01-21-2014, 05:32 PM	#151
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by dcshooter For a photographer looking to invest in a camera, B+ grades across the board is better than an A in one area and Cs to Fs in others. Faulty generalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

01-21-2014, 05:44 PM	#152
Daikokuya Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 210	Originally posted by dcshooter Many industry observers predict that 1 or 2 years form now, Olympus won't exist. When you are a smaller player, establishing a niche and prioritizing stable growth can be a much better course than trying to hit home runs with every product. 1- or 2-years is short to see Olympus go under, imo. One example is Pentax. They've survived the debacle in recent years, which nobody but few predicted. Olympus has got through the most serious moment of book-cooking with the help of two big banks, Mitsui-Sumitomo and Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ, which would be impossible in the Western standard. I don't think Olympus is healthy in terms of financial performance, but as long as banks support them, Olympus would have some room to breathe. That's the way the Japanese does business. There are a bunch of the so-called "zombie companies" here.

01-22-2014, 02:34 AM	#153
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Originally posted by Daikokuya 1- or 2-years is short to see Olympus go under, imo. One example is Pentax. They've survived the debacle in recent years, which nobody but few predicted. Olympus has got through the most serious moment of book-cooking with the help of two big banks, Mitsui-Sumitomo and Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ, which would be impossible in the Western standard. I don't think Olympus is healthy in terms of financial performance, but as long as banks support them, Olympus would have some room to breathe. That's the way the Japanese does business. There are a bunch of the so-called "zombie companies" here. Oohh I don't know if 1- or 2-years is a short term. Not to say that it is Olympus going under, but there will be victims in this periode until the end of 2015. Olympus had the bad periode in a time that the cameramarket was still growing. But now the cameramarket is still shrinking looking for its new natural level off sales in different markets (dslr, milc, P&S, etc). That market is going to be considderable smaller then the market was in 2013 and that was only 50 % off the market in 2011.

01-22-2014, 05:02 AM	#154
Daikokuya Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 210	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 Oohh I don't know if 1- or 2-years is a short term. Not to say that it is Olympus going under, but there will be victims in this periode until the end of 2015. Olympus had the bad periode in a time that the cameramarket was still growing. But now the cameramarket is still shrinking looking for its new natural level off sales in different markets (dslr, milc, P&S, etc). That market is going to be considderable smaller then the market was in 2013 and that was only 50 % off the market in 2011. I think that market force doesn't matter for Olympus to ditch camera business. "doesn't matter" may be too strong, but Olympus has a reason not to have to take loss in camera business so seriously. As you know, Olympus is making money by medical equipment, especially the endoscope that Olympus has a 75% share in the market. Then why doesn't Olympus just give up camera and concentrate on medical equipment? The reason can be summarized by two: lens technology can be applied to the development of endoscope, and retail camera business is useful as an advertisement for Olympus. That's why Olympus isn't sensitive to the loss in camera, which is reinforced by the strong support of two of the top three banks in Japan.

01-22-2014, 05:38 AM	#155
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Corto-PA Faulty generalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Slothful Induction - Wikipedia

01-22-2014, 05:50 AM - 1 Like	#156
Kenntak Senior Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 198	I also heard rumors that Sony will scale back its consumer products division, and that its most profitable business is insurance; and that Panasonic will be getting out of the camera industry.

01-22-2014, 06:16 AM - 1 Like	#157
Clavius Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: De Klundert Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,150	Originally posted by dcshooter Really? That seems to be exactly the niche they are filling in the SLR space. Show me a Nikon or Canon that is as full featured and compact as the K-3. Those are some strict rules there. No, no Nikon or Canon. And no SLR either. I can show you something that is much more compact and packed with more punch then the K-3 though? From a brand who wasn't afraid of innovation. Tell me, do consumers abide by the don't-compare-apples-with-oranges-rules too? Because then I am in very serious violation and need to bring some gear back to the store right away.

01-22-2014, 07:38 AM - 1 Like	#158
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by Kenntak I also heard rumors that Sony will scale back its consumer products division, and that its most profitable business is insurance; and that Panasonic will be getting out of the camera industry. Panasonic is retreating from consumer products on many fronts - Plasma TVs, Cell Phones, and compact camera divisions are all either in the process of shutting down or scaling back. They haven't said anything yet about their u43 business although they did announce new products in that line recently. Sony's agenda in the camera business is much different than Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji, or just about anyone else. They want to push the industry in terms of electronics because they sell components like sensors, microprocessors, and LCDs, and other chips to everyone else in the industry and they are happy to sell or license virtually anything they put into their camera to their competitors. In the consumer realm, they will continue to be Sony and doing what Sony does in all of their consumer electronic lines - selling a solid but somewhat quirky product with a couple premium features (like a Zeiss lens), a couple gimmicky features (like panorama), and a couple of quirky features (like memory stick or SLT) at an ultra premium price.

01-22-2014, 08:26 AM	#159
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Clavius I can show you something that is much more compact and packed with more punch then the K-3 though? Can you? And if you can find one or two examples, what would it prove? That Pentax is not pursuing "high quality, durability and affordability in a small package"? Definitely not, because they are - and it's seen in their products. OTOH, can you say that a company which mainly makes cheap viewfinderless cameras and one or two that fits those requirements is pursuing those ideals?

01-22-2014, 03:28 PM	#160
Daikokuya Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 210	Originally posted by Kenntak I also heard rumors that Sony will scale back its consumer products division, and that its most profitable business is insurance; and that Panasonic will be getting out of the camera industry. Sony's most profitable division is finance including insurance and bank. Sure it is. Without it, Sony would be in a big trouble because manufacturing is bleeding.

01-22-2014, 03:41 PM	#161
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by Daikokuya Sony's most profitable division is finance including insurance and bank. Sure it is. Without it, Sony would be in a big trouble because manufacturing is bleeding. More precisely, overproduction is bleeding. Manufacturing is tied to unrealistic goals, that's all. Many should learn a lesson or two from Ricoh Imaging and Leica, when it comes to production estimates of cameras at least.

01-22-2014, 03:47 PM	#162
Den Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Washington (State) Posts: 929	So if Pentax came out with a FF, what difference would it make to you? Would you make bigger prints? Would you sell more? Would your ego be more fulfilled? Would you feel more accepted as a pro? Just curious, as I too would probably get one, just for the hell of it in my case.

01-22-2014, 03:53 PM	#163
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by Den So if Pentax came out with a FF, what difference would it make to you? Would you make bigger prints? Would you sell more? Would your ego be more fulfilled? Would you feel more accepted as a pro? Just curious, as I too would probably get one, just for the hell of it in my case. Less money outlay, slightly less stuff to carry around, bigger prints, better pics, enjoy the viewfinder, etc. Not a necessity but it'd be nice.

01-22-2014, 04:34 PM	#164
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Originally posted by Den So if Pentax came out with a FF, what difference would it make to you? Would you make bigger prints? Would you sell more? Would your ego be more fulfilled? Would you feel more accepted as a pro? Just curious, as I too would probably get one, just for the hell of it in my case. I think this is one off the major issues. If you sell prints, people don't pay more for them. You don't sell more then you did before. People probably won't need bigger prints. I walk around with a Yellow K-01, I don't care what people think. I got two 59 inch hi prints made from images made with the yellow K-01. You really don't need anything more for that. I still hope to have the funds to buy the FF, since it probably will be good for my small ego.

01-22-2014, 04:38 PM	#165
Eric Auer Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,211	Originally posted by Den So if Pentax came out with a FF, what difference would it make to you? Would you make bigger prints? Would you sell more? Would your ego be more fulfilled? Would you feel more accepted as a pro? Just curious, as I too would probably get one, just for the hell of it in my case. I'd buy a FF for no other reason at all than to amuse myself, And it would not be Pentax as I would like to play around with lenses from another system. Meanwhile, I still love my K-5 IIs to death.