Ricoh Imaging Europe S.A.S. - Report of a meeting!

RonHendriks1966 · 02-10-2014, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by Kunzite

So we're reaching again a saturation point?

It does look like it and sales are slowing down overhere in our economy. I do wonder by how much this year the decline will be. Our economy looks like is recovering slower then the rest off Europe (by 1-2 year) due to some internal issues.

mikemike · 02-10-2014, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

P&S's are on their way out. Nothing new or unexpected with the top graph.

The bottom graph is/was unexpected to me. but it's still just one data point, and I don't think that cell phones are a threat to ILC's yet.

I think the beauty of ILC's is decoupling optics with their durable quality and value from electronics which become obsolete annually and rapidly depreciate. If they were smart, camera manufacturers would emphasize this more in their marketing message.

hfelice · 04-21-2014, 09:40 PM

Very informative report. Must keep pushing the Pentax name. It carries such a high reputation everywhere. Getting into sport in a big way is a very goog idea.

**Aristophanes** · 04-22-2014, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

P&S's are on their way out. Nothing new or unexpected with the top graph.

The bottom graph is/was unexpected to me. but it's still just one data point, and I don't think that cell phones are a threat to ILC's yet.

1. High-end P&S should enjoy a renaissance as larger sensors get cheaper and are kitted into bodies for discerning photographers. The 1990's saw a war between camera companies trying to serve the compact "pro" segment. This was Ricoh's bread and butter back in the day withe the analog GRs. Olympus, Nikon, Fuji, and Contax as well.

2. I believe a great number of people have tried ILCs in this digital Golden Age photographic transformation, but they find ILCs cumbersome (small body, largish lens, still) and perhaps too pricey. They also have not networked well enough or played nicely with tablets (esp. Apple's). I believe we'll see a retrenchment of this market with much slower growth overall.

Keep in mind that the most profitable segment of the photo market is selling someone their second camera.

Mr Spocko · 04-25-2014, 02:08 PM

I Agree, larger sensors would revive the compact market (too many years with the same old boring tiny sensors) this would allow them to seriously attack smart phones (they can't compete on sensor size)
As for Ricoh, whilst I'd love to remain upbeat, the reality is that they are fourth in a four horse race.

I just honestly think it's too late in the day for a big push, and that the market will be tough over the next few years.
We could blame Hoya for not moving things forward enough, just think the time has run out.

totsmuyco · 04-25-2014, 06:26 PM

Originally posted by Mr Spocko

I Agree, larger sensors would revive the compact market (too many years with the same old boring tiny sensors) this would allow them to seriously attack smart phones (they can't compete on sensor size)
As for Ricoh, whilst I'd love to remain upbeat, the reality is that they are fourth in a four horse race.

I just honestly think it's too late in the day for a big push, and that the market will be tough over the next few years.
We could blame Hoya for not moving things forward enough, just think the time has run out.

Considering the compact market, I would like to see an X-5 successor with an APS-C sensor and with more reach (1200mm) as with Canon and the rest. Probably this would put Pentax at par with the others in the bridge camera category.

ElJamoquio · 04-25-2014, 07:46 PM

Uh... a 1200mm equivalent would be a 800mm lens on an APS-C lens. It seems unlikely, and would have to be a package larger than the K-3+Bigma.

mee · 04-25-2014, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Considering the compact market, I would like to see an X-5 successor with an APS-C sensor and with more reach (1200mm) as with Canon and the rest. Probably this would put Pentax at par with the others in the bridge camera category.

That would be super, I agree, but physically impossible.

The only reason those bridge and P+S cameras can achieve such large zoom ranges is due to the small size of the sensors in them.

totsmuyco · 04-26-2014, 01:18 AM

Okay, so I was wishing for the impossible. So how about a much better sensor making Pentax the leading bridge camera there is? It would really be a nice present for my wife.

ElJamoquio · 04-26-2014, 08:07 AM

It seems like that is a low margin business to me. Dunno. I'm not sure of the volume.

In either case I'd guess that there's not going to be another Pentax-branded bridge camera - wouldn't that be a Ricoh?

Fogel70 · 04-26-2014, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Okay, so I was wishing for the impossible. So how about a much better sensor making Pentax the leading bridge camera there is? It would really be a nice present for my wife.

Just imagine what the price would be.
The Sony RX10 with 1" sensor is quite expensive, and large and heavy. Using APS-C sensor on a bridge camera would probably make it like a K5 with a DA* 50-135 mm lens attached.

ILC has a big advantage when using large sensors, as you don't always have to lug around with a very big heavy lens.

totsmuyco · 04-26-2014, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

It seems like that is a low margin business to me. Dunno. I'm not sure of the volume.

In either case I'd guess that there's not going to be another Pentax-branded bridge camera - wouldn't that be a Ricoh?

Yes, I believe they said that's what they said. Non-interchangeable lens cameras will be under Ricoh. But who knows. As to profitability, I'm not sure if it shares a big slice of the pie. But one thing I know, a lot of people who want an all in one camera buy the bridge cameras here.

Mr Spocko · 04-29-2014, 12:48 AM

Originally posted by totsmuyco

Yes, I believe they said that's what they said. Non-interchangeable lens cameras will be under Ricoh. But who knows. As to profitability, I'm not sure if it shares a big slice of the pie. But one thing I know, a lot of people who want an all in one camera buy the bridge cameras here.

No real room for Pentax, Canon, NIkon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus lots of bridge models
You can even buy the X-S1 for a steal right now (it's flawed but surprisingly good) RX10 is too expensive

I don't see how Pentax can compete here, unless they really did something special

**GlassJunkie** · 05-05-2014, 07:28 PM

Originally posted by Mr Spocko

No real room for Pentax, Canon, NIkon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus lots of bridge models
You can even buy the X-S1 for a steal right now (it's flawed but surprisingly good) RX10 is too expensive

I don't see how Pentax can compete here, unless they really did something special

It's ALL about the glass. The Box is nominal....

RonHendriks1966 · 05-17-2014, 03:42 AM

A news update from son. They hat a fall in sales off 32 % over the past year and expecting this fall in sales over the coming year to the same level with a decrease of another 30 %. So the bottom is not yet reached for the camera bussiness.

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/photo-news/540627/sony-camera-sales-fall-by-a-third

05-17-2014, 03:42 AM	#240
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Sony A news update from son. They hat a fall in sales off 32 % over the past year and expecting this fall in sales over the coming year to the same level with a decrease of another 30 %. So the bottom is not yet reached for the camera bussiness. http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/photo-news/540627/sony-camera-sales-fall-by-a-third Last edited by RonHendriks1966; 05-17-2014 at 03:09 PM.

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02-10-2014, 09:19 AM	#226
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675 Original Poster	Originally posted by Kunzite So we're reaching again a saturation point? It does look like it and sales are slowing down overhere in our economy. I do wonder by how much this year the decline will be. Our economy looks like is recovering slower then the rest off Europe (by 1-2 year) due to some internal issues.

02-10-2014, 10:01 AM	#227
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by ElJamoquio P&S's are on their way out. Nothing new or unexpected with the top graph. The bottom graph is/was unexpected to me. but it's still just one data point, and I don't think that cell phones are a threat to ILC's yet. I think the beauty of ILC's is decoupling optics with their durable quality and value from electronics which become obsolete annually and rapidly depreciate. If they were smart, camera manufacturers would emphasize this more in their marketing message.

04-21-2014, 09:40 PM	#228
hfelice New Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Photos: Albums Posts: 3	Very informative report. Must keep pushing the Pentax name. It carries such a high reputation everywhere. Getting into sport in a big way is a very goog idea.

04-22-2014, 09:01 AM	#229
Aristophanes Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Rankin Inlet, Nunavut Photos: Albums Posts: 3,948	Originally posted by ElJamoquio P&S's are on their way out. Nothing new or unexpected with the top graph. The bottom graph is/was unexpected to me. but it's still just one data point, and I don't think that cell phones are a threat to ILC's yet. 1. High-end P&S should enjoy a renaissance as larger sensors get cheaper and are kitted into bodies for discerning photographers. The 1990's saw a war between camera companies trying to serve the compact "pro" segment. This was Ricoh's bread and butter back in the day withe the analog GRs. Olympus, Nikon, Fuji, and Contax as well. 2. I believe a great number of people have tried ILCs in this digital Golden Age photographic transformation, but they find ILCs cumbersome (small body, largish lens, still) and perhaps too pricey. They also have not networked well enough or played nicely with tablets (esp. Apple's). I believe we'll see a retrenchment of this market with much slower growth overall. Keep in mind that the most profitable segment of the photo market is selling someone their second camera.

04-25-2014, 02:08 PM	#230
Mr Spocko Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 254	I Agree, larger sensors would revive the compact market (too many years with the same old boring tiny sensors) this would allow them to seriously attack smart phones (they can't compete on sensor size) As for Ricoh, whilst I'd love to remain upbeat, the reality is that they are fourth in a four horse race. I just honestly think it's too late in the day for a big push, and that the market will be tough over the next few years. We could blame Hoya for not moving things forward enough, just think the time has run out.

04-25-2014, 06:26 PM	#231
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Originally posted by Mr Spocko I Agree, larger sensors would revive the compact market (too many years with the same old boring tiny sensors) this would allow them to seriously attack smart phones (they can't compete on sensor size) As for Ricoh, whilst I'd love to remain upbeat, the reality is that they are fourth in a four horse race. I just honestly think it's too late in the day for a big push, and that the market will be tough over the next few years. We could blame Hoya for not moving things forward enough, just think the time has run out. Considering the compact market, I would like to see an X-5 successor with an APS-C sensor and with more reach (1200mm) as with Canon and the rest. Probably this would put Pentax at par with the others in the bridge camera category.

04-25-2014, 07:46 PM	#232
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Uh... a 1200mm equivalent would be a 800mm lens on an APS-C lens. It seems unlikely, and would have to be a package larger than the K-3+Bigma.

04-25-2014, 07:51 PM	#233
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Originally posted by totsmuyco Considering the compact market, I would like to see an X-5 successor with an APS-C sensor and with more reach (1200mm) as with Canon and the rest. Probably this would put Pentax at par with the others in the bridge camera category. That would be super, I agree, but physically impossible. The only reason those bridge and P+S cameras can achieve such large zoom ranges is due to the small size of the sensors in them.

04-26-2014, 01:18 AM	#234
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Okay, so I was wishing for the impossible. So how about a much better sensor making Pentax the leading bridge camera there is? It would really be a nice present for my wife.

04-26-2014, 08:07 AM	#235
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	It seems like that is a low margin business to me. Dunno. I'm not sure of the volume. In either case I'd guess that there's not going to be another Pentax-branded bridge camera - wouldn't that be a Ricoh?

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04-26-2014, 09:05 AM	#236
Fogel70 Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Photos: Albums Posts: 3,062	Originally posted by totsmuyco Okay, so I was wishing for the impossible. So how about a much better sensor making Pentax the leading bridge camera there is? It would really be a nice present for my wife. Just imagine what the price would be. The Sony RX10 with 1" sensor is quite expensive, and large and heavy. Using APS-C sensor on a bridge camera would probably make it like a K5 with a DA* 50-135 mm lens attached. ILC has a big advantage when using large sensors, as you don't always have to lug around with a very big heavy lens.

04-26-2014, 06:36 PM	#237
totsmuyco Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Iloilo City Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,276	Originally posted by ElJamoquio It seems like that is a low margin business to me. Dunno. I'm not sure of the volume. In either case I'd guess that there's not going to be another Pentax-branded bridge camera - wouldn't that be a Ricoh? Yes, I believe they said that's what they said. Non-interchangeable lens cameras will be under Ricoh. But who knows. As to profitability, I'm not sure if it shares a big slice of the pie. But one thing I know, a lot of people who want an all in one camera buy the bridge cameras here.

04-29-2014, 12:48 AM	#238
Mr Spocko Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 254	Originally posted by totsmuyco Yes, I believe they said that's what they said. Non-interchangeable lens cameras will be under Ricoh. But who knows. As to profitability, I'm not sure if it shares a big slice of the pie. But one thing I know, a lot of people who want an all in one camera buy the bridge cameras here. No real room for Pentax, Canon, NIkon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus lots of bridge models You can even buy the X-S1 for a steal right now (it's flawed but surprisingly good) RX10 is too expensive I don't see how Pentax can compete here, unless they really did something special

05-05-2014, 07:28 PM	#239
GlassJunkie Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St Petersburg Photos: Albums Posts: 402	Originally posted by Mr Spocko No real room for Pentax, Canon, NIkon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus lots of bridge models You can even buy the X-S1 for a steal right now (it's flawed but surprisingly good) RX10 is too expensive I don't see how Pentax can compete here, unless they really did something special It's ALL about the glass. The Box is nominal....