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03-01-2014, 09:44 AM   #16
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Well, undoubtedly flatter and wider landscapes to shoot from a distance

03-01-2014, 01:30 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by detritus Quote
so... westerners have a narrower perspective?
ROTFL
03-01-2014, 04:35 PM   #18
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35mm and 50mm were often used for reportage and portraits. For reportage because 35mm gives enough of background to illustrate the story without going too much into superfluous detail. 50mm to picture a portrait with a little background around it, yet not overpowering. So the idea is to balance the subject and its context in a reproducible way for the newspaper, and without too much editing (cropping, enlarging, etc.).

Using a wider lens than 35mm meant that a photographer must come much closer if the intention is to make subjects big enough inside the frame, and therefore disturbing the scene. 28mm and wider FoVs cannot give enough objectivity and enough distance at the same time that 35mm and 50mm lenses can.

One reason behind FA31mm was to make a lens where East meets West. It's right in between the 28mm and the 35mm.
03-03-2014, 08:07 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
GR is a Japanese-only cult camera. Nothing more than that. That is why, to brand Ďpuristsí, the GR is 28mm, or, the traditional Japanese normal wide-angle. That is not western wide normal FoV, which is 35mm.

If Ricoh tried to understand the western market, there would be Ricoh GR35, or Ricoh GR40+ (GR50). No doubt about it. But even today, in the USA, Ricoh is ICON series of copiers. A company with a strict Japanese aesthetics and worldview, with only a coulisse in front of them in things that matter to them (copiers). In camera business, they stick to their traditionalist comfort zone. Total foreign camera market share for Ricoh and Pentax together is puny 8%.

Infusion of fresh thinking and B2C thinking outside its comfort zone is what Ricoh needs desperately, if they want to entice customers around the globe to talk about them.

So if they want any lasting success with its GR beyond one niche, the GR it must become 35mm, it must become 50mm. What they do now through image cropping inside firmware is a joke .. but at least one that is, hopefully, readying them for real commitment.

The GR is advertised as 'Be your eyes'. The current GR is the eyesight of the traditional Japanese photography approach. That is why it is 28mm. That is why it only crops to 35mm allowing for a much smaller file. That is the level of politeness western users are greeted with.

On the other hand, even today, Leicaís most appreciated lenses in constant demand are 35mm and 50mm, both Luxes and Crons, and what to speak of Summarites. They canít make enough of them! Why new Fuji's 35mm lens gets so many appraisals even before it's available to buy? And one compact camera that is almost constantly on DPRís top list of cameras is Fuji X100s (before it X100) with its splendid 35mm/f2 lens. That camera when first introduced was so half-baked it barely took photos. But the lens and styling appeal stole people's hearts in the West and it sold in hundreds of thousands. Is that a coincidence, that even a faulty product is cheered for and yet one that is nearly perfect (the GR) is still a niche?

Because the GR with its 28mm lens is nowhere to be seen. Recommended yes, but mostly in the alleys of Shinjuku, among shelves and people who already know everything about it.
While I agree with much of what you're saying, this is rather a long-winded way to say that Ricoh needs a 35 and/or 50mm compact and some additional innovation, along the lines of what Fuji's been up to. Again, I wouldn't say that changing the GR is the way, but expanding upon it is the way. And, arguably they've done this in the past with the GXR series, so it's within reason.

03-05-2014, 11:22 AM   #20
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The X100 success is a due to a combination of factors. The 23mm (35mm in 35mm equiv) lens is a sweet spot on APS-C, but that's only one of them.
Things people I talked to are excited about:
- The lens, as mentioned. It's just a great lens. Don't forget it's a full stop faster than the GR's.
- The optical viewfinder
- The controls
- The sensor - which some say renders images more beautifully than Sony, Canon or Samsung APS-C sensors. I personally think this last one is BS, as the lens is far more important for rendering and colors, but hey, I'm just passing on what people are saying.
So I think it has more to do with the whole experience. The GR is marketed more for enthusiasts than mommies, but enthusiasts like the viewfinders and controls of the X100 better, or so it seems.
A proper Pentax mirrorless (LX-1? lol) could be the answer to this question, without alienating the traditional GR street shooters who don't want their camera to change much, they just want updates but a similar experience to the GRs they know and love.
04-05-2014, 08:44 PM   #21
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The current GR has been around for a while now. Has there been any word on its successor?
04-05-2014, 11:08 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by arthur pappas Quote
The current GR has been around for a while now. Has there been any word on its successor?
are you kidding? It here less than year.
04-07-2014, 06:40 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by i83N Quote
are you kidding? It here less than year.
Good to know. I ordered one a couple days ago and can't wait to get it.

04-07-2014, 08:02 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
If Ricoh tried to understand the western market, there would be Ricoh GR35, or Ricoh GR40+ (GR50).
If for the Western market it would have a zoom.

In fac,t I'd recommend a version with a zoom.

Crop modes would work well if the sensor was upgraded to the 24MP and OVF with multi bright lines was made for it.
04-07-2014, 08:18 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
If for the Western market it would have a zoom.

In fac,t I'd recommend a version with a zoom.

Crop modes would work well if the sensor was upgraded to the 24MP and OVF with multi bright lines was made for it.
The current GR is more a continuation of a tradition than common sense.

A model with a 35mm/2.8 lens paired with 24MP sensor would allow for much more cropping, all up to 75mm, and further (very usable 90mm too). And a quick sweep / panorama mode would enable user to capture variety of wide angle shots, including the 28mm and wider than that. An LCD overlay with bright lines showing crops for 50mm, 75mm and 90mm would tell everything in one glance.

All that at the same size as the current GR, which any zoom lens would compromise as it is impossible to construct it to be so compact and sufficiently fast for an APS-C sensor powered GR. Zooms also drain battery much faster.
04-07-2014, 08:51 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
All that at the same size as the current GR, which any zoom lens would compromise as it is impossible to construct it to be so compact and sufficiently fast for an APS-C sensor powered GR. Zooms also drain battery much faster.
Wouldn't compete on size with the past. A zoom version would compete against.....the competition.

Fixed lens cameras have zero volume sales compared to the rest of the market. Whether is 28mm equivalent or 35mm is almost irrelevant. Clearly Nikon saw fit to do the same. I think they also want wider options. I would be comfortable to crop to 35 or even 47 (especially if the sensor was 24MP) but I love the idea of the 21mm.

GR needs faster AF, better video, a fully functional OVY add-on, and an EVF. Then it's a system.
04-07-2014, 08:58 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Wouldn't compete on size with the past. A zoom version would compete against.....the competition.

Fixed lens cameras have zero volume sales compared to the rest of the market. Whether is 28mm equivalent or 35mm is almost irrelevant. Clearly Nikon saw fit to do the same. I think they also want wider options. I would be comfortable to crop to 35 or even 47 (especially if the sensor was 24MP) but I love the idea of the 21mm.

GR needs faster AF, better video, a fully functional OVY add-on, and an EVF. Then it's a system.
Ricoh had its GX serie which, more or less, was a GR with zoom and viewfinder.
Let's make a GX and next GR with optional EVF.
04-07-2014, 11:04 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Ricoh had its GX serie which, more or less, was a GR with zoom and viewfinder.
Let's make a GX and next GR with optional EVF.
It is possible they are making a GR into a system of the sort.
It is also possible they will miniaturise all lenses, making them mountless, self-retracting lensors.

However you turn it, whatever they bring forward will be technically very complicated solution to develop. They must play it hard, and very advanced, or no one will ever notice them.



---------- Post added 04-08-2014 at 04:09 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Wouldn't compete on size with the past. A zoom version would compete against.....the competition.

Fixed lens cameras have zero volume sales compared to the rest of the market. Whether is 28mm equivalent or 35mm is almost irrelevant. Clearly Nikon saw fit to do the same. I think they also want wider options. I would be comfortable to crop to 35 or even 47 (especially if the sensor was 24MP) but I love the idea of the 21mm.

GR needs faster AF, better video, a fully functional OVY add-on, and an EVF. Then it's a system.
I agree on many points in theory. But Ricoh's only advantage over a myriad of other systems out there would the
- top quality of the lenses (like the GR)
- pocketable size

Any APS-C zoom will bring in additional compromises, like the G1X from Canon. That Canon's little machine is fine, but the lens isn't up to Ricoh's standards; it's waste of the sensor, really. Dollar for dollar, the MX-1 lens is much better than Canon's on G1X. On the other hand, the lens on a Leica X-Vario is stellar. That is the kind of quality worth striving for. Everything else others have already.

However, I definitely see a place for such an APS-C zoom, which may be even branded as Pentax. But the lens must be stellar and battery life decent.

Last edited by Uluru; 04-07-2014 at 11:29 PM.
04-08-2014, 07:17 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It is possible they are making a GR into a system of the sort.
It is also possible they will miniaturise all lenses, making them mountless, self-retracting lensors.

However you turn it, whatever they bring forward will be technically very complicated solution to develop. They must play it hard, and very advanced, or no one will ever notice them.



---------- Post added 04-08-2014 at 04:09 PM ----------



I agree on many points in theory. But Ricoh's only advantage over a myriad of other systems out there would the
- top quality of the lenses (like the GR)
- pocketable size

Any APS-C zoom will bring in additional compromises, like the G1X from Canon. That Canon's little machine is fine, but the lens isn't up to Ricoh's standards; it's waste of the sensor, really. Dollar for dollar, the MX-1 lens is much better than Canon's on G1X. On the other hand, the lens on a Leica X-Vario is stellar. That is the kind of quality worth striving for. Everything else others have already.

However, I definitely see a place for such an APS-C zoom, which may be even branded as Pentax. But the lens must be stellar and battery life decent.
GR-P = prime model

28mm with the 21mm WA and crop modes on a new 24MP sensor

GR-Z = zoom model

The latter does not have to be pocketable. f/3.5.-5.6 2.5x lens would suffice.

Add in a jointly shared optional EVF and a compact tilt/swivel flash/video light add-on and you have a great little system. Battery life for zooms is what it is.

Too much quality doesn't sell and for most, cannot be seen.

Ricoh has good pricing.
04-08-2014, 07:52 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
GR-P = prime model

28mm with the 21mm WA and crop modes on a new 24MP sensor

GR-Z = zoom model

The latter does not have to be pocketable. f/3.5.-5.6 2.5x lens would suffice.

Add in a jointly shared optional EVF and a compact tilt/swivel flash/video light add-on and you have a great little system. Battery life for zooms is what it is.

Too much quality doesn't sell and for most, cannot be seen.

Ricoh has good pricing.
Soooo GR-FFP will be full frame = fuji x200 ?
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