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02-02-2014, 09:52 PM   #271
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QuoteOriginally posted by kosmoejtg Quote
But Pentax have to compete on some level. I wonder what their break even point is for a camera like the K-3? Does Ricoh break out profit for the Pentax brand? It would be interesting to see if it makes them money and if it does where it stands with other Ricoh businesses.
They shall never answer those questions you have asked. It is rather a trade secret.

But my notion above concerns Pentax brand values in general: they were always slow in everything they do. That they may become leader in something new and exciting borders with science fiction. It won't happen — watch Star Trek instead. Unfortunately, that is what many users expected from them after the Ricoh’s takeover, but it will never happen. They may become even more cautious, and even more conservative. No excitement and absolutely no risk in their camp.

Yet, despite their conservatism, they avoid making clutter, which to many means honesty and directness.

02-02-2014, 09:54 PM   #272
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QuoteOriginally posted by kosmoejtg Quote
But Pentax have to compete on some level. I wonder what their break even point is for a camera like the K-3? Does Ricoh break out profit for the Pentax brand? It would be interesting to see if it makes them money and if it does where it stands with other Ricoh businesses.
Nobody knows for sure except for Pentax guys. I have once heard that the K-5 is in the red. I'm not sure about the other models.
02-02-2014, 10:13 PM   #273
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
They shall never answer those questions you have asked. It is rather a trade secret.

But my notion above concerns Pentax brand values in general: they were always slow in everything they do. That they may become leader in something new and exciting borders with science fiction. It won't happen — watch Star Trek instead. Unfortunately, that is what many users expected from them after the Ricoh’s takeover, but it will never happen. They may become even more cautious, and even more conservative. No excitement and absolutely no risk in their camp.

Yet, despite their conservatism, they avoid making clutter, which to many means honesty and directness.
I don't think you can say they are more cautious. The K-3 has some interesting features and is reasonably priced. They must be selling fairly well.
02-02-2014, 10:35 PM   #274
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
They shall never answer those questions you have asked. It is rather a trade secret.

But my notion above concerns Pentax brand values in general: they were always slow in everything they do. That they may become leader in something new and exciting borders with science fiction. It won't happen — watch Star Trek instead. Unfortunately, that is what many users expected from them after the Ricoh’s takeover, but it will never happen. They may become even more cautious, and even more conservative. No excitement and absolutely no risk in their camp.

Yet, despite their conservatism, they avoid making clutter, which to many means honesty and directness.
It sort of shouldn't be since they are a publicly traded company. For individual products yeah, but for the corporate division of cameras it should be pretty transparent.... I say should be because I just pulled up their latest reports and it is not very well laid out and I don't think they have fully integrated the pentax division into their accounting reports.

Their camera division (which I think only includes GR) reported sales of 119 trillion Yen (104 trillion in Japan, 4 trillion in Americas, 6 trillion in EMEA, and 5 trillion in other) and an operating loss of 333 million yen. If that included pentax, surely Americas and EMEA would be greater than or equal to Japan.

02-02-2014, 10:54 PM   #275
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
It sort of shouldn't be since they are a publicly traded company. For individual products yeah, but for the corporate division of cameras it should be pretty transparent.... I say should be because I just pulled up their latest reports and it is not very well laid out and I don't think they have fully integrated the pentax division into their accounting reports.

Their camera division (which I think only includes GR) reported sales of 119 trillion Yen (104 trillion in Japan, 4 trillion in Americas, 6 trillion in EMEA, and 5 trillion in other) and an operating loss of 333 million yen. If that included pentax, surely Americas and EMEA would be greater than or equal to Japan.
119 trillion yen? That's too much. How did you get that? Ricoh's combined sales are 1.6 trillion yen from the first through the third quarter in fiscal year 2013.
02-02-2014, 10:59 PM   #276
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My bad, off by a factor of 10! But 120 Billion yen

http://www.ricoh.com/IR/financial_data/financial_result/data/26_3/flash.pdf
02-02-2014, 11:10 PM   #277
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
My bad, off by a factor of 10! But 120 Billion yen
That's right. The accumulated sales through the third quarter for "Other" segment are roughly 120 billion yen, shown in page 12. That "Other" segment includes Pentax.
02-02-2014, 11:27 PM   #278
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
It sort of shouldn't be since they are a publicly traded company. For individual products yeah, but for the corporate division of cameras it should be pretty transparent.... I say should be because I just pulled up their latest reports and it is not very well laid out and I don't think they have fully integrated the pentax division into their accounting reports.

Their camera division (which I think only includes GR) reported sales of 119 trillion Yen (104 trillion in Japan, 4 trillion in Americas, 6 trillion in EMEA, and 5 trillion in other) and an operating loss of 333 million yen. If that included pentax, surely Americas and EMEA would be greater than or equal to Japan.
And, I'm also wondering how you got "104 trillion in Japan, 4 trillion in Americas, 6 trillion in EMEA, and 5 trillion in other". I think it should be all billion, not trillion, as is shown in page A1. At least, domestic sales are 7 times more than overseas. But I'm not sure how much digital cameras account for in that "Other" segment.

02-03-2014, 01:08 AM   #279
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
That's right. The accumulated sales through the third quarter for "Other" segment are roughly 120 billion yen, shown in page 12. That "Other" segment includes Pentax.
Keyword: includes. It also includes the financial leasing business and who knows what other.
They couldn't possibly sell over 1 billion USD worth of GRs.
02-03-2014, 01:13 AM   #280
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
And, I'm also wondering how you got "104 trillion in Japan, 4 trillion in Americas, 6 trillion in EMEA, and 5 trillion in other". I think it should be all billion, not trillion, as is shown in page A1. At least, domestic sales are 7 times more than overseas. But I'm not sure how much digital cameras account for in that "Other" segment.
Those numbers are fine, yet small.
They do earn money from camera sales, which is nice. In Ricoh's terms, that what Imaging part of the company does is a hobby. And it will stay within those borders of a safe backyard garage business.

About the CP+, many around here have big expectations. But never bet on either Pentax or Ricoh to excite you: nothing earthshaking or loud will be announced. Just a continuation of already established, with a low profile announcement.

They will bring us walls covered in colourful Q7, and absolutely not that thing many are expecting patiently for years.

Think safe, think conservative, and you got it right. Which isn't so bad at all.

Last edited by Uluru; 02-03-2014 at 03:54 AM.
02-03-2014, 04:06 AM   #281
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Think safe, think conservative, and you got it right. Which isn't so bad at all.
Given hint of emerging markets recession on the wind (as developed markets finally experience real economic recovery and normal interest rates) perhaps Ricoh is correct.
02-03-2014, 04:20 AM   #282
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Until now, is a total silence from all players about CP+. And even rumors are very scarce. And there are only 9 days left.

Looks like a contest. Who is the last to announce the big news.
02-03-2014, 04:25 AM   #283
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I like the idea of F2.8-4.5. It means that in low light, where I would use shorter focal lenghts to allow longer shutter speeds, I would also have a larger aperture. Additonally, the variable aperture will probably translate into a lower price and better optical quality since a lens like that is a lot less complex. I bet this lens will be excellent.
02-03-2014, 04:27 AM   #284
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Well, we had some product launches - and Ricoh Imaging will break the silence, soon. Oops... I guess they will
02-03-2014, 04:44 AM   #285
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Given hint of emerging markets recession on the wind (as developed markets finally experience real economic recovery and normal interest rates) perhaps Ricoh is correct.
Their behaviour is always same, always conservative slow motion with inaudible announcements, regardless of economic situation. So I cannot credit them with any special medal for thoughtfulness. It is just the way they are.
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