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02-05-2014, 08:48 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Hoya merely consumed the entrails.
Yep. They bought the Happy Meal just to get the the toy and threw burger, fries and pop away.

02-05-2014, 08:59 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Aside from the K10D what has Pentax done in the last 15 years???

The K3. And that's at least half Ricoh.
I think you just forgot a few other nice cameras, I'll mention the K100D and the 645D before I open my camera bag and give my wonderful little K-5 a well-deserved little pat.
02-05-2014, 09:09 AM - 1 Like   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Aside from the K10D what has Pentax done in the last 15 years???

The K3. And that's at least half Ricoh.
K-x was quite groundbreaking in terms of low light performance, not just for Pentax but for all APS-C cameras.
02-05-2014, 09:09 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
I think you just forgot a few other nice cameras, I'll mention the K100D
Evolution of the K10D
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
and the 645D
K7 with a big sensor
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
before I open my camera bag and give my wonderful little K-5
a very nice Sony sensor and a lot of work on the imaging engine wringing IQ out of it, but no progress on AF, shutter, bus, flash sync or any of the other things vastly improved on the K3 (and I know they still need to do the flash sync)
QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
a well-deserved little pat.
Pentax had a lot of nice projects in the pipeline that Hoya halted. The tsunami and Thai flooding didn't help anything of course, but I've always believed that the D600 happened when it did because the government and insurance companies offered free capital to correct the damage to sensor mfg plants, which was used to pull forward the breakeven point for FF on a Return-on-Invested-Capital basis. Pentax had nothing in the tank for that.

02-05-2014, 09:23 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They aren't stupid and they aren't vain. They're doing what their market research tells them will yield the highest profit over the intermediate term. If the Pentax brand had such powerful, magic cache' they would have released the Pentax GR. Pentax doesn't have positive brand recognition any more. It means nothing outside our little community.

Pentax destroyed the brand from the inside all by itself, starting in 1988. Just look at the crappy, ugly, plastic products!! Sure - there was a gem in there every once in a while, but most of the time they exploited their history at our expense. FA-J lenses??? HAHAHAH!! Dealer support?? They should sell us because we're Pentax. I swear, I know 2 retired former Pentax Reps who went to Canon in the 80's and I know why.

Aside from the K10D what has Pentax done in the last 15 years???

The K3. And that's at least half Ricoh.

Hoya merely consumed the entrails.

I don't like it - but blaming Ricoh doesn't do anyone any good.

I do care. Unfortunately there aren't enough people like me left in the world to keep the brand name relevant and marketable, and certainly not enough between 25 and 54. Today doesn't really matter. 2024 matters, when today's 25-44 are 35-54.

Pentax is K-nmount, Q and 645. Forget about Ricoh around the edges. Pentax as a brand is the money shot.
Mono...Pentax outside of our little cache gets me the following comments when I am out and about.

"Pentax, my first camera was a Pentax".
"Pentax, they make great cameras, I didn't know of the K**"
"Wow, this Pentax feels GREAT".
"Those pictures..did they come from a Nikon?..Pentax? Wow!"
"Those pictures..did they come from a Canon?..Pentax? Wow!"

Everywhere I go, I get positive comments about Pentax.

So whatever "market research" you are quoting is wrong. Plain wrong.
Maybe in your neck of the woods.

Again and again, so many people want Pentaxians to roll over and give up.

It won't happen that way.

Sometimes Mono, I wonder if you are a paid Ricoh person.
Did they give you some promo material?
A free camera? Lens maybe?
I have seen a few Pentaxians with little "gifts", and their loyalty can be bought, mine can't.

Have you never fought for something solely based on passion?
Fight along side us, if you believe in Pentax.

Don't keep making excuses for Ricoh.
02-05-2014, 09:24 AM   #96
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What I like better than the Pentax brand are certain Pentax products; losing the first would make me upset, but the latter would be really bad.
I cannot understand the "no Pentax, no sale" people. What do they like about Pentax? Only the name? Is that the only thing keeping them around?
02-05-2014, 09:33 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Evolution of the K10D.
No, the K100D came first.
02-05-2014, 09:43 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Tell this to Apple funs.
They're like their own little cult...

02-05-2014, 09:50 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by gazonk Quote
No, the K100D came first.
My bad. By a few months.

Since both were released in 2006 but production of the K100D ended in 2007 and the K10D in 2008, and since K100D had a 6Mp snesor and K10D a 10Mp sensor plus more professional feature set I've considered the K100 a test bed and K10 the real deal - the product that treally excited the market and put Pentax back in the review sites. So if I conced the K100D, does that change in any way my main point? What has Pentax done for the last 15 years?

Then again, at the time I used an Olympus E20-n and though I still had some film lenses I didn't buy a Pentax until late 2007.
02-05-2014, 09:57 AM - 1 Like   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Tell this to Apple funs.
I use Apple only because they are the only ones who sell Mac OS X and iOS. Once upon a time, before Steve Jobs tricked Gil Amelio into paying him $429 million to stage a boardroom coup, Apple had sold licenses to several cloners. The clones were generally cheaper and better than the crap that Apple was selling at the time. Steve quickly pulled the plug after his coup, even going so far as to buy Power Computing to get out of the license deal.

It took 10 years and a switch to Intel processors to really turn Apple around, and it was a little media player, before it mutated into a cell phone, that became the cash cow, not computers.

02-05-2014, 10:05 AM - 1 Like   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by LaurenOE Quote
Mono...Pentax outside of our little cache gets me the following comments when I am out and about.

"Pentax, my first camera was a Pentax".
"Pentax, they make great cameras, I didn't know of the K**"
"Wow, this Pentax feels GREAT".
"Those pictures..did they come from a Nikon?..Pentax? Wow!"
"Those pictures..did they come from a Canon?..Pentax? Wow!"

Everywhere I go, I get positive comments about Pentax.

So whatever "market research" you are quoting is wrong. Plain wrong.
Maybe in your neck of the woods.

Again and again, so many people want Pentaxians to roll over and give up.

It won't happen that way.

Sometimes Mono, I wonder if you are a paid Ricoh person.
Did they give you some promo material?
A free camera? Lens maybe?
I have seen a few Pentaxians with little "gifts", and their loyalty can be bought, mine can't.

Have you never fought for something solely based on passion?
Fight along side us, if you believe in Pentax.

Don't keep making excuses for Ricoh.
Oh for goodness' sake. I forgot Pentax did such a good job managing the brand before Hoya came along. Or Ricoh. I am passionate about Pentax. I can't see any other way to keep the camera ETHOS alive. I probably should have gotten out while I could - then I could have a D800 and I wouldn't have to put up with all the funny looks.

Re-read the last sentence. K-mount, Q and 645 are Pentax. Period. Ain't gonna change. The DNA is all still there.

All I'm saying is don't sweat the small stuff. Paint is small stuff.

What I believe was formed long before anything came from Denver - and I was extremely critical and still am critical of RIAC in many ways.

I'm a realist and a student of the modern world. Harvard MBA's don't give a damn about anything you mentioned. They con't care about a l;ittle paint on the back - or even the front - of a product. They've learned people quickly forget - or eventually they die. So they either constantly freshen the brand (about every seven years) or they kill it and start over if it has negative responses in the selling demographic.

"My first camera was a Pentax" is a negative response to a Harvard MBA. "Wow!! Do they still make cameras?" is a negative response. "My next camera will be a _______________ " is a positive response, and they decide what word to put there and how to get people to say it. If Pentax has no current value except to old people and all the negatives in the dealer community associated with Pentax's treatment of them (NOT Hoya - PENTAX!!) all the branding on earth won't help if no one will carry it, so you change the name.

To a Harvard MBA, nothing you wrote couldn't be said with Ricoh instead of Pentax.

But again, IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.

Pentax is K-mount, Q and 645. Period.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-05-2014 at 01:24 PM.
02-05-2014, 10:16 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Re-read the last sentence. All I'm saying is don't sweat the small stuff.

What I believe was formed long before anything came from Denver - and I was extremely critical and still am critical of RIAC in many ways.

I'm a realist and a student of the modern world. Harvard MBA's don't give a damn about anything you mentioned. They con't care about a l;ittle paint on the back - or even the front - of a product. They've learned people quickly forget - or eventually they die. So they either constantly freshen the brand (about every seven years) or they kill it and start over if it has negative responses in the selling demographic.

"My first camera was a Pentax" is a negative response to a Harvard MBA. "Wow!! Do they still make cameras?" is a negative response. "My next camera will be a _______________ " is a positive response, and they decide what word to put there and how to get people to say it. If Pentax has no current value except to old people and all the negatives in the dealer community associated with Pentax's treatment of them (NOT Hoya - PENTAX!!) all the branding on earth won't help if no one will carry it, so you change the name.

To a Harvard MBA, nothing you wrote couldn't be said with Ricoh instead of Pentax.

But again, IT ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN.

Pentax is K-mount, Q and 645. Period.
When I think Pentax I think DSLR (camera with a PENTAprism) and I think if Ricoh focused usage of the brand on serious photography sector of DSLRs and ILCs they have a lot of potential to do good things for the brand's image.
02-05-2014, 10:19 AM   #103
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Let's hope this is NOT gonna change with next DSLR model.

Last edited by Zygonyx; 02-05-2014 at 01:09 PM.
02-05-2014, 10:30 AM - 3 Likes   #104
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I have been through this before. I grew up on a farm. My dad always drove Ford trucks and we also had a blue Ford tractor. In the 90's Ford Motor Company sold their agriculture division to Fiat. Over several years time Fiat removed the Ford branding, replacing it with the New Holland moniker (New Holland was a subsidiary of Ford's agriculture division that produced forage equipment). It did not happen all at once. First the New Holland name was added to the tractors in small letters below the word FORD. After a couple years they traded places and New Holland moved to the top with a small FORD below. Next the FORD was dropped all together. Finally the iconic blue oval on the front of each tractor was replaced by a newly created blue New Holland symbol.

I love Pentax, and I hope the name does not go away. I will be disappointed if these new WG's are branded Ricoh. If they put "Pentax" on the lens however, it will make me feel a little better (for that matter I think it would be a good move to start putting "Pentax" on the lenses of the GR's).

Who knows what the long term branding stagey will be? I sure don't, but I hope it includes the PENTAX name in prominent places. If it doesn't? Well, I will be disappointed. I will even be upset, and then I will get over it and buy a Ricoh K-1. After all, it is the product I love. The name has meaning, but that meaning is an association to the product.

If the Pentax name goes away I will get over it and continue to buy nee Pentax products. I know because another company whose products I love did this to me before... and right now I am in the market to buy a blue tractor.
02-05-2014, 10:33 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
I use Apple only because they are the only ones who sell Mac OS X and iOS. Once upon a time, before Steve Jobs tricked Gil Amelio into paying him $429 million to stage a boardroom coup, Apple had sold licenses to several cloners. The clones were generally cheaper and better than the crap that Apple was selling at the time. Steve quickly pulled the plug after his coup, even going so far as to buy Power Computing to get out of the license deal.

It took 10 years and a switch to Intel processors to really turn Apple around, and it was a little media player, before it mutated into a cell phone, that became the cash cow, not computers.
I wasn't talking about computers or cellphones. Was a response to Monochrome post, who said that young peoples don't have brand loyalty.

Rangercarp, good story.
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