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02-05-2014, 10:50 AM   #106
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I want to give an example.

Zeiss. One of the oldest optical company, and probably the only one in that age, that keep the brand name, despite all historical troubles. Is this name known only for people interested in optical devices? No. It's so known, that even people that has no interest in technical knows it. Is so known that in my country, Zeiss became an adjective, defining extremely good and durable things.

Brand changing is a new fashion in some peoples minds who wants to reinvent the marketing, but is always a mistake to replace a known and reputed name in the market, with a new, and unknown one. This will require a lot of money for advertising, and a lot of time to gain the costumer's trust. Not counting the disappointment of former costumers.

02-05-2014, 10:55 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They aren't stupid and they aren't vain. They're doing what their market research tells them will yield the highest profit over the intermediate term. If the Pentax brand had such powerful, magic cache' they would have released the Pentax GR. Pentax doesn't have positive brand recognition any more. It means nothing outside our little community.

Pentax destroyed the brand from the inside all by itself, starting in 1988. Just look at the crappy, ugly, plastic products!! Sure - there was a gem in there every once in a while, but most of the time they exploited their history at our expense. FA-J lenses??? HAHAHAH!! Dealer support?? They should sell us because we're Pentax. I swear, I know 2 retired former Pentax Reps who went to Canon in the 80's and I know why.

Aside from the K10D what has Pentax done in the last 15 years???

The K3. And that's at least half Ricoh.

Hoya merely consumed the entrails.

I don't like it - but blaming Ricoh doesn't do anyone any good.

I do care. Unfortunately there aren't enough people like me left in the world to keep the brand name relevant and marketable, and certainly not enough between 25 and 54. Today doesn't really matter. 2024 matters, when today's 25-44 are 35-54.

Pentax is K-nmount, Q and 645. Forget about Ricoh around the edges. Pentax as a brand is the money shot.
Monochrome is absolutely right. The Pentax name's perception is "old film stuff". Once when I was taking pics with my K20D a friend asked me, "is that your film camera?", and he wasn't joking.

The name Ricoh, on the other hand, right now has a perception of being cool and avant-garde.

I'm new to Pentax so I don't have decades of loyalty to the brand, of course. I sort of can understand those who do. But, old people aren't going to keep the name Pentax in business for too long.

Also - if you're going to be loyal about a name, at least make it really a really cool one like Leica...
02-05-2014, 10:59 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I want to give an example.

Zeiss. One of the oldest optical company, and probably the only one in that age, that keep the brand name, despite all historical troubles. Is this name known only for people interested in optical devices? No. It's so known, that even people that has no interest in technical knows it. Is so known that in my country, Zeiss became an adjective, defining extremely good and durable things.

Brand changing is a new fashion in some peoples minds who wants to reinvent the marketing, but is always a mistake to replace a known and reputed name in the market, with a new, and unknown one. This will require a lot of money for advertising, and a lot of time to gain the costumer's trust. Not counting the disappointment of former costumers.
The only "Zeiss" I have is the branding on my Sony DSC-P200's lens. Not a very good lens at all.

I sorta agree with your point... but Pentax isn't Zeiss. It's kind of like Hyundai saying, "Ferrari has kept their name for years, and so has Lanborghini, so we better not change ours!"... Buick might actually be a better comparison for the Pentax name, perception wise
02-05-2014, 11:00 AM   #109
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I wasn't talking about computers or cellphones. Was a response to Monochrome post, who said that young peoples don't have brand loyalty.

Rangercarp, good story.
That isn't what I said at all. What I said is old people's product loyalty doesn't matter - because they're going to die. Young people's product loyalty matters and your Apple response proves my point - right up to the time that the young people get a bit older. Then Samsung gets cool with the incoming batch of young people.

If all you got is, "Pentax still makes cameras? I started on a K1000 40 years ago!!" you got nuthin' so you might as well change the name.

I gave my daughter a new Pentax camera because she likes the color profile of my photos, but she only knows the Canon 5D as a branded product. Her employer owns gobs of them.

02-05-2014, 11:16 AM   #110
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An interesting poll would be to see how many people, both photographers and non-photographers, recognize the names Pentax or Ricoh. When I bought my Pentax camera last year, my wife was not familiar with the name Pentax, but was familiar with Ricoh from working in the medical industry where their imaging products were used.
02-05-2014, 11:29 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
I want to give an example.

Zeiss. One of the oldest optical company, and probably the only one in that age, that keep the brand name, despite all historical troubles. Is this name known only for people interested in optical devices? No. It's so known, that even people that has no interest in technical knows it. Is so known that in my country, Zeiss became an adjective, defining extremely good and durable things.

Brand changing is a new fashion in some peoples minds who wants to reinvent the marketing, but is always a mistake to replace a known and reputed name in the market, with a new, and unknown one. This will require a lot of money for advertising, and a lot of time to gain the costumer's trust. Not counting the disappointment of former costumers.


They'll always be Asahiflex to me
02-05-2014, 11:34 AM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kenntak Quote
An interesting poll would be to see how many people, both photographers and non-photographers, recognize the names Pentax or Ricoh. When I bought my Pentax camera last year, my wife was not familiar with the name Pentax, but was familiar with Ricoh from working in the medical industry where their imaging products were used.
Such a poll can be interesting, but cannot be made by us. But we can make a poll here like this. Who agrees that the name Pentax be replaced with Ricoh, and who's not.
02-05-2014, 11:35 AM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Such a poll can be interesting, but cannot be made by us. But we can make a poll here like this. Who agrees that the name Pentax be replaced with Ricoh, and who's not.
I think the results are fairly predictable.

02-05-2014, 11:37 AM   #114
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And better, to send the results to Ricoh.
02-05-2014, 11:47 AM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
The name Ricoh, on the other hand, right now has a perception of being cool and avant-garde.
What?!?!?!? It has about the same perception as Xerox or Brother. Business copiers and printers are about as cool and avant-garde as 2x4.
02-05-2014, 11:55 AM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
What?!?!?!? It has about the same perception as Xerox or Brother. Business copiers and printers are about as cool and avant-garde as 2x4.
I'm talking about cameras.
02-05-2014, 12:01 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I'm talking about cameras.
Ricoh is certainly less known than Pentax in cameras... the people who know what a "Ricoh" camera is already know what "Pentax" is, too. Not sure what the name change would accomplish other than pissing off the customers so that the corporate exec's feel better about a name.
02-05-2014, 12:25 PM   #118
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Ricoh is certainly less known than Pentax in cameras among people who have grandkids...
There, fixed it for you

I know a lot of people are aware of the Ricoh GR and wouldn't mind having one. The name Ricoh has been well liked in the street shooting scene for a long time now.

Soccer moms, of course, don't know either Pentax or Ricoh. They might know Pentax because their dad or grandpa has/had one...
02-05-2014, 12:53 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
There, fixed it for you

I know a lot of people are aware of the Ricoh GR and wouldn't mind having one. The name Ricoh has been well liked in the street shooting scene for a long time now.

Soccer moms, of course, don't know either Pentax or Ricoh. They might know Pentax because their dad or grandpa has/had one...
In my opinion, to modify a quote is inadmissible. And your entire post is offensive to many people.
02-05-2014, 12:53 PM   #120
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Of all the people you know, what percentage are aware of Ricoh and not aware of Pentax?
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