Pentax vs Ricoh Brand Name Clarification

**RobA_Oz** · 02-06-2014, 03:16 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Zygonyx

+ 1000
Today's clarification is probably just a temporary measure.

Everything's temporary on a geological timescale...

JPT · 02-06-2014, 03:54 PM

Naming compacts Ricoh and DSLRs Pentax was always on the cards from the minute the takeover was announced. It makes perfect sense. The name Pentax sells DSLRs but not compacts - the WG series was probably the best of the bunch. Ricoh has managed to create a high end niche in compacts which sell well above the average. This is why the acquisition made sense in the first place.

But ultimately neither brand is strong enough to sell cameras on brand value alone, like Canon, Nikon and Sony. Ricoh will succeed or fail based on the quality of their products and marketing from now on. The past is largely irrelevant.

Despite this, their evident commitment to K- mount, 645 and the GR shows quite a lot of respect for their loyal users. And the film duplicator accessory further shows that they want to cater to their long-standing customers.

dansamy · 02-06-2014, 04:12 PM

What does a film duplicator do? Explain it real slow!

**RobA_Oz** · 02-06-2014, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by JPT

Naming compacts Ricoh and DSLRs Pentax was always on the cards from the minute the takeover was announced. It makes perfect sense. The name Pentax sells DSLRs but not compacts - the WG series was probably the best of the bunch. Ricoh has managed to create a high end niche in compacts which sell well above the average. This is why the acquisition made sense in the first place.

But ultimately neither brand is strong enough to sell cameras on brand value alone, like Canon, Nikon and Sony. Ricoh will succeed or fail based on the quality of their products and marketing from now on. The past is largely irrelevant.

Despite this, their evident commitment to K- mount, 645 and the GR shows quite a lot of respect for their loyal users. And the film duplicator accessory further shows that they want to cater to their long-standing customers.

I mostly agree with the points you make, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that a lot of younger people have either shot film in school or have progressed from the Holga movement to shooting older film DSLRs, so Pentax is well-known and respected to them. So, the past may be irrelevant to new markets in developing economies, but not necessarily to markets in established economies. "Largely", of course, is ill-defined (anywhere between 51 and 100%).

With the re-branding of the WG series, and the discontinuation of the bridge (X-5) and enthusiast (MX-1) fixed lens Pentaxes, I can't help wondering where Ricoh sees the future for these types of camera. Perhaps development of the GR into a range will provide the answer, just as other manufacturers like Sony and Olympus have done. For this market, the branding is probably irrelevant.

**boriscleto** · 02-06-2014, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by dansamy

What does a film duplicator do? Explain it real slow!

It's just a bellows unit that allows you to use your DSLR to copy film images. It will work with Slides & Negatives, 35mm & medium format.

Alizarine · 02-06-2014, 05:27 PM

The film duplicator is interesting though with the right know-how maybe one can make a DIY of that...

dansamy · 02-06-2014, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

It's just a bellows unit that allows you to use your DSLR to copy film images. It will work with Slides & Negatives, 35mm & medium format.

So if you have a box of old negatives around, you can take a digital picture of them & then develop a positive file from the negative file in a processing program?

**woodywesty** · 02-06-2014, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Boris_Akunin

Can't we just let the old names die instead of disgracing them with P&Ss?

Which "old names"?

---------- Post added 02-06-14 at 07:11 PM ----------

Originally posted by Daikokuya

One more.

One of the reasons why Ricoh bought Pentax is that Ricoh wanted to strengthen consumer business which it deems as weak or at least to be bolstered. I'm not a marketing guy, but if Ricoh keeps its word, it would not be out of focus to assume that Pentax is going to be overlapped by Ricoh.

Ok... so you're saying that Ricoh bought Pentax to strengthen their consumer business which was weak or in need of help. And to achieve that they would then take their weak Ricoh products and overlap the Pentax products........... hummm....
Maybe if "overlap" means more of their products ended up with the name Pentax on them.

**boriscleto** · 02-06-2014, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by dansamy

So if you have a box of old negatives around, you can take a digital picture of them & then develop a positive file from the negative file in a processing program?

How they handle negatives is what I'm most anxious to see. Slide duplicators have been around for years, but this one claims to be able to duplicate negatives. Firmware update for the SLR?

Daikokuya · 02-06-2014, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by woodywesty

Ok... so you're saying that Ricoh bought Pentax to strengthen their consumer business which was weak or in need of help. And to achieve that they would then take their weak Ricoh products and overlap the Pentax products........... hummm....
Maybe if "overlap" means more of their products ended up with the name Pentax on them.

Just a few things:
1. Ricoh has already changed the company's name from "Pentax Ricoh Imaging" to "Ricoh Imaging", and the brand logo from "PENTAX A RICOH COMPANY" to just "RICOH".

2. "PENTAX" logo has been replaced by "RICOH" on the back of the K-3.

3. Even Pentax's road sign has been taken away around Ricoh Imaging headquarters in Tokyo.

Ricoh's aim is clear: Ricoh is the company which owns Pentax as a brand.

dansamy · 02-06-2014, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by boriscleto

How they handle negatives is what I'm most anxious to see. Slide duplicators have been around for years, but this one claims to be able to duplicate negatives. Firmware update for the SLR?

Negative duplication would be more complicated, right? Because the colors are all switched & you have to develop it into a positive, right? I'll be honest, I never quite understood the magic behind sending off a roll of 35mm & getting back a set if negatives & a set of positive color prints. Which I know now were usually considered "proofs". Learned that pretty recently!

ElJamoquio · 02-06-2014, 07:35 PM

Not tough at all for a computer to do.

**monochrome** · 02-06-2014, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by Daikokuya

Just a few things:
1. Ricoh has already changed the company's name from "Pentax Ricoh Imaging" to "Ricoh Imaging", and the brand logo from "PENTAX A RICOH COMPANY" to just "RICOH".

2. "PENTAX" logo has been replaced by "RICOH" on the back of the K-3.

3. Even Pentax's road sign has been taken away around Ricoh Imaging headquarters in Tokyo.

Ricoh's aim is clear: Ricoh is the company which owns Pentax as a brand.

However, Ricoh Imaging Americas Co, Ltd. recently erected a large display sign at street level of their downtown Denver, CO offices that simply says PENTAX in bold red letters.

Corporations - especially global corporations want brand synergy whenever they can get it. IMHO there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ricoh Imaging owning a brand or more and Pentax being one brand name. It still means interchangeable lens camera manufactured in various lens mounts.

I suspect as time goes by there will actually be more brand names owned by Ricoh Imaging.

dansamy · 02-06-2014, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Not tough at all for a computer to do.

Well, yeah. I guess that would be true. And there's probably already methods that do exactly that. I just wouldn't know about them because I'm very much new to photography beyond just "point & click".

Daikokuya · 02-06-2014, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

However, Ricoh Imaging Americas Co, Ltd. recently erected a large display sign at street level of their downtown Denver, CO offices that simply says PENTAX in bold red letters.

Corporations - especially global corporations want brand synergy whenever they can get it. IMHO there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ricoh Imaging owning a brand or more and Pentax being one brand name. It still means interchangeable lens camera manufactured in various lens mounts.

I suspect as time goes by there will actually be more brand names owned by Ricoh Imaging.

I'm not saying that Ricoh will completely abandon Pentax's name. You can see a big red "PENTAX" logo on the top of a building in Ricoh Imaging headquarters in Tokyo. It's still alive, though the company's name has changed.

I'm not sure if Ricoh will buy another camera brand. Decades ago, there were a bunch of camera makers who adopted the K-mount like Chinon or Cosina. Even Ricoh's SLR was the K-mount. But all are gone now. Samsung's mount is interchangeable with the K-mount, but it's not realistic that Ricoh buys Samsung's camera segment based on the current performance of two companies.

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02-06-2014, 03:16 PM - 1 Like	#76
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,200	Originally posted by Zygonyx + 1000 Today's clarification is probably just a temporary measure. Everything's temporary on a geological timescale...

02-06-2014, 03:54 PM	#77
JPT Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tokyo Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,821	Naming compacts Ricoh and DSLRs Pentax was always on the cards from the minute the takeover was announced. It makes perfect sense. The name Pentax sells DSLRs but not compacts - the WG series was probably the best of the bunch. Ricoh has managed to create a high end niche in compacts which sell well above the average. This is why the acquisition made sense in the first place. But ultimately neither brand is strong enough to sell cameras on brand value alone, like Canon, Nikon and Sony. Ricoh will succeed or fail based on the quality of their products and marketing from now on. The past is largely irrelevant. Despite this, their evident commitment to K- mount, 645 and the GR shows quite a lot of respect for their loyal users. And the film duplicator accessory further shows that they want to cater to their long-standing customers.

02-06-2014, 04:12 PM	#78
dansamy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,450	What does a film duplicator do? Explain it real slow!

02-06-2014, 04:36 PM	#79
RobA_Oz Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tasmania, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,200	Originally posted by JPT Naming compacts Ricoh and DSLRs Pentax was always on the cards from the minute the takeover was announced. It makes perfect sense. The name Pentax sells DSLRs but not compacts - the WG series was probably the best of the bunch. Ricoh has managed to create a high end niche in compacts which sell well above the average. This is why the acquisition made sense in the first place. But ultimately neither brand is strong enough to sell cameras on brand value alone, like Canon, Nikon and Sony. Ricoh will succeed or fail based on the quality of their products and marketing from now on. The past is largely irrelevant. Despite this, their evident commitment to K- mount, 645 and the GR shows quite a lot of respect for their loyal users. And the film duplicator accessory further shows that they want to cater to their long-standing customers. I mostly agree with the points you make, but we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that a lot of younger people have either shot film in school or have progressed from the Holga movement to shooting older film DSLRs, so Pentax is well-known and respected to them. So, the past may be irrelevant to new markets in developing economies, but not necessarily to markets in established economies. "Largely", of course, is ill-defined (anywhere between 51 and 100%). With the re-branding of the WG series, and the discontinuation of the bridge (X-5) and enthusiast (MX-1) fixed lens Pentaxes, I can't help wondering where Ricoh sees the future for these types of camera. Perhaps development of the GR into a range will provide the answer, just as other manufacturers like Sony and Olympus have done. For this market, the branding is probably irrelevant.

02-06-2014, 04:39 PM	#80
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by dansamy What does a film duplicator do? Explain it real slow! It's just a bellows unit that allows you to use your DSLR to copy film images. It will work with Slides & Negatives, 35mm & medium format.

02-06-2014, 05:27 PM	#81
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	The film duplicator is interesting though with the right know-how maybe one can make a DIY of that...

02-06-2014, 05:32 PM	#82
dansamy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,450	Originally posted by boriscleto It's just a bellows unit that allows you to use your DSLR to copy film images. It will work with Slides & Negatives, 35mm & medium format. So if you have a box of old negatives around, you can take a digital picture of them & then develop a positive file from the negative file in a processing program?

02-06-2014, 06:02 PM	#83
woodywesty Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Northern Wisconsin Posts: 725	Originally posted by Boris_Akunin Can't we just let the old names die instead of disgracing them with P&Ss? Which "old names"? ---------- Post added 02-06-14 at 07:11 PM ---------- Originally posted by Daikokuya One more. One of the reasons why Ricoh bought Pentax is that Ricoh wanted to strengthen consumer business which it deems as weak or at least to be bolstered. I'm not a marketing guy, but if Ricoh keeps its word, it would not be out of focus to assume that Pentax is going to be overlapped by Ricoh. Ok... so you're saying that Ricoh bought Pentax to strengthen their consumer business which was weak or in need of help. And to achieve that they would then take their weak Ricoh products and overlap the Pentax products........... hummm.... Maybe if "overlap" means more of their products ended up with the name Pentax on them.

02-06-2014, 06:34 PM	#84
boriscleto Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: North Syracuse, NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 16,475	Originally posted by dansamy So if you have a box of old negatives around, you can take a digital picture of them & then develop a positive file from the negative file in a processing program? How they handle negatives is what I'm most anxious to see. Slide duplicators have been around for years, but this one claims to be able to duplicate negatives. Firmware update for the SLR?

02-06-2014, 06:43 PM	#85
Daikokuya Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 210	Originally posted by woodywesty Ok... so you're saying that Ricoh bought Pentax to strengthen their consumer business which was weak or in need of help. And to achieve that they would then take their weak Ricoh products and overlap the Pentax products........... hummm.... Maybe if "overlap" means more of their products ended up with the name Pentax on them. Just a few things: 1. Ricoh has already changed the company's name from "Pentax Ricoh Imaging" to "Ricoh Imaging", and the brand logo from "PENTAX A RICOH COMPANY" to just "RICOH". 2. "PENTAX" logo has been replaced by "RICOH" on the back of the K-3. 3. Even Pentax's road sign has been taken away around Ricoh Imaging headquarters in Tokyo. Ricoh's aim is clear: Ricoh is the company which owns Pentax as a brand.

02-06-2014, 07:29 PM	#86
dansamy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,450	Originally posted by boriscleto How they handle negatives is what I'm most anxious to see. Slide duplicators have been around for years, but this one claims to be able to duplicate negatives. Firmware update for the SLR? Negative duplication would be more complicated, right? Because the colors are all switched & you have to develop it into a positive, right? I'll be honest, I never quite understood the magic behind sending off a roll of 35mm & getting back a set if negatives & a set of positive color prints. Which I know now were usually considered "proofs". Learned that pretty recently!

02-06-2014, 07:35 PM	#87
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Not tough at all for a computer to do.

02-06-2014, 07:44 PM	#88
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Daikokuya Just a few things: 1. Ricoh has already changed the company's name from "Pentax Ricoh Imaging" to "Ricoh Imaging", and the brand logo from "PENTAX A RICOH COMPANY" to just "RICOH". 2. "PENTAX" logo has been replaced by "RICOH" on the back of the K-3. 3. Even Pentax's road sign has been taken away around Ricoh Imaging headquarters in Tokyo. Ricoh's aim is clear: Ricoh is the company which owns Pentax as a brand. However, Ricoh Imaging Americas Co, Ltd. recently erected a large display sign at street level of their downtown Denver, CO offices that simply says PENTAX in bold red letters. Corporations - especially global corporations want brand synergy whenever they can get it. IMHO there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ricoh Imaging owning a brand or more and Pentax being one brand name. It still means interchangeable lens camera manufactured in various lens mounts. I suspect as time goes by there will actually be more brand names owned by Ricoh Imaging.

02-06-2014, 07:46 PM	#89
dansamy Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,450	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Not tough at all for a computer to do. Well, yeah. I guess that would be true. And there's probably already methods that do exactly that. I just wouldn't know about them because I'm very much new to photography beyond just "point & click".

02-06-2014, 09:00 PM	#90
Daikokuya Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 210	Originally posted by monochrome However, Ricoh Imaging Americas Co, Ltd. recently erected a large display sign at street level of their downtown Denver, CO offices that simply says PENTAX in bold red letters. Corporations - especially global corporations want brand synergy whenever they can get it. IMHO there's absolutely nothing wrong with Ricoh Imaging owning a brand or more and Pentax being one brand name. It still means interchangeable lens camera manufactured in various lens mounts. I suspect as time goes by there will actually be more brand names owned by Ricoh Imaging. I'm not saying that Ricoh will completely abandon Pentax's name. You can see a big red "PENTAX" logo on the top of a building in Ricoh Imaging headquarters in Tokyo. It's still alive, though the company's name has changed. I'm not sure if Ricoh will buy another camera brand. Decades ago, there were a bunch of camera makers who adopted the K-mount like Chinon or Cosina. Even Ricoh's SLR was the K-mount. But all are gone now. Samsung's mount is interchangeable with the K-mount, but it's not realistic that Ricoh buys Samsung's camera segment based on the current performance of two companies.