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02-18-2014, 06:44 AM   #211
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Oh, but he does...

02-18-2014, 10:43 AM   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Of course they will have one. The only point where people are misunderstanding the situation is how should Ricoh Imaging live in the meantime and make money, while the FF in an overall market is still below 10% of all DSLRs sold, and even less so in the mirrorless market. Which means, cameras other than 135 format sensored cameras comprise 90-95% of the total market. FF is a niche, yet already richly furnished. In 6+ last years it hasn't moved above the single digit % of all camera sales. So on what basis some people expect all cameras to become FF in the near future?

Whoever has done some basics of economy knows that resources for any company are limited, and must be used wisely. To invest greatly into extraordinary demanding needs of an FF system, but enjoy only perhaps 5-10% of overall sales (and at the same start a fierce competition in such a limited market to immediately diminish proposed value of the product) makes very little sense.

At least it makes no sense at this stage, when the % of FF sales are not in double digits, and majority of customers do not care too much about the FF at all.

If that changes, of course there will be an FF camera from Pentax. But it is important to understand that what camera geeks and gear snobs desire and fantasise about, is totally separated from any common sense or viable economy. And is simply not justifiable.

On the other hand, the MF market is interesting; sales to the end customers in that market are very limited. However, sales in the industry/government/services sector, by using the MF as a ticket to it, can be enormous. And the ROI on MF investment is then far greater, which allows for other important projects to roll on, not only exhausting engagements in the severe and unpredictable end user’s market.
If you follow this route, you will always be behind the market. The issue isn't the number of FF digital cameras sold today but what it's expected to be in 3, 6, and 10 years. Does anyone think the FF market will not be bigger down the road than today?

Pentax/Ricoh have a real potential competitive advantage in digital FF. They are the only company that's likely to develop a FF DSLR that provides image stabilization for millions of legacy FF lenses.
02-18-2014, 10:58 AM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by welshwizard645 Quote
You heard it here first.
I regularly write I think the FF camera series should be designated 'L'-x. Perhaps the lenses would be
HD PENTAX WR IF 'L' 1:2.8 70~210 ZOOM, for instance.
02-18-2014, 11:16 AM   #214
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I really hope that the 70-200mm lens on the road map is a hint for a full frame Pentax...
I've just read that Fujifilm is planning to compete on the full frame market : Here's the LINK
Fujifilm is becoming more and more stronger and popular since the past few years, and their latest products really have excited a lot of current (pros and hobbyists) and aspiring photographers all around the world...

02-18-2014, 11:31 AM   #215
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Of course they will have one. The only point where people are misunderstanding the situation is how should Ricoh Imaging live in the meantime and make money, while the FF in an overall market is still below 10% of all DSLRs sold, and even less so in the mirrorless market. Which means, cameras other than 135 format sensored cameras comprise 90-95% of the total market. FF is a niche, yet already richly furnished. In 6+ last years it hasn't moved above the single digit % of all camera sales. So on what basis some people expect all cameras to become FF in the near future?

Whoever has done some basics of economy knows that resources for any company are limited, and must be used wisely. To invest greatly into extraordinary demanding needs of an FF system, but enjoy only perhaps 5-10% of overall sales (and at the same start a fierce competition in such a limited market to immediately diminish proposed value of the product) makes very little sense.

At least it makes no sense at this stage, when the % of FF sales are not in double digits, and majority of customers do not care too much about the FF at all.

If that changes, of course there will be an FF camera from Pentax. But it is important to understand that what camera geeks and gear snobs desire and fantasise about, is totally separated from any common sense or viable economy. And is simply not justifiable.

On the other hand, the MF market is interesting; sales to the end customers in that market are very limited. However, sales in the industry/government/services sector, by using the MF as a ticket to it, can be enormous. And the ROI on MF investment is then far greater, which allows for other important projects to roll on, not only exhausting engagements in the severe and unpredictable end user’s market.
I don't think the FF market was ever so profitable to the big two, but it's such a wonderfull showcase of the technologies of the company.

It just say : we can do that for the pro, and so we can offer you the same, dear consumer.
02-18-2014, 11:34 AM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by richard balonglong Quote
I really hope that the 70-200mm lens on the road map is a hint for a full frame Pentax...
I've just read that Fujifilm is planning to compete on the full frame market : Here's the LINK
Fujifilm is becoming more and more stronger and popular since the past few years, and their latest products really have excited a lot of current (pros and hobbyists) and aspiring photographers all around the world...
I read it as well, yet another strike of genial journalism from that site: Fuji actually said they don't have such plans (for now, but maybe later blah blah).
OTOH, Pentax/Ricoh said they are planning and working on a FF line. I think Fuji's way ahead, how about you?

By the way, it appears Fuji would have to change their mount in order to make it possible. No such issue with the FF-compatible K-mount
But Fuji's still ahead, and PentaxIsDoomed!
02-18-2014, 11:34 AM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I regularly write I think the FF camera series should be designated 'L'-x. Perhaps the lenses would be
HD PENTAX WR IF 'L' 1:2.8 70~210 ZOOM, for instance.
I wouldnt mind the FF cameras being designated 'L'
But a lens with the L designation, or even containing the letter L would be a tough sell due to the Canon factor.
02-18-2014, 11:37 AM   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I wouldnt mind the FF cameras being designated 'L'
But a lens with the L designation, or even containing the letter L would be a tough sell due to the Canon factor.
I believe he's intending to imply that there will be a new L mount for FF.

02-18-2014, 11:38 AM   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
I don't think the FF market was ever so profitable to the big two, but it's such a wonderfull showcase of the technologies of the company.

It just say : we can do that for the pro, and so we can offer you the same, dear consumer.
I dont think the FF camera bodies are that profitable...they just dont sell enough of them.
I do think that the FF lens market is where they make their money though. If you want great glass, you aren't going to be buying the consumer DX super zoom. You'll be buying glass designed for full frame.
That is Thom Hogan's biggest gripe with Nikon, that they have not matured the DX lens line. In my opinion, why would they if people are buying FX glass anyway?
02-18-2014, 11:57 AM   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I read it as well, yet another strike of genial journalism from that site: Fuji actually said they don't have such plans (for now, but maybe later blah blah).
OTOH, Pentax/Ricoh said they are planning and working on a FF line. I think Fuji's way ahead, how about you?

By the way, it appears Fuji would have to change their mount in order to make it possible. No such issue with the FF-compatible K-mount
But Fuji's still ahead, and PentaxIsDoomed!
haha... Yeah...
Regarding on Fuji's mount, maybe they won't have to change the mount if they go FF just like Sony's e-mount..
For me, when Ricoh took over Pentax, "PentaxisDoomed" is already irrelevant, instead, "PentaxisReBorn" is more appropriate...
02-18-2014, 12:29 PM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I regularly write I think the FF camera series should be designated 'L'-x. Perhaps the lenses would be
HD PENTAX WR IF 'L' 1:2.8 70~210 ZOOM, for instance.
No, not at all. I was referring to the LX - the ultimate Pentax 35mm film camera. Maybe 'KL'-x would be better.

QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I wouldnt mind the FF cameras being designated 'L'
But a lens with the L designation, or even containing the letter L would be a tough sell due to the Canon factor.
Yeah, I thought about that, but neither FA nor D-FA seems to work and DA would be just too confusing.
02-18-2014, 12:41 PM - 1 Like   #222
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I see that Tokina has announced a new FF 24-70/2.8 along with a 70-200 f/4 and a slow-to-market 12-28 aps-c lens.
That's a lot of roadmap coincidence & suggests that Pentax and Tokina are still cooperating, optically..
02-18-2014, 12:47 PM   #223
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I see no 24-70 coincidence. I think the pentax wide zoom will be announced late may together with a k-50 follow up. The 70-200 better be 2.8
02-18-2014, 01:09 PM   #224
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True - the 24-70 should go to the Full Frame rumor list, as several over there have wondered if Tokina and Pentax are intending to team up for the Real Soon Now dream camera. Personally I'd like the compactness of an f/4 or even f/3.5-4.5 - but I know f/2.8 is a Grail spec to many folks here. I shall know soon, as a Tamron 28-75 will be in my hands shortly
02-18-2014, 01:41 PM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
If you follow this route, you will always be behind the market. The issue isn't the number of FF digital cameras sold today but what it's expected to be in 3, 6, and 10 years. Does anyone think the FF market will not be bigger down the road than today?

Pentax/Ricoh have a real potential competitive advantage in digital FF. They are the only company that's likely to develop a FF DSLR that provides image stabilization for millions of legacy FF lenses.

It is more than five years ago some said FF would dominate the marked by now. They were wrong.
It can be argued that there has been no real traction in the FF market the last five years. The year both entry level FF DSLR's were released (D600 and 6D), which happens to be the same year the 5DIII and the D800 were new and in their prime selling time, the market increase for FF was only from about 6% to 8% of the total DSLR share. (In addition, the competing APS DSLR's were all old. And now the K-3 is here and proven very popular). The minor increase in FF popularity, in spite of the news interest in the new model all of them representing the bulk of FF sales, really indicate that the FF market is truly saturated....

It is about profitability.
I don't think the marked for FF willl be significantly better down the road. Sensors are getting better making a stronger case for smaller sensors.
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