K-mount lens roadmap updated

asahi man · 02-10-2014, 04:10 AM

And every SLR is a Asahiflex/Pentax rebadge,all copycats :-)

**Rondec** · 02-10-2014, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Different elements = NOT a rebadge.
Different coatings, in my opinion, often makes for a rebadge. With modern coatings the difference between 99% and 99.2% is primarily marketing.
Different outer shell = Rebadge IMO.

The optical design is 99% of the lens. You can put a quick shift on it - and I love quick shift - and call it a Cimarron but it's still a rebadge.

Pentax, when they were in the midst of their financial woes, licensed the optical formulas to several lenses to Tokina (16-50, 50-135, 35 macro, 10-17 FE). Tokina licensed one lens back -- the DA 12-24. I wouldn't really call this a re-badge situation since there were tweaks done by both companies to the end product and the lenses were produced in their own factories.

aurele · 02-10-2014, 05:42 AM - **1 Like**

sorry, but what was the original point about the "rebadging issue" ?

Kunzite · 02-10-2014, 05:55 AM

That the new * Telezoom "must be a rebadged Tamron":

Originally posted by Kenn100D

70-200mm tele must be a rebadge Tamron. But i hope it aint so.��

mikemike · 02-10-2014, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by aurele

sorry, but what was the original point about the "rebadging issue" ?

I don't know but it seems to have taken on a life of its own to the point where it is an obsession.

northcoastgreg · 02-10-2014, 08:51 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Different coatings, in my opinion, often makes for a rebadge. With modern coatings the difference between 99% and 99.2% is primarily marketing. Different outer shell = Rebadge IMO

Originally posted by mikemike

I agree, but it is quite plausible that one brand might use better grades of glass for their elements or use better types of elements like with aspherical elements using ground glass instead of molded or hybrid. It is probably impossible to tell for certain though without it being expressly noted or taking the lenses apart and inspecting the elements by someone who is an expert in optical glass.

The real question is whether the lenses perform the same in terms of real world output. Coatings and quality of glass can affect microcnotrast and color rendition, both of which can have a bigger impact on image quality than, say, sensor size, because the effects of microcontrast and color rendition can be detected at small prints sizes, whereas it might require large print sizes before you'll notice the added resolution due to larger sensor size.

According to lenstip.com, theTokina 12-24 has a "green hole," which means it prevents a larger percentage of the green part of the color spectrum from reaching the sensor than most lenses in its price category. That potentially lowers the quality of the color rendition, which can have an impact on the final image, particularly prints.The DA 12-24, on the other hand, suffers no such "green hole" problems. It has some of the best color rendering of green (and blue) that I've ever seen in a zoom lens.

arne.oestlund · 02-11-2014, 01:34 AM

According to an independet lens review by the Swedish magazine FOTO, both the SMC Pentax-DA* 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM and the SMC Pentax-DA* 300mm F4 ED [IF] SDM are FF lenses, as their picture circle well cover the FF picture circle.

Translated quote: We discovered that the curves for both MTF and vignetting had typical FF-performance when measuring these. Thus it is able to use it on a FF camera.

ogl · 02-11-2014, 01:58 AM

Originally posted by arne.oestlund

According to an independet lens review by the Swedish magazine FOTO, both the SMC Pentax-DA* 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM and the SMC Pentax-DA* 300mm F4 ED [IF] SDM are FF lenses, as their picture circle well cover the FF picture circle.

Translated quote: We discovered that the curves for both MTF and vignetting had typical FF-performance when measuring these. Thus it is able to use it on a FF camera.

We know it for many years.

gazonk · 02-11-2014, 02:02 AM

Originally posted by arne.oestlund

According to an independet lens review by the Swedish magazine FOTO, both the SMC Pentax-DA* 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM and the SMC Pentax-DA* 300mm F4 ED [IF] SDM are FF lenses, as their picture circle well cover the FF picture circle.

If the DA300+TC also covers FF well, Pentax already has a decent tele lineup for FF. Too bad the DA560 (according to the PF review) isn't very good on FF, though.

StarDust · 02-11-2014, 06:33 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by ogl

We know it for many years.

Don't pick on the new guy

Daikokuya · 02-11-2014, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by mee

Is there any word on Tokina releasing anything for Pentax in the not-too-distant future? I see what looks to be around a 12-28mm on the roadmap.. but I also see Tokina has a new 12-28mm F/4 out now.. wonder if they will share that with us. Btw the Tokina is still an APS-C lens..

I think that the DA wide zoom on the roadmap is an OEM of Tokina's AT-X 12-28mm PRO DX. It could replace the DA 12-24mm which was out in 2005.

A 16-85ish lens is a conundrum. It would be a successor of the DA 17-70mm, which was out in 2008. I would like to see a replacement of the DA 16-50mm, though, which is older than the DA 17-70mm. Anyway, a 16-85ish should be Pentax's original along with the DA tele-zoom on the roadmap.

Serpiente · 02-11-2014, 10:02 AM

Same optical formula, different materials. If you use better glass, coatings, seals, af-motor, exterior you get a better product

thibs · 02-11-2014, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by Daikokuya

I think that the DA wide zoom on the roadmap is an OEM of Tokina's AT-X 12-28mm PRO DX. It could replace the DA 12-24mm which was out in 2005.

I don't think so but could be wrong of course. Otherwise Pentax would have gone very quickly with the other Tok, the 11-16/2.8.

mrmentera · 02-11-2014, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by arne.oestlund

According to an independet lens review by the Swedish magazine FOTO, both the SMC Pentax-DA* 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM and the SMC Pentax-DA* 300mm F4 ED [IF] SDM are FF lenses, as their picture circle well cover the FF picture circle.

Translated quote: We discovered that the curves for both MTF and vignetting had typical FF-performance when measuring these. Thus it is able to use it on a FF camera.

Hej Arne,
Du kan titta på den här tråden där falconeye uppdaterar listan på första inlägget efterhand som linserna testats på FF.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/31629-da-le...ts-thread.html

wed7 · 02-11-2014, 03:15 PM

Perhaps Ricoh thought that making/using an 70-200mm on apsc isn't bad at all, and there is a really profitable market from that lens range as more Pentax are egging on telephoto range.

If this will be out in the market, then we Pentax users would be really covered with good telephoto lenses together with the rumored telezoom (~100-400?) and the existing 50-135.

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02-10-2014, 04:10 AM	#136
asahi man Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Photos: Albums Posts: 324	And every SLR is a Asahiflex/Pentax rebadge,all copycats :-)

02-10-2014, 04:57 AM	#137
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,652	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Different elements = NOT a rebadge. Different coatings, in my opinion, often makes for a rebadge. With modern coatings the difference between 99% and 99.2% is primarily marketing. Different outer shell = Rebadge IMO. The optical design is 99% of the lens. You can put a quick shift on it - and I love quick shift - and call it a Cimarron but it's still a rebadge. Pentax, when they were in the midst of their financial woes, licensed the optical formulas to several lenses to Tokina (16-50, 50-135, 35 macro, 10-17 FE). Tokina licensed one lens back -- the DA 12-24. I wouldn't really call this a re-badge situation since there were tweaks done by both companies to the end product and the lenses were produced in their own factories.

02-10-2014, 05:42 AM - 1 Like	#138
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	sorry, but what was the original point about the "rebadging issue" ?

02-10-2014, 05:55 AM	#139
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	That the new * Telezoom "must be a rebadged Tamron": Originally posted by Kenn100D 70-200mm tele must be a rebadge Tamron. But i hope it aint so.��

02-10-2014, 08:00 AM	#140
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by aurele sorry, but what was the original point about the "rebadging issue" ? I don't know but it seems to have taken on a life of its own to the point where it is an obsession.

02-10-2014, 08:51 AM	#141
northcoastgreg Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Northern Michigan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,173	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Different coatings, in my opinion, often makes for a rebadge. With modern coatings the difference between 99% and 99.2% is primarily marketing. Different outer shell = Rebadge IMO Originally posted by mikemike I agree, but it is quite plausible that one brand might use better grades of glass for their elements or use better types of elements like with aspherical elements using ground glass instead of molded or hybrid. It is probably impossible to tell for certain though without it being expressly noted or taking the lenses apart and inspecting the elements by someone who is an expert in optical glass. The real question is whether the lenses perform the same in terms of real world output. Coatings and quality of glass can affect microcnotrast and color rendition, both of which can have a bigger impact on image quality than, say, sensor size, because the effects of microcontrast and color rendition can be detected at small prints sizes, whereas it might require large print sizes before you'll notice the added resolution due to larger sensor size. According to lenstip.com, theTokina 12-24 has a "green hole," which means it prevents a larger percentage of the green part of the color spectrum from reaching the sensor than most lenses in its price category. That potentially lowers the quality of the color rendition, which can have an impact on the final image, particularly prints.The DA 12-24, on the other hand, suffers no such "green hole" problems. It has some of the best color rendering of green (and blue) that I've ever seen in a zoom lens.

02-11-2014, 01:34 AM	#142
arne.oestlund Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Eskilstuna Photos: Albums Posts: 67	According to an independet lens review by the Swedish magazine FOTO, both the *SMC Pentax-DA 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM and the SMC Pentax-DA* 300mm F4 ED [IF] SDM** are FF lenses, as their picture circle well cover the FF picture circle. Translated quote: We discovered that the curves for both MTF and vignetting had typical FF-performance when measuring these. Thus it is able to use it on a FF camera.

02-11-2014, 01:58 AM	#143
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by arne.oestlund According to an independet lens review by the Swedish magazine FOTO, both the *SMC Pentax-DA 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM and the SMC Pentax-DA* 300mm F4 ED [IF] SDM** are FF lenses, as their picture circle well cover the FF picture circle. Translated quote: We discovered that the curves for both MTF and vignetting had typical FF-performance when measuring these. Thus it is able to use it on a FF camera. We know it for many years.

02-11-2014, 02:02 AM	#144
gazonk Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Oslo area, Norway Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,746	Originally posted by arne.oestlund According to an independet lens review by the Swedish magazine FOTO, both the *SMC Pentax-DA 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM and the SMC Pentax-DA* 300mm F4 ED [IF] SDM** are FF lenses, as their picture circle well cover the FF picture circle. If the DA300+TC also covers FF well, Pentax already has a decent tele lineup for FF. Too bad the DA560 (according to the PF review) isn't very good on FF, though.

02-11-2014, 06:33 AM - 2 Likes	#145
StarDust Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Posts: 400	Originally posted by ogl We know it for many years. Don't pick on the new guy

02-11-2014, 09:03 AM	#146
Daikokuya Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 210 Original Poster	Originally posted by mee Is there any word on Tokina releasing anything for Pentax in the not-too-distant future? I see what looks to be around a 12-28mm on the roadmap.. but I also see Tokina has a new 12-28mm F/4 out now.. wonder if they will share that with us. Btw the Tokina is still an APS-C lens.. I think that the DA wide zoom on the roadmap is an OEM of Tokina's AT-X 12-28mm PRO DX. It could replace the DA 12-24mm which was out in 2005. A 16-85ish lens is a conundrum. It would be a successor of the DA 17-70mm, which was out in 2008. I would like to see a replacement of the DA 16-50mm, though, which is older than the DA 17-70mm. Anyway, a 16-85ish should be Pentax's original along with the DA tele-zoom on the roadmap.

02-11-2014, 10:02 AM	#147
Serpiente Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 154	Same optical formula, different materials. If you use better glass, coatings, seals, af-motor, exterior you get a better product

02-11-2014, 10:29 AM	#148
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Daikokuya I think that the DA wide zoom on the roadmap is an OEM of Tokina's AT-X 12-28mm PRO DX. It could replace the DA 12-24mm which was out in 2005. I don't think so but could be wrong of course. Otherwise Pentax would have gone very quickly with the other Tok, the 11-16/2.8.

02-11-2014, 11:53 AM	#149
mrmentera Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Falun Posts: 90	Originally posted by arne.oestlund According to an independet lens review by the Swedish magazine FOTO, both the *SMC Pentax-DA 200mm F2.8 ED [IF] SDM and the SMC Pentax-DA* 300mm F4 ED [IF] SDM** are FF lenses, as their picture circle well cover the FF picture circle. Translated quote: We discovered that the curves for both MTF and vignetting had typical FF-performance when measuring these. Thus it is able to use it on a FF camera. Hej Arne, Du kan titta på den här tråden där falconeye uppdaterar listan på första inlägget efterhand som linserna testats på FF. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/10-pentax-slr-lens-discussion/31629-da-le...ts-thread.html

02-11-2014, 03:15 PM	#150
wed7 Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Manila, Philippines Posts: 1,421	Perhaps Ricoh thought that making/using an 70-200mm on apsc isn't bad at all, and there is a really profitable market from that lens range as more Pentax are egging on telephoto range. If this will be out in the market, then we Pentax users would be really covered with good telephoto lenses together with the rumored telezoom (~100-400?) and the existing 50-135.