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02-06-2014, 09:38 PM   #166
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Engineers over in metric countries must deal with the ambiguity all the time of what is mass for calculations vs weight/force when everything is called kilograms for both.
Yes, if they are looking for problems. To make live easier they need to use so called consistent units system. Moreover, "metric countries" have a number of consistent units systems, not only SI. But people use such strange units as minutes, hours, years, cups, tea spoons etc.

And btw, other planets have completely different values of the coefficient g!

02-06-2014, 09:46 PM   #167
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I think John Q Public can handle it. He has no problem with units such as the Watt.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. People think of units in terms of their understanding of everyday things they grew up with. Even now, most people think of "watts" as in "how many watts these appliances use" and not "1 watt = the rate of work done in applying a force of 1 newton over a distance of 1 meter in 1 second". Or how bright CFLs are by "incandescent light bulb equivalent wattage" instead of lumens.

It is better to teach people units of mass first, because that does not change for a given object no matter where you take it, unlike weight. You tell a kid to pick up a liter of water and tell him "You feel that? This is 1kg of water". Afterwards, if it makes a difference in his field, he will be educated on the difference between mass and weight. Otherwise it is good enough to say "If I put two 500g lenses in my bag, it will weigh the same as if I put a 1kg lens in my bag".

Last edited by Cannikin; 02-06-2014 at 10:50 PM.
02-06-2014, 11:04 PM   #168
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
How do you know this ? The camera is not available yet ?

I generally used my Mamiya medium format with tripod...but I also used it hand held with out difficulty. I had a small level affixed to it so I could quickly ensure things were level.
I own current 645D : I doubt you can take neat shots with this 50 Mpix sensor handheld using live view

Last edited by Zygonyx; 02-06-2014 at 11:11 PM.
02-07-2014, 01:55 AM - 1 Like   #169
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Looks great, but expensive.

How about that tilting screen. That's a real photo-beginners-item I guess.
Tilting screens are useful for anyone searching for a new perspective. I own 2 tilting screen cameras: the Sony Nex 5n and Nex 6. Those tilting screens are incredibly sturdy and handy. If not, Sony would be dealing with a ton of them in their warranty repairs. Over the last 2 years, i've yet to see ANYONE mention a broken tiltable screen on Sony forums for dpreview.

Another thing you don't see, is owners of tilting screen cameras saying: gee, i wish my camera didn't have one There is a great fear out there about the "unknown" experience of tilting screen - i have no idea why.

I recently bought a K3, but it was despite the camera not having a tilting screen. Sony puts them on several if not all of their FF cameras.

02-07-2014, 02:00 AM   #170
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Tilting screen. If I had money to buy this new 645, it would not be a problem for me. you can always choose to not use it, if necessary It can be handy too.
02-07-2014, 02:00 AM   #171
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Don't forget the "load" factor btw tilt-screen and the rest of the camera...
You don't use MF like P&S, do you ? ...
I will avoid 645DII for several reasons, amongst them the fear to break the screen.
02-07-2014, 02:53 AM   #172
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IMO fear of breaking an articulated screen is ridiculous. Any impact hard enough to snap a metal joint would shatter glass long before that happened. In fact, I would wager an articulated screen would have a higher chance of surviving a major impact than a fixed screen by the very nature of its design: applying a force will cause it to flip out, mitigating much of the impact, while a fixed screen can do nothing but directly absorb all the kinetic energy.

Can anyone find any report of an articulated screen having snapped off? I can't, but I definitely can find plenty of reports of fixed LCDs being shattered.
02-07-2014, 03:59 AM   #173
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
I own current 645D : I doubt you can take neat shots with this 50 Mpix sensor handheld using live view
But you can go to a concert in a park, hold the 645D with FA150mm above your head, tilt the screen downwards and make a need shot. Go back on the grass and enjoy your beer, girlfriend and music


Well I guess on a Sunny day you can make handheld shots using liveview, otherways I also don't think so.

02-07-2014, 05:21 AM   #174
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
But you can go to a concert in a park, hold the 645D with FA150mm above your head, tilt the screen downwards and make a need shot. Go back on the grass and enjoy your beer, girlfriend and music


Well I guess on a Sunny day you can make handheld shots using liveview, otherways I also don't think so.
So yes, we agree there
But your concert shot has a lot of probability to be "artistically" blurred
02-07-2014, 05:23 AM   #175
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote

Well I guess on a Sunny day you can make handheld shots using liveview, otherways I also don't think so.
I've seen a lot of Hasselblad photographers doing hand held waist level photography (at least on sunny days ) - would this be different?
02-07-2014, 05:24 AM   #176
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
IMO fear of breaking an articulated screen is ridiculous. Any impact hard enough to snap a metal joint would shatter glass long before that happened. In fact, I would wager an articulated screen would have a higher chance of surviving a major impact than a fixed screen by the very nature of its design: applying a force will cause it to flip out, mitigating much of the impact, while a fixed screen can do nothing but directly absorb all the kinetic energy.

Can anyone find any report of an articulated screen having snapped off? I can't, but I definitely can find plenty of reports of fixed LCDs being shattered.
No-one has the new body+tilt screen experience, but if you used to 645D shooting, you must see what i mean.

My only point is : for the use of this swivel screen (close to nil in my shooting habits), i wouldn't take that risk for >12 000 bucks...
The more you walk around and use your gear in harsh environmental conditions, the less you actually want articulation of any kind.

Look at Canikon : Pro grade stuff don't get it.

Last edited by Zygonyx; 02-07-2014 at 05:30 AM.
02-07-2014, 05:47 AM   #177
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I must say that I agree that what we usually think as pro gear, don't have articulated screens. But there it is. Maybe Pentax/Ricoh want to change this.

it sounds quite convenient for big camera to have tilting screen. when you have put camera in good position lover or higher than normal eye level on a tripod, you can easily check what you have done or going to shoot with out needing to bend over or move your camera. I would not see this screen for shooting over your head in concert or tight spot...could be, but perhaps not.

Also shooting from waist level, it sounds good. In good light(might need some shadowing for too bright light).
02-07-2014, 07:23 AM   #178
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Indeed "full 645" digital sensors are a niche within the niche but you don't mention the 36x48 sensors which are in-between and quite well represented.
Do you think that there is any serious difference between 44*33 and 48*36 mm?
Especially, if 44*33 is new generation CMOS sensor. And 48*36 mm is rather old CCD sensor.
I think new CMOS will be better in all ways.
02-07-2014, 08:27 AM   #179
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Do you think that there is any serious difference between 44*33 and 48*36 mm?
Especially, if 44*33 is new generation CMOS sensor. And 48*36 mm is rather old CCD sensor.
I think new CMOS will be better in all ways.
In addition to the different crop factor (1.25 for 33x44 vs. 1.15 for 36x48), there are differences, within the same CCD sensor generation (same pixel pitch), between 33x44 and 36x48 sensors: more pixels (e.g. 40m for 33x44 and 50m for 36x48), hence more definition and, more important, smoother transitions between in-focus and out-of-focus areas.

As for the new CMOS sensor, the pictures I have seen so far aren't convincing in comparison with those taken with the "old" CCD sensors but they stemmed from pre-production IQ250 Phase One digital backs with beta firmware. In addition, this IQ250 is the first CMOS sensor ever that Phase One are handling.

In this respect, Ricoh have an advantage since they know very well how CMOS Sony sensors behave in a variety of conditions and have been able to fine tune their firmware accordingly.

Last edited by Mistral75; 02-07-2014 at 08:33 AM.
02-07-2014, 08:55 AM   #180
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