New Pentax 645D2014 also uses the 50MP Sony CMOS sensor!

Na Horuk · 02-09-2014, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

No duckface here...well duck dynasty perhaps..

I think that calling such a good auto-portrait a "selfie" would be insulting. If you use that on facebook or google+ it would definitely stand out from most other people's photos (unless you only hang out with photographers)

**filoxophy** · 02-09-2014, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Well...
No mater what selfie is/are wanted, i always preferred true mirrors to screeny illusions

Haha, that's awesome! Like a gangster ready for battle.

timcatn · 02-09-2014, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Well...
No mater what selfie is/are wanted, i always preferred true mirrors to screeny illusions

Best selfie i have ever seen.

ElJamoquio · 02-09-2014, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by ogl

Do you think that there is any serious difference between 44*33 and 48*36 mm?
Especially, if 44*33 is new generation CMOS sensor. And 48*36 mm is rather old CCD sensor.
I think new CMOS will be better in all ways.

I don't disagree with your conclusion of CMOS being better than CCD - it's probably true, but we still haven't seen the performanc.e

The difference between 44*33 and 49*36.8 (it's not 48*36) is 1.24, or a crop factor of 1.11. Does it matter? Sure, but not a ton.

One problem with making the 645D a larger market is that it can't generally be used for low light photography - there's some rare glass out there faster than F/2.8 but it's not very common. That F/2.8 on full frame would be a f/2.15 with 44*33 or a f/1.94 with 49*36.8.

All else the same (which of course it isn't - the sensors are quite different) you'd want the F/1.9 rather than the F/2.2 right?

D1N0 · 02-09-2014, 03:56 PM

Sony makes the sensor for different companies. They decide on the size. Sensors would be much more expensive if you had to make a different size for hasselblad phase one Pentax en whoever else is out there.

ElJamoquio · 02-09-2014, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by D1N0

Sony makes the sensor for different companies. They decide on the size. Sensors would be much more expensive if you had to make a different size for hasselblad phase one Pentax en whoever else is out there.

Sony makes this sensor, and they decided on 44x33. I hope that is not the long-term standard for digital 645 as that is quite a ways from 'full frame' 645 and not that much of an improvement over 36*24.

jogiba · 02-09-2014, 04:23 PM

It looks like the new 645D is part of "a hobby business " for Ricoh.

Quote:

Ricoh

Another company where cameras are an extremely small part of the overall business. So much so that cameras fall into "Other" in Ricoh's financial statements, and it shares that category with things like "lease financing." About the only statement regarding cameras was one that release of new cameras in the quarter contributed to the sales increase in "Other", though so did lease financing ;~). The "Other" category had a small operating loss (equivalent to less than .1% of the company's overall operating income), significantly down from the previous year.

Bottom line for Ricoh: cameras are such a small part of their company that they generally don't even comment about how they're doing. As one analyst put it: cameras aren't even equivalent to a rounding error most of the time for Ricoh. Thus, the good news is that Ricoh can do pretty much whatever they like in cameras without having a real financial impact on the overall company at the moment. Unfortunately, I think that's the bad news, too. There's virtually no financial incentive to try to change the status quo. Ricoh could double their sales of cameras and it still wouldn't show up on the company's bottom line. In essence, cameras for Ricoh are absolutely what Steve Jobs used to refer to as "a hobby business," one that the company explores to keep its hand in the game looking for some significant upside, but one that isn't looked at for making any significant contribution to the corporate finances at the moment.

Camera Company Financials | byThom | Thom Hogan

D1N0 · 02-09-2014, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

It looks like the new 645D is part of "a hobby business " for Ricoh.

Camera Company Financials | byThom | Thom Hogan

Some analist says. Most analists are wrong most of the time. B2B is of course much bigger for Ricoh en so much more important to talk about to shareholders.

Na Horuk · 02-09-2014, 04:58 PM

Well Ricoh is a huge company. But so were other owners of Pentax. And so is the owner of Nikon.. even Canon deals with all sorts of things other than DSLRs

cfraz · 02-09-2014, 05:33 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

It looks like the new 645D is part of "a hobby business " for Ricoh.

Camera Company Financials | byThom | Thom Hogan

That's certainly not the impression given by Zenji Miura, Ricoh's CEO and President when making his presentation at the 2013 Investor's meeting. This 26 page report http://www.ricoh.com/IR/pdf/presentation_text_2013.pdf includes explict references to Pentax on 4 or 5 pages. And 2 pages are devoted entirely to Pentax cameras and how they fit into Ricoh's strategy.

I think a CEO's business strategy presentation to investors is kind of important, no? I doubt Mirua would spend roughly 10% of his presentation on hobby aspects of the business. Just because Pentax is in the "Other" category with respect to sales, it doesn't follow that Ricoh's camera business does not have the requisite company investment and commitment needed to succeed.

**seventhdr** · 02-09-2014, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by jogiba

New Pentax 645D2014 also uses the 50MP Sony CMOS sensor! | sonyalpharumors

Has any one noticed the two areas of retouching on the photo of the rear of the 645D II ?

One is on the rubber cover on the left rear for the camera connections. On the original 645D this read "Video HDMI DC-IN USB" (reading from top left to bottom right). On the photo of the rear on the original post the top of the rubber cover has been retouched to hide what is written on the top of the cover. It now reads "Unknown Unknown DC-IN HDMI". Any guesses as to what is being hidden?

The second is on the right rear of the camera just to the left and between the Play and Menu buttons. The angling of the rear LDC display also covers this area. The four buttons for Drive Mode, White Balance, Custon Image and Flash on the original 645D have been repositioned around the direction controller and the other four buttons Play, Info, Menu and Delete have been moved off the right side of the display to below the direction controller, BUT only Play and Menu are visible. The extended rear display conceals the other two (???) buttons and what ever is their function. Any guesses as to what is being hidden? It could be a dual function button, as the other buttons have the function on the button, but at least the top hidden button has text underneath it.

Regards

Chris

thibs · 02-09-2014, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

Sony makes this sensor, and they decided on 44x33. I hope that is not the long-term standard for digital 645 as that is quite a ways from 'full frame' 645 and not that much of an improvement over 36*24.

Agreed but this is first Sony MF CMOS, which already is quite a thing: they AFAICT never did any sensor that big.
Lets take time and Sony will offer bigger ones

HawaiianOnline · 02-09-2014, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

Well...
No mater what selfie is/are wanted, i always preferred true mirrors to screeny illusions

I am clarity!
I am resolution!
I AM PENTAX MAN!!!!

With apologies to Zygonyx and Batman...

mikemike · 02-09-2014, 11:37 PM

MF sensor development seems like a really risky business to be in because all the manufacturers seem to gravitate towards a single vendor for each generation of technology.

ogl · 02-09-2014, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

I don't disagree with your conclusion of CMOS being better than CCD - it's probably true, but we still haven't seen the performanc.e

The difference between 44*33 and 49*36.8 (it's not 48*36) is 1.24, or a crop factor of 1.11. Does it matter? Sure, but not a ton.

One problem with making the 645D a larger market is that it can't generally be used for low light photography - there's some rare glass out there faster than F/2.8 but it's not very common. That F/2.8 on full frame would be a f/2.15 with 44*33 or a f/1.94 with 49*36.8.

All else the same (which of course it isn't - the sensors are quite different) you'd want the F/1.9 rather than the F/2.2 right?

The Phase One IQ250 CMOS Fully Realized

02-09-2014, 09:48 PM	#221
seventhdr Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Christchurch, New Zealand Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,440	Hidden Features on New 645D Originally posted by jogiba New Pentax 645D2014 also uses the 50MP Sony CMOS sensor! \| sonyalpharumors Has any one noticed the two areas of retouching on the photo of the rear of the 645D II ? One is on the rubber cover on the left rear for the camera connections. On the original 645D this read "Video HDMI DC-IN USB" (reading from top left to bottom right). On the photo of the rear on the original post the top of the rubber cover has been retouched to hide what is written on the top of the cover. It now reads "Unknown Unknown DC-IN HDMI". Any guesses as to what is being hidden? The second is on the right rear of the camera just to the left and between the Play and Menu buttons. The angling of the rear LDC display also covers this area. The four buttons for Drive Mode, White Balance, Custon Image and Flash on the original 645D have been repositioned around the direction controller and the other four buttons Play, Info, Menu and Delete have been moved off the right side of the display to below the direction controller, BUT only Play and Menu are visible. The extended rear display conceals the other two (???) buttons and what ever is their function. Any guesses as to what is being hidden? It could be a dual function button, as the other buttons have the function on the button, but at least the top hidden button has text underneath it. Regards Chris

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02-09-2014, 10:54 AM	#211
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Originally posted by Digitalis No duckface here...well duck dynasty perhaps.. I think that calling such a good auto-portrait a "selfie" would be insulting. If you use that on facebook or google+ it would definitely stand out from most other people's photos (unless you only hang out with photographers)

02-09-2014, 10:55 AM	#212
filoxophy Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 1,132	Originally posted by Zygonyx Well... No mater what selfie is/are wanted, i always preferred true mirrors to screeny illusions Haha, that's awesome! Like a gangster ready for battle.

02-09-2014, 01:42 PM	#213
timcatn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Trondheim Posts: 237	Originally posted by Zygonyx Well... No mater what selfie is/are wanted, i always preferred true mirrors to screeny illusions Best selfie i have ever seen.

02-09-2014, 03:44 PM	#214
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873 Original Poster	Originally posted by ogl Do you think that there is any serious difference between 4433 and 4836 mm? Especially, if 4433 is new generation CMOS sensor. And 4836 mm is rather old CCD sensor. I think new CMOS will be better in all ways. I don't disagree with your conclusion of CMOS being better than CCD - it's probably true, but we still haven't seen the performanc.e The difference between 4433 and 4936.8 (it's not 4836) is 1.24, or a crop factor of 1.11. Does it matter? Sure, but not a ton. One problem with making the 645D a larger market is that it can't generally be used for low light photography - there's some rare glass out there faster than F/2.8 but it's not very common. That F/2.8 on full frame would be a f/2.15 with 4433 or a f/1.94 with 49*36.8. All else the same (which of course it isn't - the sensors are quite different) you'd want the F/1.9 rather than the F/2.2 right?

02-09-2014, 03:56 PM	#215
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Sony makes the sensor for different companies. They decide on the size. Sensors would be much more expensive if you had to make a different size for hasselblad phase one Pentax en whoever else is out there.

02-09-2014, 04:08 PM	#216
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873 Original Poster	Originally posted by D1N0 Sony makes the sensor for different companies. They decide on the size. Sensors would be much more expensive if you had to make a different size for hasselblad phase one Pentax en whoever else is out there. Sony makes this sensor, and they decided on 44x33. I hope that is not the long-term standard for digital 645 as that is quite a ways from 'full frame' 645 and not that much of an improvement over 36*24.

02-09-2014, 04:23 PM	#217
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	It looks like the new 645D is part of "a hobby business " for Ricoh. Quote: Ricoh Another company where cameras are an extremely small part of the overall business. So much so that cameras fall into "Other" in Ricoh's financial statements, and it shares that category with things like "lease financing." About the only statement regarding cameras was one that release of new cameras in the quarter contributed to the sales increase in "Other", though so did lease financing ;~). The "Other" category had a small operating loss (equivalent to less than .1% of the company's overall operating income), significantly down from the previous year. Bottom line for Ricoh: cameras are such a small part of their company that they generally don't even comment about how they're doing. As one analyst put it: cameras aren't even equivalent to a rounding error most of the time for Ricoh. Thus, the good news is that Ricoh can do pretty much whatever they like in cameras without having a real financial impact on the overall company at the moment. Unfortunately, I think that's the bad news, too. There's virtually no financial incentive to try to change the status quo. Ricoh could double their sales of cameras and it still wouldn't show up on the company's bottom line. In essence, cameras for Ricoh are absolutely what Steve Jobs used to refer to as "a hobby business," one that the company explores to keep its hand in the game looking for some significant upside, but one that isn't looked at for making any significant contribution to the corporate finances at the moment. Camera Company Financials \| byThom \| Thom Hogan

02-09-2014, 04:45 PM	#218
D1N0 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2012 Location: --- Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,802	Originally posted by jogiba It looks like the new 645D is part of "a hobby business " for Ricoh. Camera Company Financials \| byThom \| Thom Hogan Some analist says. Most analists are wrong most of the time. B2B is of course much bigger for Ricoh en so much more important to talk about to shareholders.

02-09-2014, 04:58 PM	#219
Na Horuk Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Slovenia, probably Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,186	Well Ricoh is a huge company. But so were other owners of Pentax. And so is the owner of Nikon.. even Canon deals with all sorts of things other than DSLRs

02-09-2014, 05:33 PM	#220
cfraz Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 521	Originally posted by jogiba It looks like the new 645D is part of "a hobby business " for Ricoh. Camera Company Financials \| byThom \| Thom Hogan That's certainly not the impression given by Zenji Miura, Ricoh's CEO and President when making his presentation at the 2013 Investor's meeting. This 26 page report http://www.ricoh.com/IR/pdf/presentation_text_2013.pdf includes explict references to Pentax on 4 or 5 pages. And 2 pages are devoted entirely to Pentax cameras and how they fit into Ricoh's strategy. I think a CEO's business strategy presentation to investors is kind of important, no? I doubt Mirua would spend roughly 10% of his presentation on hobby aspects of the business. Just because Pentax is in the "Other" category with respect to sales, it doesn't follow that Ricoh's camera business does not have the requisite company investment and commitment needed to succeed.

02-09-2014, 10:00 PM	#222
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by ElJamoquio Sony makes this sensor, and they decided on 44x33. I hope that is not the long-term standard for digital 645 as that is quite a ways from 'full frame' 645 and not that much of an improvement over 36*24. Agreed but this is first Sony MF CMOS, which already is quite a thing: they AFAICT never did any sensor that big. Lets take time and Sony will offer bigger ones

02-09-2014, 11:21 PM	#223
HawaiianOnline Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Hawaii Posts: 613	Originally posted by Zygonyx Well... No mater what selfie is/are wanted, i always preferred true mirrors to screeny illusions I am clarity! I am resolution! I AM PENTAX MAN!!!! With apologies to Zygonyx and Batman...

02-09-2014, 11:37 PM	#224
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	MF sensor development seems like a really risky business to be in because all the manufacturers seem to gravitate towards a single vendor for each generation of technology.

02-09-2014, 11:39 PM	#225
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by ElJamoquio I don't disagree with your conclusion of CMOS being better than CCD - it's probably true, but we still haven't seen the performanc.e The difference between 4433 and 4936.8 (it's not 4836) is 1.24, or a crop factor of 1.11. Does it matter? Sure, but not a ton. One problem with making the 645D a larger market is that it can't generally be used for low light photography - there's some rare glass out there faster than F/2.8 but it's not very common. That F/2.8 on full frame would be a f/2.15 with 4433 or a f/1.94 with 49*36.8. All else the same (which of course it isn't - the sensors are quite different) you'd want the F/1.9 rather than the F/2.2 right? The Phase One IQ250 CMOS Fully Realized