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02-26-2014, 10:01 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
I know you're one of the least objective posters
I'm "one of the least objective posters" in your eyes, but your opinion on this matter means squat to me (as does any name calling and personal attacks). Please stop.

About my statement, it should be seen in the following context:
- it accurately reflects what Ricoh Imaging actually said.
- it responds to ElJamoquio's "no fast lenses" statement, which I regard as false. Indeed, there is a fast lens in the roadmap.
- it makes no claim about Pentax planning to launch something like a 24mm f/2.

02-26-2014, 10:09 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
We already have that, in the DA 20-40 2.8-4 Limited zoom.
They also have a 21mm f3.2, a 35mm f2.4, a 35mm f2.8, and that didnt stop them.

---------- Post added 02-26-14 at 09:13 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm "one of the least objective posters" in your eyes, but your opinion on this matter means squat to me (as does any name calling and personal attacks). Please stop.
It is not a personal attack. I don't know you personally, you are probably the nicest guy here.
Still, your posts paint PRIC in such rosey terms that they lack objectivity. If anyone says anything slightly negative about PRIC, you are all over them.
02-26-2014, 11:06 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I'm "one of the least objective posters" in your eyes, but your opinion on this matter means squat to me (as does any name calling and personal attacks). Please stop.

About my statement, it should be seen in the following context:
- it accurately reflects what Ricoh Imaging actually said.
- it responds to ElJamoquio's "no fast lenses" statement, which I regard as false. Indeed, there is a fast lens in the roadmap.
- it makes no claim about Pentax planning to launch something like a 24mm f/2.
Did I miss the 'aperture' part of the roadmap?
02-26-2014, 11:09 AM   #64
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Sorry, I'm not feeling like giving explanations

02-26-2014, 11:44 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Did I miss the 'aperture' part of the roadmap?
There are none...anyone that says what will be the aperture of those future lenses are speculating.
02-26-2014, 01:16 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
There are none...anyone that says what will be the aperture of those future lenses are speculating.
Read some of these recent asahi man posts - pretty good speculation!!

I suppose I should just stop because people are getting annoyed with the optimism - but really, over the fullness of time I think Pentax will produce most of what posters here want. It just won't happen as quickly as most people hope it will since Pentax is so small (and Ricoh just isn't going to drop tens of millions of dollars into Pentax to hurry things up). OTOH I'm not a Pollyanna - there are serious issues with what I consider the apparent lack of urgency at Pentax.

They're not going to be Canon or Nikon. It isn't going to happen. They know it and we should accept it.

There is hope!! But there is also risk. My local camera chain (10 stores w/in 120 miles, 6 w/in 15 miles) has been successful for 40+ years and has always stocked Pentax. The in-stock count of camera models by brand follows - 3 years ago Sony and Oly were nowhere near this. Pentax shelf-share is shrinking.

Canon 40
Nikon 33
Sony 27
Olympus 21
Pentax 12
Fujifilm 2

Note that Q/Q7 is NOT represented!! Oly, Fuji and Sony are the entire Compact System Camera category!

This is one of just a few direct B&M Dealers that I know of - that's the real problem. Why can Oly and Fuji and Sony get access to everyone yet Pentax is frozen out?
02-26-2014, 01:27 PM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Read some of these recent asahi man posts - pretty good speculation!!
Did asahi man ever say anything about lenses as fast as the competition's fastest? I don't think he did, FWIW.
02-26-2014, 01:44 PM   #68
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I'm sure nobody said anything about an f/0.33 zoom lens (assuming that by "the competition's fastest" you're referring to the Carl Zeiss Super-Q-Gigantar 40mm f/0.33)

02-26-2014, 02:08 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Did asahi man ever say anything about lenses as fast as the competition's fastest? I don't think he did, FWIW.
HIIK. Don't care, either. They'll never be the competition's fastest anything. If I need or want that I can always go get it and and there's nothing wrong with that. They just have to be clear about what they are, the best at whatever that is, a good value on a features to cost basis (which does not mean lowest price) and appear to be rational and committed to a path.

Some of that is not yet visible. But I think it will be visible sooner than many people here think it will be visible. If that's obnoxious optimism - well then I pleaed guilty.
02-26-2014, 02:34 PM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
They'll never be the competition's fastest anything.
Seems to be the easily-justifiable position based on past entries. ...


QuoteQuote:
If I need or want that I can always go get it and and there's nothing wrong with that. They just have to be clear about what they are, the best at whatever that is, a good value on a features to cost basis (which does not mean lowest price) and appear to be rational and committed to a path.

Some of that is not yet visible. But I think it will be visible sooner than many people here think it will be visible. If that's obnoxious optimism - well then I pleaed guilty.
Agree on all points except it being optimistic or obnoxious.

Personally, I'm pessimistic about them being a good value on lenses. But I already have my lenses, so it doesn't really affect me. This fall I'll probably purchase Pentax's 24-75ish if it's an F/2.8, and that'll be a full stable for me.

02-26-2014, 03:20 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
We already have that, in the DA 20-40 2.8-4 Limited zoom.
C'mon...
It is exactly why Pentax is not as popular as it could be because of their irritating avoidance in digital age of producing primes in all FoVs that Leica and Fuji have.
And it is exactly why Pentax was so popular before, because in the days of film, they did make such lenses.
02-26-2014, 05:09 PM   #72
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The world moves on. We don't need a dinosaur Pentax!
02-26-2014, 05:15 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Seems to be the easily-justifiable position based on past entries. ...


Agree on all points except it being optimistic or obnoxious.

Personally, I'm pessimistic about them being a good value on lenses. But I already have my lenses, so it doesn't really affect me. This fall I'll probably purchase Pentax's 24-75ish if it's an F/2.8, and that'll be a full stable for me.

Please don't take this as rude, but this the problem. If Ricoh comes out with a FF camera based on their existing technology, they will sell say 10,000 units to loyal Pentax users like yourself, but where will the next 10,000 sales come from? To make things worse, you already have most of the lenses you want, so a new version of the FA star lenses won't tempt you to spend your money.

So the only way this makes sense is if Ricoh makes a FF camera so technically advanced that new customers choose it over Canon and Nikon. That is not a quick or easy thing to do, so I think that is why FF is taking so long. But the K-3 exceeded my expectations, so I'm amongst the optimists.
02-26-2014, 05:45 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Please don't take this as rude, but this the problem. If Ricoh comes out with a FF camera based on their existing technology, they will sell say 10,000 units to loyal Pentax users like yourself, but where will the next 10,000 sales come from? To make things worse, you already have most of the lenses you want, so a new version of the FA star lenses won't tempt you to spend your money.

So the only way this makes sense is if Ricoh makes a FF camera so technically advanced that new customers choose it over Canon and Nikon. That is not a quick or easy thing to do, so I think that is why FF is taking so long. But the K-3 exceeded my expectations, so I'm amongst the optimists.
I don't take it as rude at all.

Pentax probably went through the same decision 10,8,5,3... years ago, and has bled 10k customers a year as they buy someone else's FF. Pentax may have turned away another 20k APS-C new customers who don't buy into the system because it doesn't have a full spectrum of options... and another 100k APS-C new customers who won't buy something that Ken Rockwell doesn't think is a cool system.

For me, Pentax can choose to sell me a FF camera, or they can choose for me to displace their lens sales with my good-condition lenses.

PS - For the record if/when Pentax comes out with a new WR / QS 31mm + 77mm I might be back in the market, but someone else will be out of the market, buying two used lenses.
02-26-2014, 06:28 PM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Did asahi man ever say anything about lenses as fast as the competition's fastest? I don't think he did, FWIW.
No, that will not happen because that is not the company's goal.

Fast glass is big, no matter how hard you want to argue about it, and it cannot be with the photographer all the time. At least Pentax will refuse to give a photographer an excuse to go and buy a mirrorless system that is 100g lighter, and 10mm narrower as an 'excuse' for 'bulkiness of the DSLR'.

Users should put this more into their own perspective because it is damning paradoxical what they want. It is exactly because Nikon and Canon did make fast and big glass that this whole euphoria about 'mirrorless is small, therefore mirrorless is better' has taken off. Nikon and Canon are indeed shooting their feet.

Pentax is not going that direction. Why it is hard to accept? Because Nikon's and Canon's recipe does not work. It works in theory only, but in practice the opposite is true — when faced with realities of photography, and daily lives, people still choose smaller and lighter gear and Pentax caters for that.

RI wants to produce cameras that will always be next to photographers — clearly stated by newly appointed RI marketing manager Mr Murano. So the K-3 is perhaps the most extravagant and sturdy crop sensor camera we will see, yet is is smaller than many other DSLR. But lenses must remain small. Otherwise Pentax gives you and everyone an excuse to buy Fuji's X camera, which is 200-300 g lighter, but not as sturdy, not as uncompromising, and with lenses of same size and large diameters as faster Pentax glass. Yet people live in an illusion their gear must be better because the camera is smaller therefore 'everything is better'.

There is an enormous scale of self-induced illusions we have accepted as facts, and never bothered to think twice about them. I'm sometimes quite ashamed at the level of shallowness of thinking of the so called enthusiasts who desire paradoxical things and ruining their photography experience.

PS. And I still think that after the massive investment in various but necessary technologies (new mirror mechanism, new imaging processor, new metering sensor, new AA simulator, new software, new lens coating, new production models, etc.) Pentax really needs to speed up and deliver a small, polycarbonate K-mount body around some 450 grams in the style of classic film SLRs. As light as possible, no grip, and tailor-made for small limiteds. If I had to choose whether to have that with an inch long aluminium made DA21, or a Fuji X with a 62mm filter 23mm lens of 0.6 lb and partly made of plastic, I choose the former.

Last edited by Uluru; 02-26-2014 at 06:55 PM.
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