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02-24-2014, 09:51 AM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Actually, I was more disappointed at lack of some good (info on) compacts than anything about the FF. Compacts are much more exciting, and, damn!, what they want to do with that 2/35 lens patent?! Sounds incredibly delicious.
I hope we wonít wait until Fotokina in September to see something new in compacts arena?! I want a X100s killer, done properly in Pentax style!
The 'advanced' compact in Ricoh/Pentax, is the GR.

I hope it has more variations though... like a GR35 f2, a GR50 f1.8.

an advance compact with APSC size sensor in MX style is not bad either.

---------- Post added 02-24-2014 at 12:01 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photoephemere Quote
Some are looking for a full frame, some are looking for compact camera, some are looking for betters af motors, some are looking for da aperture coupler ...

And some don't matters and are making enormous pictures with their very well balanced K body ... It's the oldiest story of the world ... THE GREANEST GRASS ...

But how many of us do realy regulary have been locked and realy limited while using the enormous k3 and with such an emergency ?

isn't it just a simple complex introduced by the others while they don't have limited lenses, full wr ... ;-)

If tomorrow, god was coming and taking all your ricoh pack and gives you same elements with a d600 ... What will you say ? " Ok i'm a ff photographer, i 'll be famous ! "... Telling that af points are more centered when users talk of that point since the FF was launched ? Asking when will Nikon gives more double cross and 2.8 sensors as sensibles than -3il like Ricoh do with k3 ? Asking when will nikon gives you in this segment better wr ? asking when will Nikon gives you a monitor that rotate viewing setting when in portrait mode ? ... A better memory for continuous shooting ? Asking for a medium format ? Asking for a pro apsc ?...

In each paturage you will see advantages and disavantages ... it's the logical market rule and evolution ...

Grass is not more green anywhere else ... each others have advantages ... Just choose the system that gives you pleasure and just shoot, no maters what your interpretation of one could say can be because none of them could speak free ... and you won't know the true story in the name of "industrial and commercial strategy" ... and it doesn't matter ! ... ;-) the only frustation you should have is not in what camera you have or will have or not ... it's on your picture "famousness" ... ;-)

The only thing that matter is : Do you take pleasure using your camera ? Does it permit you to take all the pictures that you want ? Does its functionality gives you entire satisfaction ? Do you say "woahooo" when viewing your print pictures -> if not : is it you fault or the camera/manufacturer/Segment model one ?

Just saying : "Ricoh is dead" because there's no anoncement for a FF this Month is just like saying "Nikon is dead" because there's no anoncement of a pro apsc this month or MF this month ... it's not real information just a personal point of view ... just like saying " Oh my god !!!!!! what appened ????!!!!! i couldn't take pictures anymore with this system !!!! it 's unbelieavable and unuseable !!!! they didn't anounced a new camera this month !!! ... So looser they are !!!!!!! ... i won't shoot with anymore ... i'm gonna die ... " (joking) ...

isn't it ?
make sense.

I think, as fanboy we like to see our beloved brand brings out something new and exciting. So we can brag about it.
at the mean time, complaining doesn't affect one learning photography in parallel.

we complain, we shoot, too.

02-24-2014, 01:54 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by Hogdriver Quote
Pentax/Ricoh needs to replace their entire PR staff of "experts" and start listening to its consumers. Action speaks louder then words...and the lack of both at the CP+ show points to a dimming future.
They do listen to customers. That is beside the point. But this interview could have been better, that is true. It is the skill that comes with experience.
The interview could have been much better if there were not 18 technical questions with 1 minute dedicated for each to answer, but rather well constructed 5 questions, with a lot of time left to the representatives to ramble in answering them, allowing some other new (contextual) questions to be posed as the story develops.
02-24-2014, 06:06 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
It is the issue of a much larger question of a company's integrity and values it cherishes as a platform to start communicating effectively with its audience.
I find it amazing that people get offended by a company preferring to keep its market and development plans "close to the vest". It has been my experience that this is the norm and not the exception. Last I heard, there still remains a certain advantage to not showing your hand when playing cards.


Steve
02-24-2014, 06:10 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I find it amazing that people get offended by a company preferring to keep its market and development plans "close to the vest". It has been my experience that this is the norm and not the exception. Last I heard, there still remains a certain advantage to not showing your hand when playing cards.


Steve

I'm not among the offended.

I think a roadmap is appropriate for people who have to believe in a system, so at least Ricoh gave us that.

These particular interviewee's seemed to give no further information (maybe even less?) than before. So it's a bummer to not have info that you otherwise could to make an informed decision.

02-24-2014, 06:15 PM   #65
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From Question 13: It’s our impression that Pentax users are more likely to use their cameras outdoors - what we call a field photographer.

I think this statement says (or implies) a lot about Ricoh's perspective and outlook. As a happy Pentax shooter, I could consider myself a 'field photographer.' Maybe the future with Pentax is bright after all!

- Craig

PS. Adam, thanks for the interview.
02-24-2014, 06:15 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I find it amazing that people get offended by a company preferring to keep its market and development plans "close to the vest". It has been my experience that this is the norm and not the exception. Last I heard, there still remains a certain advantage to not showing your hand when playing cards.
Steve
Well, it is to be expected that Mr Kawauchi is not the best person to have an interview with.

Unfortunately, last three interviews Pentax Forums had were all with him! I wonder was that a deliberate choice imposed by Ricoh Imaging, because some Japanese journalists and newspapers can talk to more senior and development staff and indulge in details and in atmosphere which Pentax Forums is definitely prohibited from.

It almost seems to me that they say, “Here are the bugging ones, let’s keep them at arm’s length — send them Kawauchi-san. He’ll put them to sleep in 10 minutes”. He shuts the conversation from going on, says everything is secret and not a matter of discussing, all without any courtesy or incentive to broaden the talk about company’s imaging philosophy in general. If he comes with somebody else, that somebody else (often an engineering manger) usually talks concrete detail, but is often shut up by him. He answers so vaguely in addition to the lacklustre performance that it may indeed be a translation’s error in many of his statements.

Last edited by Uluru; 02-24-2014 at 06:23 PM.
02-24-2014, 06:34 PM   #67
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We have to keep in mind that Ricoh/Pentax is a large for-profit company; Their goal is to make the most amount of money they can. If they share their juicy secrets to us, they are sharing them to the world (and not just us). Part of that world consists of various competitors who would love to know 6-8-10 months down the road what any of their competitors are releasing. Those competitors are looking to make the most amount of money they can too. So it is unhelpful for any company to share their more detailed product roadmaps too far out when competition is so closely defined.

tl:dr: As much as we'd all love to know what is on the horizon, It is very bad business practice to show your hand before your products are ready for release. (and give your competitors time to counter)
02-24-2014, 06:46 PM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
tl:dr: As much as we'd all love to know what is on the horizon, It is very bad business practice to show your hand before your products are ready for release. (and give your competitors time to counter)
A company can say 'we're going to release a camera' without saying 'we'll emulate an AA filter with sensor motion'.

The line you need to walk is not an ocean wide and not razor sharp. Ricoh's goal should be to maximize profits, sure - and to that end that should excite the customers so that the customers don't leave, while at the same time not tipping off the competitors to the fine details about what is going to come out.

02-24-2014, 06:48 PM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
..
tl:dr: As much as we'd all love to know what is on the horizon, It is very bad business practice to show your hand before your products are ready for release. (and give your competitors time to counter)
Many confuse the situation some manufacturers are in.

For example, Fujifilmís camera division which starts from scratch and has no mounts to think about but a brand new one, has no big past investments or concerns to think about and protect. Their way of thinking is future-oriented only. So they can talk at great length about their future plans and roadmaps to stimulate the imagination of their prospective new users and draw ideas from them too.

Nikon cannot have such a luxury, and Ricoh Imaging, now with three mounts to care about, even less so.

Sigma, of course, can talk about anything they want as they share the design and manufacturing cost across different mounts, have a great economy of scale, and invite everyone to talk about anything they like.

That is why Fujifilm and Sigma guys appear nice and charming. However, it does seems Ricoh Imaging is indeed dismissive towards the western media, and keeps everything at armís length. Japanese journalists are granted more insight and a warmer welcome.
02-24-2014, 07:08 PM   #70
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Our time horizon and their time horizon are in disharmony. Our expectations and their expectations are in disharmony. It has always been so where West meets Japan.

Nikon and Canon and Sony and even Fuji and Panasonic have a large presence in the West and are accustomed to Western expectations. Ricoh Imaging does not. Ricoh in USA is still IKON Office systems in large measure, so even B2B isn't fully accepted here yet.

Had we not lost faith in Denver over the last decade we might be comfortable asking JM these questions and accepting the answers, but that relationship has not yet been restored. It will be but it is yet to happen. I imagine from reading here there are similar issues in Aus, but fewer in Canada and EU.

I plan to be patient and enjoy what I have. I have that luxury because I don't use the product professionally and the K3 is good enough to keep me happy and busy for another year or two.
02-24-2014, 08:07 PM - 1 Like   #71
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I found that the questions were structured in a way to elicit yes, no, can't say answers. We know they will play close to the vest and won't reveal future releases, so why bother asking.

I want to know what they are thinking in terms of market segments.

So with the Flucard, ask who do they think will be buying and using it, and how have they addressed that perceived market.

I'd ask how can a wedding photographer best use the Pentax system, with some shortcomings in mind for secondary questions.

The Pentax gear is weather proofed almost across the line, what would someone who shoots birds purchase and why, again with an eye for secondary questions.

I'd ask what they shoot with personally, what style of shooting do they enjoy, and how does the Pentax system fill their needs. Have you got one of your shots to show us?

Landscape in another segment. Sports shooting, street shooting. Etc. There are Pentax products that touch these segments, let's hear about them and what they think

I find the technical buzzwords meaningless. Full frame, mirrorless, medium format. Sure they are descriptive, but only useful as a means to an end, the end being a piece of equipment optimized for a specific segment or style of photography.
02-24-2014, 08:25 PM   #72
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You guys are totally correct. Telling the world "We are actively working on a FF camera and we plan to have it released in the third quarter of 2014", basically giving their user SOME hope, is totally going to spill ALL the "juicy secrets" and throw Nikon and Canon off balance. CaNikon will immediately have to come up with response strategies to react to SUCH specific information and all the benefit of being sneaky will be gone. Touche Pentax. Always one step ahead of everyone else.
02-24-2014, 10:18 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by oxidized Quote
You guys are totally correct. Telling the world "We are actively working on a FF camera and we plan to have it released in the third quarter of 2014", basically giving their user SOME hope, is totally going to spill ALL the "juicy secrets" and throw Nikon and Canon off balance. CaNikon will immediately have to come up with response strategies to react to SUCH specific information and all the benefit of being sneaky will be gone. Touche Pentax. Always one step ahead of everyone else.

oh.. sarcastically mocking me by wrapping it around a strawman (based on 'FF')..


We're a society of instant gratification and 'need' to know now.

Sorry, Ricoh isn't rolling out the red carpet for any of us.. no fast food, plastic wrapped, microwave instant meal here.. we'll just have to be patient like everyone else who doesn't have a paystub with 'Ricoh' at the top to see what they release when they are both (a) good and (b) ready.

And you say 'just give us a high level statement that X product is in the works.' However, you know as well as I it would not end there.. next would be questions on who makes the sensor.. megapixel count.. autofocus technology.. mount type.. etc. It is opening "Pandora's box" by answering just one question at high level.

Even though you don't see it, upcoming product information is rather valuable information. To them, competitors, and to end users.

Ricoh also want to continue selling their current products at current (or higher) amounts.. Since the 'friendly' discussion has reverted back to Full Frame for the umpteenth time, I'll use it as an example -- What happens if Ricoh states tomorrow 'Full Frame body released in X months' ?? Do people rush out and buy K-3 bodies and/or crop sensor designed lenses? NO! They hold on to what they have or, at the best, stock up on Full Frame designed lenses in hopes they'll mount to that upcoming FF body.

That is pretty bad news for Ricoh in the short term. Especially since APS-C based cameras still make up ~90% of the market. They don't want to hurt that segment. It could also harm them somewhat longer down the road if they re-release updated versions of their camera lenses for the new body as you now won't be buying since you bought the older versions in anticipation of the then announced FF system.


In any case, irregardless on if you believe what I say or not, one truth that needs to be stated over and over ...and over... .......and over at Pentax Forums is we all need to try patience or find another camera system if one can no longer wait. That, and if anyone is not taking photographs they find interesting with their current camera, a larger sensor in a more expensive camera body isn't going to resolve this issue.
02-24-2014, 11:16 PM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
In any case, irregardless on if you believe what I say or not, one truth that needs to be stated over and over ...and over... .......and over at Pentax Forums is we all need to try patience or find another camera system if one can no longer wait. That, and if anyone is not taking photographs they find interesting with their current camera, a larger sensor in a more expensive camera body isn't going to resolve this issue.
I appreciate the sentiments, but this is not an issue about the FF.
It is a broader issue of, as Monochrome has noted, cultural and philosophical differences.

There is a chasm of misunderstanding of what and how Ricoh Imaging should communicate with their user base in the west. And that communication was not, and should never be just about one certain issue — good Lord, we cannot talk to them in a relaxed way even about some general, philosophical issues about imaging!

They seem to be constipated, and we relentless and stubborn, regardless of subject.

Last edited by Uluru; 02-24-2014 at 11:26 PM.
02-25-2014, 01:03 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
Ricoh also want to continue selling their current products at current (or higher) amounts.. Since the 'friendly' discussion has reverted back to Full Frame for the umpteenth time, I'll use it as an example -- What happens if Ricoh states tomorrow 'Full Frame body released in X months' ?? Do people rush out and buy K-3 bodies and/or crop sensor designed lenses? NO! They hold on to what they have or, at the best, stock up on Full Frame designed lenses in hopes they'll mount to that upcoming FF body.
And when the FF is announced, they would be furious that it's not under $1000 as speculated - and won't buy it either

Uluru, which question was "about some general, philosophical issues about imaging"? IMHO they were all quite specific, and so were the answers.
Some of the questions were useless, like asking about the already announced release date for FluCard, or thinking that they could somehow control the third-party lens makers. Many others were asking for details about future products. We were asking for those questions.
Except for Ballmer's monkey dance, I don't see what else they could do. But monkey dance wouldn't add any information...

Mr. Hajime Murano, OTOH, was not asked such questions so he could speak freely; but besides presenting the Pentax/Ricoh line-up (which it should be normal, since they are entering the Indian market) there isn't new information in that video. Wait, maybe they'll have a new high zoom compact.
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