[codiac2600]

I didnt miss any point. I just didnt see any valid argument. Have you ever considered that people find faults to your statements cos they are faulty? I think that you would do an extraordinary job as a moderator if you apply some self-criticism to your arguments. To learn to respect other people disagreements would be also useful. You have a clear trend to use passive-aggresive arguments to attack others while trying to look like a victim. You may blame me about having some of these deffects but I would ask you to consider 2 points: first, I do back up (not always I recognize that) when I think that I am wrong (sometimes even if dont think it) and second, I am not a moderator (actually is the last thing I would like to be). I wouldnt like that you take this as an attack but if you do it I wont strike back.

Seriously??? again??? Blah blah blah...

The problem that you dont seem to see is that there are thousands of examples of people having similar or better results with Canon, Nikon.... But the main problem that you dont seem to understand is that not all the people are as gifted as those that you put as an example. Most of the people dont have the talent, time or determination to make their hobby something stressful and succed with the use of a system that it is not optimal to those tasks. Please, keep that in mind when you consider other people's complains.

There you go again, "examples of people having similar or better results with Canon, Nikon...."

You always have to make the quick remark that Canon and Nikon users get better photos. Grow up dude seriously. You try and make me look bad but you always have to jump into a thread when it's Pro Pentax and jab in that Nikon and Canon is better.

There is a small handful of people who do this on and off and it's just sad. Like I said if they are such great cameras why don't people navigate towards that end of the spectrum.

Your argument agrees with mine I made a long time ago on this thread that you totally missed. It's the photographer honing his skill and improving not the gear, like Walter and Marc and hundreds of others on this forum and many more in this world that don't frequent forums because of this garbage on here. I know you'll refuse to believe that and make me look bad again, but who cares, I'm not here to make people happy.

Seriously??? again??? Blah blah blah...



There you go again, "examples of people having similar or better results with Canon, Nikon...."

You always have to make the quick remark that Canon and Nikon users get better photos. Grow up dude seriously. You try and make me look bad but you always have to jump into a thread when it's Pro Pentax and jab in that Nikon and Canon is better.

There is a small handful of people who do this on and off and it's just sad. Like I said if they are such great cameras why don't people navigate towards that end of the spectrum.

Your argument agrees with mine I made a long time ago on this thread that you totally missed. It's the photographer honing his skill and improving not the gear, like Walter and Marc and hundreds of others on this forum and many more in this world that don't frequent forums because of this garbage on here. I know you'll refuse to believe that and make me look bad again, but who cares, I'm not here to make people happy.

Just remember that I am not the one who said that the new pentax would blow all other cameras on the world out of the water nor I have never said that pentax is a bad system. I only said that Pentax doesnt qualify as an optimal system for sport/wildlife (and I keep it). I also said that the main advantage of Pentax over other other systems was the price/quality relationship and that is not true anymore. I also said that other systems are more complete and I dare you to show me wrong. And I have said and I will keep it saying cos it is the truth is that Canon and nikon are better suited that pentax for sport/wildlife period. The fact that you dont understand (or are not interested in recognize) is that Pentax doesnt have to be the best system of the world to appeal to other users. Besides, I dare you to show me where did I say that pentax is bad for fashion, portraits, street photography and similar. I dont try to make you look bad, you look bad cos of your vanity and superiority complex.

[Andrew Faires]

What are you talking about? This is not a personal displeasure at his switch but his constant shallow mindedness because Pentax doesn't do what he wants and people don't agree with him. He ignores that others are getting top quality results with the system and makes accusations that are unsound and has even pointed out specific forum members because he doesn't understand them or like what their answers are. He has pointed myself, Ben, Steve, Roland and others out because we are all apparently owned by Pentax in some way shape or form.

People have an uncanny habit of answering with their own interests at heart. You, Ben, roland and others are happy with the direction Pentax has taken. Good enough for me. However, when others critisize that direction and people rush to defend Pentax over and over again, it's a bit much...especially when part of that defence involves critisisms of the individual's skill in comparison to others (your comments about Tom's missed shots versus the top birders in your area as one of many examples floating around these forums), get labelled as trolls because the wanted to see Pentax move in a different direction, or get labelled as "whiners" etc.

And the reason for my comments about the personal displeasure are because you raked Tom over the coals for not even trying a k20d that didn't appeal to him in the first place. His choice - same as the k20d was yours. Why question it or take exception to it?

And whether you meant it in this regard or not, it looked very much like damage-control as opposed to a well thought-out reply.

I really don't care what people shoot and have told people numerous times that if you don't feel like you can get what you want with what you have then by all means move on and do it. Tom has nit picked and argued his point about everything always making little off topic jabs to make himself feel better. He has truly become a RH and I point it out and I'm a hater because of his brand switch??? I don't get it, I guess people always have to look deep into the what I write to find stuff they don't like because it's fun to do or something.

No, Tom hasn't become a RH. I don't care what motivates RH but Tom's comments about what he wanted were based on his needs and how he wants to use the camera. Whether you like his delivery is up to you. However, his critisisms of the gear/what he was looking for are valid - whether you use the gear like that or not.

I may praise Pentax but it's because I use it and understand it's shortcomings and work around it and make money shooting with my gear. Could I personally shoot another brand? Yes... would I? not till they make something I want and does what I need. I think it's rude to come in and find points in what I said to make me look bad, but hey I don't expect people to understand me.

And make no mistake Chris, I think you've got a boat-load of talent whith your photography. And I sincerely meant it when I said you've added a great deal of value to the forum.

However, as far as my 'finding points to make you look bad' goes, the points I used when I quoted you were faithful to your overall message and the points I made - rude or not - are valid.

[codiac2600]

Just remember that I am not the one who said that the new pentax would blow all other cameras on the world out of the water nor I have never said that pentax is a bad system. I only said that Pentax doesnt qualify as an optimal system for sport/wildlife (and I keep it). I also said that the main advantage of Pentax over other other systems was the price/quality relationship and that is not true anymore. I also said that other systems are more complete and I dare you to show me wrong. And I have said and I will keep it saying cos it is the truth is that Canon and nikon are better suited that pentax for sport/wildlife period. The fact that you dont understand (or are not interested in recognize) is that Pentax doesnt have to be the best system of the world to appeal to other users. Besides, I dare you to show me where did I say that pentax is bad for fashion, portraits, street photography and similar. I dont try to make you look bad, you look bad cos of your vanity and superiority complex.

Oh gosh... dude you're honestly just silly.

You missed my whole point in this thread and many others. You are again taking me out of context.

I'm just going to go ahead and be civil and bow out of this because it's useless talking to rude and vengeful minded people.

Oh gosh... dude you're honestly just silly.

You missed my whole point in this thread and many others. You are again taking me out of context.

I'm just going to go ahead and be civil and bow out of this because it's useless talking to rude and vengeful minded people.

You are right I am silly. I even thought that you have something in your brain besides that peaceful crickets sounds that a few can enjoy.

THe silly will retire of this (intent of) civil conversation with you.

[Cambo]

Oh gosh... dude you're honestly just silly.

You missed my whole point in this thread and many others. You are again taking me out of context.

I'm just going to go ahead and be civil and bow out of this because it's useless talking to rude and vengeful minded people.

about *iSteve's posts to me.

Some people around here just need a nice 12" Prozac suppository; I'd be glad to insert it for them.



Cheers,
Cameron

[regken]

Once everyone acts like this maybe I'll think about it. I speak from my mind and honesty has always been my strong point even though people take it differently. And I did explain it in another post which you missed and again are trying to find faults in my statements.

Cris,
I have been reading your posts since you joined this forum and am sad to say I have noticed you have taken on a much more militant "Pentax is right" attitude in the last several months. For the most part this is a community of hobbyists and semi pros. Our common bond is our Pentax equipment. We don't owe anything to Pentax but we do have an obligation to our fellow forum members. That obligation is to be helpful and honest with each other in making this a more enjoyable hobby.

It seems to me you have lost sight of this. To be a Pentax first advocate in your store is one thing but to carry it over to a community of people looking for assistance is not helpful or completely honest. Your attack on Tom was uncalled for and am sorry to see some people on this forum going down this road.

Ken

[Rener]

As usual, what I noticed in the forum is that whenever there is a so called review and Pentax comes out "bad", there are few who always drown the many satisfied Pentax users. This AF issue is just overblown, yes. there are some who easily blame the AF of Pentax and there are many who are more than capable of using their skill level that have no issue at all. What gives? My 2 cents worth.

PLS. see this link, shots by lol101. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/25294-k20d-af-trac...ific-test.html


Cheers,

Rene

[BeerCan]

As usual, what I noticed in the forum is that whenever there is a so called review and Pentax comes out "bad", there are few who always drown the many satisfied Pentax users. This AF issue is just overblown, yes. there are some who easily blame the AF of Pentax and there are many who are more than capable of using their skill level that have no issue at all. What gives? My 2 cents worth.

PLS. see this link, shots by lol101. https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/25294-k20d-af-trac...ific-test.html


Cheers,

Rene

I don't think the AF issue is overblown at all. I think it just depends on your shooting style if it affects you. I am a fairly new Pentax user (coming from the original rebel) and there are some situations where I will have a lens go all the way to infinity and back, sometimes 2 or 3 times, before I give up and try MF. I have missed quite a few shots because of it. Not to mention the strange looks and remarks I get in my photog class. (that screw drive is loud )

Showing links to peoples shots is IMHO worthless because it cannot show the one thing that the AF issues cause me -- missed shots.

So one can bag on my skills if they want but in the same environment my classmates are getting more keepers than I am. I will say however that I have much better pictures when I do finally manage to get one

[*isteve]

about *iSteve's posts to me.

Some people around here just need a nice 12" Prozac suppository; I'd be glad to insert it for them.



Cheers,
Cameron

From your original post....

"Simply stupid. This is an awful day for the brand. They have only themselves to blame."

And you think I am the one that needs a prozac? Sheesh. As for your suggestion above, I rest my case. Juvenile in the extreme.

[*isteve]

And until this forum gets renamed to the "Praise Pentax Circle-jerk", I think anyone who does have an opinion - good or bad - about the brand should be welcome to post their thoughts on the current products and what they want to see in the future. If this includes reasons why they decided to move on to a different brand, then that should be welcome too as well.

I understand your point, but I understand Chris as well. Tom has been a little overenthusiastic when attacking Ben, Roland and others including Chris as fanboys or being paid by Pentax, all of which was pointless. I can understand why Chris sees red sometimes.

I hope Tom has more luck with his D300. It is a better nature camera. Nature and sport do test the high-speed aspects of a cameras envelope more than the ultimate quality angle and Nikon do have quite a few long USM lenses so its a good kit for a nature photog.

I can live with Pentax's choices and he couldn't so he made the right decision, just as I need the extra MP and in-body SR with WA lenses for interiors and Nikon dont have that.

However having managed to get hold of a FA* 300 F4.5 I would have to say its one fabulous lens and very sharp indeed. It also focuses very fast indeed on my K20D, although its so noisy it would scare off any animal you were creeping up on. I also have a FA*200 F2.8 which is also very nice but shows a bit more PF than the 300.

[Arpe]

I am saving for the K20D - I am into martial arts and I combine photography with my sport and guess what I take photos as a hobby - not for money - and even better I enjoy it.

I have upgraded from istDs to K20D just as you hope to do, when your funds allow I'm sure you will be much happier with the K20D.

We should find out whether HSM (ring lens motor) really helps soon when Sigma releases their 70-200/2.8 HSM. I suspect it will more than SDM did :-)

Yes. Really really loking foward to that one.

[Rener]

Hello BEERCAN, I think showing link that shows Pentax AF performance is not a bad idea, for the uniniated reading all about the bad rap that Pentax is getting might think that it's AF is no match for a slow moving turtle, at least they have something to see and go from there. Lost opportunity?, your'e not alone, even those pro who use the machine gun approach have to accept the fact that not every thing is a keeper, of course they have more hits because of the shooting style. In all honesty how many of us here do the same, most of the posted pictures takes time to compose and frame the subject, if there are any BIF or sports or racing car for that matter, it is because of the learnig curb. Having a high frame rate and a split second faster AF is no guaranty for instant success.

Cheers,

Rene

[lol101]

I did read it. Pentax came last, not by a little, but by a long shot. I did not spell 'the doom' of Pentax. I was horrified at the results. You would think a company who started autofocus many years ago would have had a better system by now. The results were deplorable. I said nothing of the demise of Pentax.

And talking about reading deficiencies; I also did not say Ben was signing up with another maker, nor anything about the falling out.

You are WAY too serious about this stuff; lighten up. I didn't say half the stuff you accuse me of. And even if I did, I'm entitled to my opinion, and have certainly formed a strong negative opinion about you now.



Cameron

When you write that you were "horrified at the results" or "results were deplorable" don't you think that YOU are way too serious about that?

Really, the K10 AF tracking was bad, the K20 isn't. I get the same keeper rate in AF-C with the K20 than with my 30D at 3fps... hardly "horrifying" or "deplorable" really.

See this thread for some examples but the best would be to try it yourself if you have the opportunity.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/25294-k20d-af-trac...ific-test.html

[Ishpuini]

Just one addition to this thread. I don't see it mentioned anywhere (but I might have missed it since I stopped reading once the personal posts appeared) but the test was done with the DA*50-135/2.8.

Should we just mention fot the sake of being complete that this is possibly the slowest focussing lens of the DA setup? And as such not really any bases for any conclusions on the AF speed of the K20D body at all? Ok, there's no lenses made by Pentax currently that can be compared to the other brands...

Wim