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04-03-2014, 07:32 AM   #91
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Besides FF is for wimps, real photographers shoot MF

04-03-2014, 10:01 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That can be managed now,Viable against Canon and Nikon isn't really the issue - they cannot and don't want to compete there, really, at least not for a significant slice of their share. Neither designing nor selling 'enough' lenses is an issue. The issue is wedging enough Pentax-quality, modern FF lenses into a relatively tight production schedule.

The economics of FF disappear if Ricoh expands production facilities and adds employees just for FF lenses. They've been selling existing inventory for over two years.

Nevertheless, I think it is coming late this year.
I agree FF is coming, but the problem fundamentally for Pentax has never been technical. Sensor availability was the dominant issue, but also is the problem of how many $2,000+ bodies can a company sell? Any body above $1,500 really falls off a cliff in terms of unit sales. The internet chatter does not live up to the sales volumes.

If this market has plateaued because of price, then FF DSLR (and by definition MF DSLR's as well) will have to fall in price. So Ricoh can expand all they want for FF, but their market actually contracts if the price does not fall correspondingly. There's no squaring that circle.

I expect to see a next gen Sony sensor for FF coming out of their re-acquired Toshiba fabs about now, for Fall models. That looks to be the volume nudge. This logically follows if the 645Z is using a Sony sensor. Sony industrial went on an upgrade tear 18 months ago, splitting their fabs between small sensor (phones) and large sensor (dedicated cameras).

For the 645Z volumes are already severely constrained due to price, so this is not a sensor that needs a long production run.

---------- Post added 04-03-14 at 02:01 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Bassie Quote
Besides FF is for wimps, real photographers shoot MF
Real photographers shoot film.
04-03-2014, 11:04 AM   #93
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My hope: The New "Z" format carries on where the modular GXR ends. Large camera body with short flange (mirrorless) but purchased with modular Z/645/K (adapters) mounts and either the $10K (MF) sensor or the $2K (FF) one. EVF and tethering via FLU. FF sales subsidize MF sales or other way. Wannabe "serious" camera carriers buy the $2k FF version to look like they carry $10K in camera gear. Adapters allow mounting hassy lenses if desired.
04-03-2014, 11:19 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stickler Quote
My hope: The New "Z" format carries on where the modular GXR ends. Large camera body with short flange (mirrorless) but purchased with modular Z/645/K (adapters) mounts and either the $10K (MF) sensor or the $2K (FF) one. EVF and tethering via FLU. FF sales subsidize MF sales or other way. Wannabe "serious" camera carriers buy the $2k FF version to look like they carry $10K in camera gear. Adapters allow mounting hassy lenses if desired.
If it has no LCD but only wi fi connection with an iPad is the camera for me. Modular, optional EFV is ok.

04-03-2014, 12:21 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Stickler Quote
My hope: The New "Z" format carries on where the modular GXR ends. Large camera body with short flange (mirrorless) but purchased with modular Z/645/K (adapters) mounts and either the $10K (MF) sensor or the $2K (FF) one. EVF and tethering via FLU. FF sales subsidize MF sales or other way. Wannabe "serious" camera carriers buy the $2k FF version to look like they carry $10K in camera gear. Adapters allow mounting hassy lenses if desired.
Sounds interesting...but i thought they have already shown the prototype for this at photokina:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/251515-japanese-art...-pictures.html

Looks to be a 645D update.
04-03-2014, 01:23 PM   #96
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I wonder how many they've already built.
04-03-2014, 01:30 PM - 1 Like   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
I wonder how many they've already built.
04-03-2014, 01:45 PM - 4 Likes   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Real photographers shoot film.
Real photographers shoot photos and do something with them. I need to spend less time on the forum.

04-03-2014, 01:54 PM - 1 Like   #99
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Conservative 2,000 units for starts, with rumours that 80% were already pre-sold in Japan during the CP+ — no matter what the new 645 brings.
645Z will claim an absolute top image quality performance on this planet a consumer can buy. Apparently, they have poured in lots of energy and commitment into this. Almost all people working on K-3 were reassigned in the end to work on the 645Z.
04-03-2014, 02:12 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Conservative 2,000 units for starts, with rumours that 80% were already pre-sold in Japan during the CP+ — no matter what the new 645 brings.
645Z will claim an absolute top image quality performance on this planet a consumer can buy. Apparently, they have poured in lots of energy and commitment into this. Almost all people working on K-3 were reassigned in the end to work on the 645Z.
Interesting info - thanks.

By "top image quality performance a consumer can buy" you must be making assumptions about affordability, by not including everything that's available on the consumer market. Many people who can afford a $10,000 camera could also afford a $40,000 one, so I'm not sure how you can arbitrarily determine a cutoff price. Except in low light or other demanding conditions, an IQ180 back on a Hasselblad or Phase One body with a great lens will still win. And an 8x10 or larger film camera will also win, if you don't mind carrying it around. So there are obviously some preconceived assumptions here.


But I shouldn't sound so negative, because I actually wholeheartedly agree with you, given such assumptions. I really believe it will be a standout camera - the best you can possibly do without making huge sacrifices in other areas.
04-03-2014, 02:53 PM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Real photographers shoot film.
Real photographers shoot glass plate..........
04-03-2014, 03:11 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Real photographers shoot glass plate..........
Wet or dry?



Real photographers shoot
04-03-2014, 03:12 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Real photographers shoot glass plate..........
Real photographers stand in a dark room with a very tiny hole in one wall, and trace the image formed on the other wall.

04-03-2014, 03:12 PM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Real photographers shoot glass plate.........
Real photographers shoot great photos, whatever the medium
04-03-2014, 03:16 PM   #105
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It's the 21st century guys. Real photographers shoot with cell phones.

Last edited by geomez; 04-03-2014 at 05:55 PM.
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