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04-23-2008, 10:31 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gruoso Quote
I dont think that you are wrong but apply your thinking on buying something that you dont know very well (laundry machines, microwave, mattress....) When you are clueless what is one of the first things you consider? Would you buy a device with similar specs and unknown for the same price that one well-known? I am not saying that this is the right thinking but I think that it is the most-frequent.
If I am cluless I do some research, just as I did before I bought my K10D. I was presidposed to Pentax as I already had lenses from my MX but I still researched the product to make sure it performed well enough for my needs.

My orginal point was that I don't think using Ben's photos for market Pentax products would have a great impact on sales. No offense to Ben, but the average Joe on the street has no clue who Ben is. Secondly, his style of photography is very subjective. Again no offense, but his images and his style of photography don't do anything for me. Technically the images are great, but that is all I can say about them. If the target audience is Ben's style of fashion photography then my point is moot. If you are talking about marketing to the masses I think my point is valid.

04-23-2008, 10:41 AM   #92
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Well I don't shoot PJ or weddings and neither does my wife, but that didn't prevent us from starting off sure that we wanted a D200 and nothing to do with Pentax. We'd seen Nikons everywhere and our wedding photographer had them. I also get impressed by sports photos, I've seen those big R2D2 appendages lining the sidelines at every sporting event I've ever attended, as well as the big Canon banners hanging from the seating ledges and playing on the jumbo TV thing. If my wife didn't already have a severe aversion to Canon (she hates the cheap feel to the rebel series that she used in school), I would have been looking into a 30D as well. I would have done my research and probably ended up at Pentax anyway, but I admit that I had some pre-conceived notions about what camera I should get going in. Believe me, the attendant at the Camera store did his best to try and re-enforce those notions and push certain products on me. It's the reason I ended up not purchasing there in the end.

SLC
04-23-2008, 11:02 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by SGT Quote
If I am cluless I do some research, just as I did before I bought my K10D. I was presidposed to Pentax as I already had lenses from my MX but I still researched the product to make sure it performed well enough for my needs.

My orginal point was that I don't think using Ben's photos for market Pentax products would have a great impact on sales. No offense to Ben, but the average Joe on the street has no clue who Ben is. Secondly, his style of photography is very subjective. Again no offense, but his images and his style of photography don't do anything for me. Technically the images are great, but that is all I can say about them. If the target audience is Ben's style of fashion photography then my point is moot. If you are talking about marketing to the masses I think my point is valid.
I guess that for some people that research might be hard to do cos you need to compile a lot knowledge about terminology and stuff to understand the specs.

I also agree with you, Ben wasnt going to change the whole scenario, but 50-100 Bens around the world would have made a difference. And remember that fashion TV programs are growing like mushrooms and I have seem some people asking what kind of gigacamera are the photog shooting, I am sure that most of the time they are using Hasselblads and the impact on lower level camera is null cos hasselblad is not consumer oriented, but with Pentax the effect would be different.
04-23-2008, 11:17 AM   #94
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I'll vouch for that

QuoteOriginally posted by SLC Flyfishing Quote
Well I don't shoot PJ or weddings and neither does my wife, but that didn't prevent us from starting off sure that we wanted a D200 and nothing to do with Pentax. We'd seen Nikons everywhere and our wedding photographer had them. I also get impressed by sports photos, I've seen those big R2D2 appendages lining the sidelines at every sporting event I've ever attended, as well as the big Canon banners hanging from the seating ledges and playing on the jumbo TV thing. If my wife didn't already have a severe aversion to Canon (she hates the cheap feel to the rebel series that she used in school), I would have been looking into a 30D as well. I would have done my research and probably ended up at Pentax anyway, but I admit that I had some pre-conceived notions about what camera I should get going in. Believe me, the attendant at the Camera store did his best to try and re-enforce those notions and push certain products on me. It's the reason I ended up not purchasing there in the end.

SLC
I only have a Pentax now because when I finally decided to buy a DSLR and give up on Minolta in late 2003, I had my heart set on the Canon 10D. However I saw the *istD asnd was blow away by its compact lines and neat interface, so I asked if I could try it and an hour later walked out of the shop with it.

I was probably in one of the only shops in London that stocked them at the time, otherwise I would now be a Canon owner. Not that I would have known any better at the time but as it turned out Pentax was a better system for my use than any Nikon or Canon I could afford and nothing has changed since (though I was a bit nervous before the K10D came out).

04-23-2008, 12:24 PM   #95
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Best wishes, Ben. I'm not surprised by your announcement.

If you don't have one already, go get a Nikon D3. If I could afford it, that's what I would do. ;-)

Oh, and if you do talk to anybody at Pentax, please let them know that I am available to take your place as Sponsored Photographer, and let them know that I am willing to do whatever they ask. If necessary, I will even wear a Pentax gimme cap.

Will
04-23-2008, 11:13 PM   #96
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Can not understand the confusion and disbelief here

After reading through the posts in this thread I find myself scratching my head. Most sponsorshipís are short term affairs. Companies give items to talented individual to use. Artistic creations are used to promote product. Company drops sponsor and gains a new one to ensure that they do not get caught in a routine and that the look is always changing and emerging to catch the eye of their desired / intended market. Benís style, while striking and leading in a fashion industry, did not represent the market share that Pentax needs to go after. Manufactures have tried using big well known names to promote product (which costs them serious dollars, and put them at risk if the well know name gets into trouble), and they have peppered out their wares and let an army of talented (but perhaps undiscovered) users / artists create ideas and images that cover a huge potential of interests that can be applied across many different market positions.
For every K20 that Pentax will sell to a pro, semi pro, or talented shooter, they will sell 10 to someone that wants to capture their kids. Last time I looked those people were not thumbing through fashion magazines or going to galleries........ they were at McDonald with a mini van load of soccer rats, or wiping birthday cake icing off their youngsters nose, or a family on a camping trip of day hike.
The compact point and shoot market is a money loser while the high end market is full of pretentious snobs. That leaves one difficult market in between, with the first finger / toe hold being the biggest and easiest to cling to. I applaud Pentax for kicking out decent gear for a reasonable and competitive price, and still leading the way and pushing the consumer envelope.
04-23-2008, 11:39 PM   #97
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I have shoot Pentax 12 years ago with my dad's MX and a 50/1.2 on it, a great lens. When I decided to go on digital I did some research with C and N because everybody said they're the best, but finally I ended up with K10d in my hand because I saw Ben's work and immediately I knew that it's not about the camera, it's about the user who made the images.
That's how Ben's impacted me.
04-24-2008, 12:02 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
You have it right. People see all those white lenses at a sporting event or gear used in some form of public media and assume they will get a better quality unit simply because the "Pros use one so it must be better" Funny thing is the pros will use whatever free stuff they can get with a few $$ attached.

All those TV commercials, shows about photography and print ads, just scream at the new buyer that Canon and Nikon are the only things to consider.
true, last year i was lucky enough too shoot at a few drift events in southern california, I had the only PENTAX in a 5 mile radius guaranteed, and the official photogs all shot canon, their pictures are posted on their websites, and mine are posted in a small place; flickr, my images top theirs...

right now im lovin that im the only shooting a k1000 in my photography class, with an mx spare in the bag...

Pentax needs to fix this issue, because its heart breaking

04-24-2008, 02:01 AM   #99
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PS...From my "Spring" Magazine Shoot Yesteerday

PS...There were perhaps thirty people who came to the "Spring Magazine" shoot yesterday and several asked "Pentax?" Another person stated, "I would have thought Canon or Nikon! Wow, 'You are using Pentax?' I just went out and bought the Nikon D300. If I would have known you were using Pentax, I would have purchased the K20D."

I SHIT YOU NOT.....That IS the consumer mind set.
04-24-2008, 02:11 AM   #100
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What a wasted opportunity by Pentax!
I'm so disappointed, they really don't know how to promote their cameras
You are a great artist and everyone who reads this board can easily understand how helpful you are to many pentaxians
04-24-2008, 03:31 AM   #101
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I buy mostly Pentax because it does the job I need it to do for a price I can afford. But I am not a professional.

Cameras are simply tools. If you feel you need/want different tools to get the job done to your satisfaction, then buy them. I met a pro photog once that used to put little strips of black tape over the nameplate on the camera. He didn't want his models or anyone to be influenced by brand names. The brand was no ones business other than his. He took great pictures - period.
04-24-2008, 04:04 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
PS...There were perhaps thirty people who came to the "Spring Magazine" shoot yesterday and several asked "Pentax?" Another person stated, "I would have thought Canon or Nikon! Wow, 'You are using Pentax?' I just went out and bought the Nikon D300. If I would have known you were using Pentax, I would have purchased the K20D."

I SHIT YOU NOT.....That IS the consumer mind set.
you should bring a holga with you next time.
04-24-2008, 04:44 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Another person stated, "I would have thought Canon or Nikon! Wow, 'You are using Pentax?' I just went out and bought the Nikon D300. If I would have known you were using Pentax, I would have purchased the K20D."

I SHIT YOU NOT.....That IS the consumer mind set.
Well then that individual is a complete idiot, and no that IS NOT the consumers mind set. Especially if you are talking about the serious amerature. Your tremendous ego is skewing your view.
04-24-2008, 04:45 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
PS...There were perhaps thirty people who came to the "Spring Magazine" shoot yesterday and several asked "Pentax?" Another person stated, "I would have thought Canon or Nikon! Wow, 'You are using Pentax?' I just went out and bought the Nikon D300. If I would have known you were using Pentax, I would have purchased the K20D."

I SHIT YOU NOT.....That IS the consumer mind set.

I believe there is a large percentage of the population, at least in the US, who believe without reservation all the advertisements from companies. We are also a culture of "I have to keep up with the Jones". The day of folks being individuals vs having to sport the latest labels is upon us.

Last edited by squarerigger; 04-24-2008 at 06:57 AM.
04-24-2008, 05:27 AM   #105
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Ben,

Sorry to see you parting ways with Pentax in an official capacity. We know you love the cameras and surely you'll shoot with them when appropriate. Best of luck regardless.

Now...

QuoteOriginally posted by JMS Quote
...the Pentax system simply doesn't support things like sports...
I will repeat once again (for the millionth time...)...

PENTAX CAN SHOOT SPORTS!

Just about any modern DSLR is superior to the film cameras used in the 70s when it comes to frame rates and autofocus. The only things that Pentax doesnt have for the sports shooter are high frame rates and a superior motion tracking auto-focus system. This does make things tougher but it is not insurmountable. Please note, that to get those features in a Canon or Nikon you have to spend at least twice what a K20D costs. If you are an experienced sports shooter, you can shoot sports with a Holga. The high end CaNikons just make it easier to some extent.

This shot was done with an even less capable camera than the K10D... my K110D...

...click for larger version...

Now, tell me "Pentax doesn't support things like sports"...

I'll admit that I don't have any experience shooting "unaugmented human" sports such as football or basketball, but the K110D and the K10D do just fine with bicycle, motorcycle and automotive sports/racing. Knowing your subject, preplanning and careful shooting are more important than just blasting away at 8FPS. Much more and you might as well just shoot video...

Of course, Pentax does not go after the sport shooter market, much less sponsor a sports photographer, but that doesn't mean the cameras cannot get into the arena...

Last edited by MRRiley; 04-24-2008 at 06:58 AM.
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