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04-24-2008, 11:56 AM   #121
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Time for some reality

Hmmmmm Pentax owning fashion?!?!? A niche market for Pentax with fashion ?!?!? Just think about those statements. Fashion is all about imagine and trend. Nikon and Cannon are the big names, names that carry weight in the image and identity critical world of fashion.
I think that the problem here is more with Pentax owners. Pentax owners are not simply happy to own a camera that works well for them, they feel put out if the rest of the world does not ohh and ahh over their weapon of choice. Ben & Pentax parting ways feels, for some, like a knock because the shinning star, the champion that some have built Ben up to be , is no longer involved. Forget about getting caught up in which camera is "world recognized" as the best. It is a pointless race with no winners. As the technology evolves soon all DSLR will surpass any and all requirements the user could ever have. Pentax is on the right track. They bring a great balance of incredible quality and technology with an affordable price tag. Ben is not dead, but it is time from him to move on. There are a thousand talented artists already snapping in his place (and covering more marketable areas than just a few fashion shots). No offense Ben, I wish you success with your career and have no doubt that you continue with whatever tool / brand you decide to use. Cameras are just recording tools, we do not marry them. :ugh:

04-24-2008, 12:17 PM   #122
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Wouldn't it be nice if we had a K150D at say less than $500 entry level camera and the K200D just like it is and the K20D just as it is and finally a K1D with high frame rate and better af with the K20 sensor!!! Maybe then we could all have a camera that suits us and we would not have to spend time flameing each other because of what we want in a camera--and maybe Pentax would grow to its full potential in the market. OK?
04-24-2008, 12:47 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by SLC Flyfishing Quote
I think Pentax got some sort of threat from Popular Photography and Imaging. Ben came on there and posted some of his impressions of the DA* lenses and was immediately flamed out because the non Pentax shooters (and even one Pentax shooter) thought he signed up just to "pimp Pentax" I thought it was completely out of line, that place is so clueless and blind it isn't funny. Way too many people who are told multiple times to go with Nikon or Canon because you can't go wrong with the big two or "They sell the most for a reason". If you don't shoot with a 5D or 30 or 40D or a Nikon of some sort it's almost like you're relegated to being a second class citizen.

I'm pretty sure that this has something to do with that. Ben said it was a "pop"ular magazine and spoke to "how ard"uous the whole scenario was. The online tech editor over there is named Jack Howard.

Perhaps the powers that be at Canon are bitter that he left their ranks and are threatening to take their advertising dollars elsewhere if anyone casts Pentax in too good a light. I have to say that I've never seen a company or group of it's users get so defensive as the Canon constituency everywhere I've been. Canon even sees it necessary to publish ads telling how lens based stabilization is more effective than camera based, to me that shows that they are just a little threatened by the products Pentax and others are releasing these days. We just need to get the word out and Pentax needs to be a whole bunch more aggressive with their adverts.

Losing Ben is definitely a step in the wrong direction, if I were in charge of advertising for Pentax, I'd have full spread ads in all the major magazines with his work and shots of him using the product to create his art. That's the kind of stuff that moves product in todays market. Nike doesn't sell their shoes by telling people how nice they are do they? No, they sell their shoes by putting Michael Jordan in them and making you think you can dunk wearing them.

SLC
Perhaps you might wish to speak to the president of Pentax US for his point of view regarding this matter. Perhaps he could shed some light as to the chain of events...

Ben
04-24-2008, 12:51 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by jake.astig Quote
Pentax is a small company with a small marketing budget, compared to Canon Nikon and Sony. They can't really go with a "me too plus we're cheaper" approach. Doesn't do the brand and the equipment justice. Pentax needs to stand out and be different.

Ben's strategy of rebuilding the brand as THE fashion camera is sound and would have positioned Pentax in a small but very influential niche. Fashion has not been claimed by either Canon or Nikon. It would have been a perfect opportunity for Pentax to own the niche. Owning fashion would associate Pentax as the tool to capture beauty and creativity in all its myriad incarnations.
Bravo...Exactly! Not only Fashion but "Fashionable", "Tend Setting" "Iconic" and "Pedigree".

Thanks
Ben

04-24-2008, 12:57 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by spyglass Quote
Hmmmmm Pentax owning fashion?!?!? A niche market for Pentax with fashion ?!?!? Just think about those statements. Fashion is all about imagine and trend. Nikon and Cannon are the big names, names that carry weight in the image and identity critical world of fashion.
I think that the problem here is more with Pentax owners. Pentax owners are not simply happy to own a camera that works well for them, they feel put out if the rest of the world does not ohh and ahh over their weapon of choice. Ben & Pentax parting ways feels, for some, like a knock because the shinning star, the champion that some have built Ben up to be , is no longer involved. Forget about getting caught up in which camera is "world recognized" as the best. It is a pointless race with no winners. As the technology evolves soon all DSLR will surpass any and all requirements the user could ever have. Pentax is on the right track. They bring a great balance of incredible quality and technology with an affordable price tag. Ben is not dead, but it is time from him to move on. There are a thousand talented artists already snapping in his place (and covering more marketable areas than just a few fashion shots). No offense Ben, I wish you success with your career and have no doubt that you continue with whatever tool / brand you decide to use. Cameras are just recording tools, we do not marry them. :ugh:
Hmmm...Interesting. Why is Canon backing all of the major Fashion oriented events? Trends are set by Fashion and Music. If you do not think that Fashion is important, look at all of the surviving relics that go back centuries. The frescos in Egypt, Rome and Persia for example. Many of the only remaining artifacts are etched in stone. No sir. fashion is a reflection of society. It mirrors our shell and speaks loudly of our social mores, attitudes and mind set. It is a record or time capsule that speaks loudly and is studied by scholars in a variety of disciplines.

Ben
04-24-2008, 01:07 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Perhaps you might wish to speak to the president of Pentax US for his point of view regarding this matter. Perhaps he could shed some light as to the chain of events...

Ben
Sure, but can't you just tell us? Sing as how you're no longer affiliated with Pentax and all...

SLC
04-24-2008, 05:22 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Hmmm...Interesting. Why is Canon backing all of the major Fashion oriented events? Trends are set by Fashion and Music. If you do not think that Fashion is important, look at all of the surviving relics that go back centuries. The frescos in Egypt, Rome and Persia for example. Many of the only remaining artifacts are etched in stone. No sir. fashion is a reflection of society. It mirrors our shell and speaks loudly of our social mores, attitudes and mind set. It is a record or time capsule that speaks loudly and is studied by scholars in a variety of disciplines.

Ben
I never said fashion wasn't important, I implied that fashion was not the best basket for Pentax to place the majority of their eggs. Of all the great relics that you quickly refer to...... name a single tool, brush, supplier, or manufacture that was involved with supporting the process. Pentax is a tool, it is not a fashion or art. Perhaps that is what the confusion here is all about. Pentax is a tool pure and simple. While the photograph it may capture may live on and span time, the tool will be of little importance. There are only so many consumer dollars to go around. The pyramid is wider at the bottom (higher priced item, less sales at the top / lower priced items, majority sales at the bottom. Most companies would play the law of averages and shoot for the wider market (1/3 up from the bottom). maybe you think it would be romantic if Pentax died penniless like most of your long past artists. It is not about looking good, it is about bottom lines, shareholders and market shares. It is the capitalist world that we have created.
04-24-2008, 08:35 PM   #128
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Benji: I wish you the best of fortune as a "free" freelancer! Thanks for all you've contributed and will contribute to your fellow photographers here on the PF. Bon chance!

Pentax (Fr, Jp, US, UK, CA, AU, ETC.): Mystique≠Mistake.

FWIW/IMO: Brands are for cattle. Cameras are for photographers. I don't shoot with a "brand," but with a camera. I've shot with cameras that have had various combinations of lettering on them; it just happens that the ones I've liked well enough to spend my own money on, and keep, have six letters that start with "P" and end with "X." It didn't have anything to do with the brand, but with the qualities and usability of the cameras as image-making tools. The value proposition hasn't hurt, either.

Put those together with a community of talented image-makers, Benji for instance, who will share good work and welcome others into the community, and that will be enough to attract me. For some others, a little extra mystique might just be the magic needed to open that door. Nothing wrong with mystique, and really, who'd mind a little mystique rubbing off on them? Not me, even if it isn't the reason for my being part of this community. But Pentax? Now, you'd think they'd appreciate a little rub-off. Too bad they don't see it that way, but, as Benji said, c'est la vie!

04-24-2008, 08:39 PM   #129
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QuoteOriginally posted by spyglass Quote
I never said fashion wasn't important, I implied that fashion was not the best basket for Pentax to place the majority of their eggs. Of all the great relics that you quickly refer to...... name a single tool, brush, supplier, or manufacture that was involved with supporting the process. Pentax is a tool, it is not a fashion or art. Perhaps that is what the confusion here is all about. Pentax is a tool pure and simple. While the photograph it may capture may live on and span time, the tool will be of little importance. There are only so many consumer dollars to go around. The pyramid is wider at the bottom (higher priced item, less sales at the top / lower priced items, majority sales at the bottom. Most companies would play the law of averages and shoot for the wider market (1/3 up from the bottom). maybe you think it would be romantic if Pentax died penniless like most of your long past artists. It is not about looking good, it is about bottom lines, shareholders and market shares. It is the capitalist world that we have created.
No both Canon and Nikon are where they are from working from the top down... about the only time a "trickle down theory" works
As soon as Pentax gave up on "pro" SLR's they started down a slow path to slr extinction.
They apparently have yet to learn...
As to fashion industry, sure they could pick something different as in sports of some sort (official camera of the PGA comes to mind ) but C/N have most of the majors locked in.
I think Ben is right, this is a good place to get the "foot in the door" so to speak and technically pretty cheap. No need for free or at cost "uber zooms" or tele's to take a loss on.
04-24-2008, 08:54 PM   #130
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glad you're not officially part of pentax anymore

glad you're not officially part of pentax anymore, because it makes me appreciate the fact that at one point, you were.

regardless, you're an insightful photog, professionally generous, often very funny & self deprecating - and week in/week out, you create 1st class art - somehow... and do it in a commercial environment?

no small feat.

but... it had to be a ticking timebomb... 'personality' and 'art' are both so subjective. and given the mob mentality and effect of committees (and boards), it was never going to last.

bet you learned a ton from the experiences though.

thanks for sharing.

Cheers!
04-25-2008, 10:04 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by 123K10D Quote
glad you're not officially part of pentax anymore, because it makes me appreciate the fact that at one point, you were.

regardless, you're an insightful photog, professionally generous, often very funny & self deprecating - and week in/week out, you create 1st class art - somehow... and do it in a commercial environment?

no small feat.

but... it had to be a ticking timebomb... 'personality' and 'art' are both so subjective. and given the mob mentality and effect of committees (and boards), it was never going to last.

bet you learned a ton from the experiences though.

thanks for sharing.

Cheers!
I have always had problems with large corporations.

None the less thanks for the heads up.

Ben
04-25-2008, 10:31 AM   #132
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Sorry to see you lose out on Pentax freebee's. I hope you will continue to use Pentax equipment as we all go on down the road. By the way, have you seen this?
PHASE ONE 645 CAMERA PLATFORM
A digital 645 SLR - could be interesting.

I am looking forward to hearing from you in the future. Even if you do not us Pentax any longer as your primary piece of equipment. It is interesting to read your posts and follow what you are doing.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL
04-26-2008, 03:36 AM   #133
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I really don't like the large MF format cameras'..Not mobile enough for me. I never use a tripod. I need to move around the subject. If someone comes out with a light mobile MF camera, I will rent if needed for a gig, otherwise 15 mega pixels is more than ample for most applications.

Ben
04-26-2008, 05:13 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by SLC Flyfishing Quote
Let me relate an experience that I had a few months back.

My wife and I were in best buy, my wife was looking for a DVD and I decided to go over to the camera section and check SD card prices. While I was there I saw that they had the Sony A700 on display and I decided to give it a peek. It was locked under glass so I couldn't handle it but I was looking at the camera and checking out the lenses they had in there with it.

All of the sudden, this lady (who had no affiliation with Bestbuy at all by the way) comes up behind me and informs me that I don't want to waste my time with the camera. I started to tell her that I already own a camera but she just kept going on and on about how her husband does photography for a living and he won't even touch anything but a Canon. I couldn't even get a word in edgewise.

This lady then proceeds to point out the prints that were hanging above the display and points out one particularly beautiful landscape photo, framed and with a little engraved placard attached. She says "see this photo, you can tell that this one was obviously shot with a Canon, I can tell it's a 5D. You just don't get images like that with Sony, Nikon's close but Canon is the only camera you want, trust me!"

I lean in close to the frame, read the placard, and laugh out loud. "What?" she asks me. With what was probably the biggest look of satisfaction I've ever had I read the placard to her. "Wall Lake, Uintah mountains, Utah. Captured such and such date with Sony A100 DSLR" It also had the exposure and lens info on there but that's beyond the point. The lady was speechless of course, then I called an attendant over to get the A700 out for me just to let it sink in a little, I'm a jerk, I know! but it was so funny and I couldn't help myself.

It's another case of the "myth" that surrounds the big two. They're far from having a lock on the best equipment, but the average joe on the street who has just a very basic knowledge of cameras knows Canon and Nikon and the "great photos that are only possible through their products". Pentax needs to figure out a way to get something like that associated with their products. We'll all know it is hype and marketing, but it will sell units and people won't be getting a lesser product by any means.

SLC
It's really quite funny those that feel they can look at a photo and call out camera oh, and even sometime lens used!
04-26-2008, 05:21 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by JMS Quote
I shoot track with my K100D (for the record, I never use Burst mode), and I've found that its autofocus system just isn't quite enough for things moving towards and from the camera. So, mainly I use the "trap focus" mode. My main problem, though, is that there's almost no reasonable upgrade path at present. Pentax's longest pro zoom lens only goes to 135mm. That just isn't enough.

I've found that, yes, Pentaxians get very defensive. There's no reason for that. Pentaxes do a lot of things very well, and, with the right lens, they do sports well. The problem is, the right lenses aren't in production. I have to go back AT LEAST 10 years to find a telezoom that suits my needs- no-one's getting rid of their FA* 80-200mm f2.8. And, it isn't in production. Same deal with all the other tele lenses that would be great for sports. Pentax is just starting to come back, with the new DA* lenses.

I'm not asking for 278fps. I'm just asking for a bit better AF, and the lenses to go with it.
Yes, and this is why I traded out my gear. I agree Pentax makes a wonderful camera but why work harder to achieve the same result as something you can get easier elsewhere? It increases the keepers and allows you to think about other things while shooting. I hope when I make some $ to spend, I can get a K20 and a few lenses and maintain two systems.
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