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04-23-2008, 05:17 PM   #31
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let me make this as simple as possible without being rude. or starting other discussions. Hoya is a very large and very successful optics company. they don't need pentax to do what they do, but they have seen potential in the brand name and want to capitalize on that. why would hoya go through all this trouble just to send their investment down the drain and out of the camera market? Pentax is going nowhere but forward. are they ever going to be on the level of canikon? I doubt it unless they start catering to sports/action photographers but that doesn't mean they are headed down the drain. they have survived since 1910 and with the financial backing from hoya they are in no danger of collapse. simple as that. if you think they are doomed to failure because their AF and FPS is weak you are a bit delusional. that caters only to sport/action photography. their are plenty of other types of 'pro' photography where this could not be more irrelevant. and as a person who caters to street photography and artistic B&W these are quite irrelevant to me as well. I agree that pentax needs to change/up its promotion and advertising worldwide but they are in no way on the verge of going down and out. in fact if they do anytime soon I will eat my shoe. (sperry topsiders by the way)

04-23-2008, 07:27 PM   #32
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Good to see a constructive thread from Pentaxians

This thread sure beats the depressing rhetoric that was going on in a couple of other areas. Unfortunately in this day and age bad news or bad opinions seem to have more believability than the good. A result of our sensationalist low budget tv shows and negative news mentality maybe?.

The Pentax is a great marque, they make unique and very usable cameras and will survive in my opinion as a viable option for discerning hobbyists and enthusiasts and with pro's that can utilize the strengths and work around the weaknesses.

All cameras have these strengths and weaknesses in design, function and usability, this cannot be denied. All of us die-hard enthusiasts and serious hobbyist types pick the camera we want and use it, we can make it sing, we can work around the weirdness and quirkiness of the device, and sometimes convince ourselves that are not there, but they are!

This does not stop us getting great images BTW, I have thousands of keepers from my K10D, and recommended Pentax to several who purchased K10D's and various lenses.

I still recommend Pentax for those who ask and have the right needs and for whom I feel a Pentax is a good fit, as well I would recommend a Nikon, or Canon or Sony for others, even a P & S for many.

And myself? as much as I hated to do it, I had specific requirements that the K10D did not address to my satisfaction, so opted for a D300 Nikon a few months ago. Not a big deal, it solved my personal issues and perhaps created others.. I lost the intuitive interface, the green button and the FA31 Limited, but that is life.

Think about it, no car, tv, stereo or camera is really bad, or totally perfect, we buy what we need for what we do, end of story.

Recommend what is best for the user, no other criteria is honest or fair.

Phil

Last edited by matix; 04-23-2008 at 08:21 PM.
04-23-2008, 08:24 PM   #33
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Normally, I avoid threads like this one, but those that I do read almost always goad me into examining actual data.

Five minutes with the Google search engine sent me to Business Week's international web page and the Hoya corporate web site (English version). I learned that Hoya is a good-sized outfit, with a market cap of about $12 B, which indicates to me that the company has the resources to do something with the Pentax brand if it so chooses. Also, I learned that the Pentax acquisition consummated less than a month ago, which indicates to me that Hoya's imprint (marketing, financing, manufacturing and R&D) on the Pentax brand and offerings won't show up for a while.

Perhaps those of us who have significant investments in Pentax lenses, bodies and gear should chill a bit and see what comes of all this. Although I could certainly be wrong, I'm guessing that Hoya and Samsung will make some good things happen with the K-mount. If they don't, Canon, Nikon and Sony will offer great alternatives. After all, we're in this to do photography, not to obsess over the fate of a manufacturing company.

Jer
04-24-2008, 05:30 AM   #34
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you said that batter than I could have.

04-24-2008, 07:40 AM   #35
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Excellent post, Jer.
04-24-2008, 01:35 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Buddha Jones Quote
After reading the pages of distrought diction in the 'Ben's leaving Pentax' thread I ask this to you, the Pentaxians out there, old and new, can WE save Pentax?
Save Pentax from what?

There are a lot of Pentax users (pro and amateur) out here who could care less either way about Ben leaving. We used Pentax before he came on the scene, we'll use Pentax after he's gone.

Maybe I misunderstood the purpose of this board.
04-24-2008, 02:07 PM   #37
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Wow, talk about a conversation spiralling out of control. I wasn't implying that Ben had anything to do with the longevity of the company, that would be a stupid statement/belief. What I was getting at was what can we, the Pentax users do to help broaden the Pentax spectrum. Like when we did Pentax Day, that was great! And I read about how everyone was telling their friends and family about how they should check out Pentax for their next camera, that is great stuff. I suppose my title was wrong, and perhaps my reference to the Ben thread was a bit melancholy but the 'what next' thing was where I was hoping to go.
04-24-2008, 02:30 PM   #38
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I wrote about the Hoya-Pentax merger over a year ago when it was first announced. See link below. You'll have to scroll down about 1/2 to see the post titled "Hoya comments". I still stand by it, and it's been almost 1 1/2 years since I wrote it.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/1775-busting-few-p...long-read.html

Since I wrote this piece Pentax has continued to do well. But don't take my word for it. Look at eBay and how slim (& expensive) the pickings for good K-mount gear are. That's one of the best third party indicators there is.


QuoteOriginally posted by Sailor Quote
Normally, I avoid threads like this one, but those that I do read almost always goad me into examining actual data.

Five minutes with the Google search engine sent me to Business Week's international web page and the Hoya corporate web site (English version). I learned that Hoya is a good-sized outfit, with a market cap of about $12 B, which indicates to me that the company has the resources to do something with the Pentax brand if it so chooses. Also, I learned that the Pentax acquisition consummated less than a month ago, which indicates to me that Hoya's imprint (marketing, financing, manufacturing and R&D) on the Pentax brand and offerings won't show up for a while.

Perhaps those of us who have significant investments in Pentax lenses, bodies and gear should chill a bit and see what comes of all this. Although I could certainly be wrong, I'm guessing that Hoya and Samsung will make some good things happen with the K-mount. If they don't, Canon, Nikon and Sony will offer great alternatives. After all, we're in this to do photography, not to obsess over the fate of a manufacturing company.

Jer


04-24-2008, 03:19 PM   #39
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I'd just like them to remember who got them there...and maybe give their cameras a little longer than 2 year life spans. If I buy a laptop computer it is usually good for 3-5 years as is the operating system (which gets updates throughout the life cycle).
04-24-2008, 03:32 PM   #40
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Excellent and prescient post from 12/2006

Original post read and thread subscribed for future reference. - Excellent!

QuoteOriginally posted by tranq78 Quote
I wrote about the Hoya-Pentax merger over a year ago when it was first announced. See link below. You'll have to scroll down about 1/2 to see the post titled "Hoya comments". I still stand by it, and it's been almost 1 1/2 years since I wrote it.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/1775-busting-few-p...long-read.html

Since I wrote this piece Pentax has continued to do well. But don't take my word for it. Look at eBay and how slim (& expensive) the pickings for good K-mount gear are. That's one of the best third party indicators there is.
04-24-2008, 04:56 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by tranq78 Quote
I wrote about the Hoya-Pentax merger over a year ago when it was first announced. See link below. You'll have to scroll down about 1/2 to see the post titled "Hoya comments". I still stand by it, and it's been almost 1 1/2 years since I wrote it.

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/1775-busting-few-p...long-read.html

Since I wrote this piece Pentax has continued to do well. But don't take my word for it. Look at eBay and how slim (& expensive) the pickings for good K-mount gear are. That's one of the best third party indicators there is.
welll... not to nit-pick but some of your assumptions are a bit off base.
Hoya was mainly interested in Pentax Medical. CEO even stated at a board meeting that they will consider selling Pentax Camera if it was underperforming. After the med dept hit a hard time, and camera div was finally making a return, they softened their stance but I still believe they are in a "wait and see" attitude towords the division as a whole.
Hoya also went and commented that they were not interested in competing w/ the likes of Canon and Nikon and would prefer more "niche marketing". Can you say securety/medical/specialty cameras. Hoya was never a "consumer company" short of their loss-leading novelty glass and ther name (because of the blanks) on some filters assembled and sold by Cosina (I believe) or some such company under the brand name "Hoya".
Pentax rep commented that Hoya was basically investing nothing in the camera division (preferring the sink or swim philosophy).
Pentax camera profits (even currently considering their success) is still below Hoya standards and it strictly up to "Pentax" to change that.. talk about pressure but Hoya did give them something like 3 years to "prove themselves" but I'm not going to be fooled into believeing they will stick w/ this is if the division loses money. That is NOT an option and I suspect Pentax camera will hit the auction block as soon as that occures...
To put this in perspective, this is really nothing different in the business world than any company and any division out there. I BELIEVE Pentax camera was much safer when it was poor fumbling (not my words) old Pentax w/ it's mismanagement and old school philosophies... but those times are gone.
Let's face it Hoya wants at least a 10% return on their investment for all of Pentax (there is probably a good reason Pentax camera was not rolled totally into Hoya as the rest of it was, beside the fact that Hoya had no "equivalent" place to stick it.
But not to worry, Hoya is slow and will give Pentax camera a shot and Samsung is there to build on the pieces if it does go south, so there is a future.
Sad thing about this world, even good products get canned if profits aren't at an x% level...
AND Hoya. Kenko. Tokina have nothing in common except a common distribution... they are NOT financially related...
I could go on a bit, and have at other times/places but that's not really necessary... would seem too much gloom and doom and not really my intent..
04-25-2008, 04:24 AM   #42
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If Hoya does scrap Pentax that does not mean the end of "Pentax" the name... someone else will see the value in decades of goodwill and snap it up. Maybe even Samsung.

I'm chilled and taking great pix with my Pentax not too worried about all this gloom and doom corporate stuff.
04-25-2008, 06:44 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
I convinced someone yesterday to buy the K10D over a canon xti, I couldn't be happier and im sure he will feel the same.
Mmm

You got some courage there! Usually for beginners, it is better to let them pick the "common" brands. It is hard to convince people what gear is better from one to another if there was no prior photography experiences to compare to. Often, these beginners would criticise you for the gear recommended.

I had seen people complaining about Canon EF 600mm f4L IS, 500mm f4L IS and EF 200mm f1.8L because these were the first lenses he ever owned. Why did he complain about these lenses? He purchased them to photograph his own dogs running on the beach and they were all blurred.
04-25-2008, 10:31 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Buddha Jones Quote
Save Pentax from being lost in a Canikon world.
I don't think Pentax is lost in a Canon world any more than Nikon, Fuji, Leica, Panasonic or Olympus.

The world is full of hard working photographers who use a wide range of equipment ... not just Canon shooters. While I might not have Ben's impressive portfolio, I make a living with my photography and my writing. I've used equipment from just about every company that makes (or has ever made) a camera and/or lens.

If most working photographers are honest they'll admit the same thing. People who make a living with photography don't care about the brand name printed on their tools ... they just care about having the right tools to get the job done. When I say "the right tools to get the job done" it's with the understanding that there are MANY tools that can do the same job and the choice of tools largely depends on the artist/photographer.

Most working photographers I know have used multiple systems and sometimes even use multiple systems on the same job. One guy might have been a Canon shooter who switched to Nikon but sometimes uses a Leica. Another photog might have been a Nikon shooter who now uses Canon but sometimes uses a Sony point-and-shoot for street photography.

I can show up at a job and craft a solid set of images with just about any camera and lens combination ... but I personally prefer some camera/lens combinations over others.

I've never been offered a promotional contract from a camera maker such as Ben was with Pentax, but if a company (any company) offered to pay me money in exchange for using their gear you better believe I would use their gear. If the company in question stopped paying me I'd go back to using whatever gear I want to use.

"Brand loyalty" only matters to advertising agencies and the companies who pay them ... or to people who want to think the tool is more important than the hand that wields it.

As long as Pentax continues to make good cameras and lenses (and tries to get their name in front of consumers) they won't have to worry about "being lost."

Last edited by JJJPhoto; 04-25-2008 at 10:42 AM.
04-25-2008, 12:00 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
Mmm

You got some courage there! Usually for beginners, it is better to let them pick the "common" brands. It is hard to convince people what gear is better from one to another if there was no prior photography experiences to compare to. Often, these beginners would criticise you for the gear recommended.

I had seen people complaining about Canon EF 600mm f4L IS, 500mm f4L IS and EF 200mm f1.8L because these were the first lenses he ever owned. Why did he complain about these lenses? He purchased them to photograph his own dogs running on the beach and they were all blurred.

I well informed him on lens choices as well as why/and what he wanted to photograph. and also because of his location a weather sealed body/lens combination is a very real plus and he has already seriously considered the K10D to begin with he just wasn't sure as to whether or not he wanted to pay quite that much. I assured him that the weather sealing and SR were worth the extra money given his needs. as for the lenses, well it doesn't matter what body you choose if you use the wrong lens for the job your pictures will come out bad.
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