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04-26-2014, 04:46 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
Well I can tell you one thing - the Sony Zeiss 135/1.8 is certainly good enough! It's my favorite lens that I can't own (unless I invest in a new DSLR mount).


And of course my Sigma and Tamron statement is a generalization. But Canon, Nikon, Minolta, Olympus, and Pentax would all tend to produce better lenses than a "comparable" Tamron or Sigma lens.

Actually, Canon is the only camera brand I think I'd want just premium (L) glass from - not Pentax or the others. But I still use * lenses the most.



I didn't realize Sony was working with Olympus so much on the glass, but at least they chose one of the best lens makers.

I'm not convinced Zeiss is grossly overpriced. The law of diminishing returns still applies, but if you want better glass ...
I shoot with a friends A900/A99 and his CZ 85mm and 135mm. The 135mm is an excellent lens. If Sony had continued with the A900 line (no SLT) I would be shooting Sony now. The A900 is my favorite DSLR. The OVF is perfect.

Sony "loaned/invested" money in Olympus after their financial scandal. Part of the agreement was that Olympus would develop glass for Sony since Sony pretty much sucks at making lenses. Fuji makes all the professional Sony HD video glass for TV and movies. CZ makes their premium glass for the consumer market. Sony G series lenses are way over priced for the quality.

Sony makes good sensors, and they understand HD video. They still have a lot of work to do for still image photographers. We must be a difficult group of people to understand, because Sony really doesn't understand the market. Fuji on the other hand jumped right in and started grabbing mirrorless market share. Fuji seems to really get still image photographers but they don't get HD video.

04-27-2014, 02:25 AM - 1 Like   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
This is my biggest concern too - will they be able to match the quality of the optics they've made in the past? Having Sigma and Tamron make major lenses for them (if that's what they're planning) certainly won't do it for them. At a minimum they should have Tokina and Cosina making lenses to high standards that they specify. But will that really get them up to the optical quality of the better A, F, and FA lenses of the past?
Pentax will NEVER work with Sigma directly unless Sigma starts to pay licences.
04-27-2014, 07:40 AM   #63
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Isn't the k mount an open source mount? Or at least.... some of the older generations were...
04-27-2014, 09:58 PM   #64
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K mount by itself always have been open.
KA mount though never has been. For what I understood, KA mount patents expired couple years ago, leading to the KA-mount compatible lenses from Samyang.
Samyang had to wait for F mount (eletric) to be free so they had to relaunch their lenses in AE version.
Canon manual aperture from Samyang is for the same reason.

Every other variations: KAF, KAF2, KAF3 are patented and supposed to be licensed.
AFAICT, all 3rd parties do license but Sigma (and Samyang since they don't need to until now).

04-27-2014, 10:35 PM   #65
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Isnt kaf2 over 20 yrs old by now? And it's not stopping Sigma in either case. ...
04-28-2014, 03:38 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by DSims Quote
This is my biggest concern too - will they be able to match the quality of the optics they've made in the past? Having Sigma and Tamron make major lenses for them (if that's what they're planning) certainly won't do it for them. At a minimum they should have Tokina and Cosina making lenses to high standards that they specify. But will that really get them up to the optical quality of the better A, F, and FA lenses of the past?
I think they will be fine. They have a big catalog of past designs, some of which are great and would just need tweaking with new coatings and engineering to put in auto focus. I don't really think Tokina has anything on them with regard to lens design.
04-28-2014, 04:29 AM   #67
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Some sorts of glass are out of production, or prohibited, so not all old lens designs can be replicated. There are new glasses, very good, but this needs new designs.

On the other hand, in the past, Tamron made some lenses for Pentax, only with the name plate changed. Pentax 18-250mm is one of them.
04-28-2014, 05:44 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Some sorts of glass are out of production, or prohibited, so not all old lens designs can be replicated. There are new glasses, very good, but this needs new designs.

On the other hand, in the past, Tamron made some lenses for Pentax, only with the name plate changed. Pentax 18-250mm is one of them.
I think Pentax really need to design their own lenses. This may cost a lot, but perhaps they should invest whatever it takes. If they choose not to, then two things will likely follow. First, rebadged-to-Pentax lenses are going to seem woefully overpriced (inevitably, given the long chain of mark-ups involved). Second, there simply won't be a reason to buy a Pentax system since lenses are really the reason most people buy into any system. In the past few years, the competition around lenses has grown pretty intense. The bar is now very high and the market will expose second-rate articles in an instant. Canon, Nikon, Zeiss, Olympus and Fuji are there with top-quality offerings, as are Sigma and Tamron (in some cases) and now even Leica (for the rich boys) with their new T system. Anyone's lens catalogue may hold some duds, but the impression is that there are far more very good lenses out there than was the case in, say, 2007.

This is not an arena to enter with a couple of old glass-for-hire jobs bought in from AN Other and a few 25-year-old designs with a new coating sprayed on the front. It's a familiar story, I think. If the impression coming across is that the company isn't much inclined to invest in its products, then why should any customer. Thus if, say, Pentax launch an FF system reliant on third-party lens designs, a fair guess is that it will fail. No matter how good the system may look on paper, people will never be able to shake off the feeling that the system lacks integrity and is, at heart, all rather cynical. At best the system will seem middle of the road, when the real selling point should be excellence. Better a slow path of organic growth than any attempt to make a fast buck.


Last edited by mecrox; 04-28-2014 at 05:59 AM.
04-28-2014, 07:11 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Poit Quote
I agree totally!

The Sigma 35 f1.4 is an absolute gem, and has quickly become a staple lens for me when shooting weddings. I have NEVER found myself thinking 'oh this is really heavy, I wish I could sacrifice speed and/or depth of field for a smaller lens'. Absolute tosh.

What concerns me most is not that people here believe the 'smaller/slower' marketing line, but that Pentax Ricoh themselves seem to believe it. If they are serious about mixing it with Canon & Nikon they need to realise that for many/most pro-shooters speed and/or DoF is a much more important attribute than size/weight. They are consigning themselves to a small corner of the market, and excluding many potential customers, by continuing down their current path.

I agree. I have the Sigma 35 and 85 1.4... both are outstanding performers. Size and weight doesn't bother me. I love what fast glass offers.
04-28-2014, 07:28 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I think Pentax really need to design their own lenses. This may cost a lot, but perhaps they should invest whatever it takes. If they choose not to, then two things will likely follow. First, rebadged-to-Pentax lenses are going to seem woefully overpriced (inevitably, given the long chain of mark-ups involved). Second, there simply won't be a reason to buy a Pentax system since lenses are really the reason most people buy into any system. In the past few years, the competition around lenses has grown pretty intense. The bar is now very high and the market will expose second-rate articles in an instant. Canon, Nikon, Zeiss, Olympus and Fuji are there with top-quality offerings, as are Sigma and Tamron (in some cases) and now even Leica (for the rich boys) with their new T system. Anyone's lens catalogue may hold some duds, but the impression is that there are far more very good lenses out there than was the case in, say, 2007.

This is not an arena to enter with a couple of old glass-for-hire jobs bought in from AN Other and a few 25-year-old designs with a new coating sprayed on the front. It's a familiar story, I think. If the impression coming across is that the company isn't much inclined to invest in its products, then why should any customer. Thus if, say, Pentax launch an FF system reliant on third-party lens designs, a fair guess is that it will fail. No matter how good the system may look on paper, people will never be able to shake off the feeling that the system lacks integrity and is, at heart, all rather cynical. At best the system will seem middle of the road, when the real selling point should be excellence. Better a slow path of organic growth than any attempt to make a fast buck.
I think you are right. For small gaps (eg a super zoom like the 18-270) it probably isn't a big deal to rebadge. But for any higher end lens, Pentax created lenses tend to have different priorities of Sigma and Tamron -- sacrificing a little bit of clinical sharpness for better out of focus rendering. I like the FA limiteds design priorities over similar focal length Sigma options, even if the Sigma glass is a little sharper wide open.
04-28-2014, 07:40 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Isnt kaf2 over 20 yrs old by now? And it's not stopping Sigma in either case. ...
Of course Sigma does reverse engineering

---------- Post added 28-04-14 at 15:45 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
Pentax 18-250mm is one of them.
And so is the Pentax 18-270
04-28-2014, 08:35 AM   #72
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KAF2 is out of patent protection, intro'd in 1992.
KAF3 was intro'd in 2006? So probably still under patent protection in theory.
As (to my knowledge) Pentax hasn't sued Sigma, it might be tough to sue anybody else who used KAF3. Don't know if that works the same way trademarks do or not.
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