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04-27-2014, 01:43 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
Not a speculation. RI had very conservative numbers planned (remember, they are always conservative), but it seems demand was stronger than anticipated. I think that is good.
And now with the 645Z on the horizon, the team should be congratulated indeed.
I agree.

04-27-2014, 01:43 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
Guy,
Pentax is #4 or 5 in DSLR . (...)
How so? Medium format cameras aside, there are only four DSLR manufacturers left: Canon, Nikon, Ricoh and a very marginal Sigma.

QuoteOriginally posted by bobmaxja Quote
(...)
Canon and Nikon do have about 50 models and they own about 60-70% of the market and more.
Even including Sony's SLTs, make it 85% and more.
05-03-2014, 11:15 AM   #33
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I always find it bizzare when I hear of shops not displaying Pentax but they are available for order. The two main camera shops in my city which are chains in the region, both stock Pentax quite healthily, including 645. The previous model they claimed sold quite well locally and they usually tried to keep 2-3 in stock at a time. To me that is a lot of inventory for a $10,000 camera at the time. When I picked up my K3, there were at least another dozen on hold (this was launch day). The downtown store of one of the chains carries 90% of the K mount line in stock at all times, very rare I've had to special order a lens. The only lens I've ever had to special order for K mount has been Sigma or Tamron branded.

I guess up here in Canada, or Alberta at least, Pentax is stronger than it appears to be elsewhere.
05-03-2014, 11:34 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wired Quote
I always find it bizzare when I hear of shops not displaying Pentax but they are available for order. The two main camera shops in my city which are chains in the region, both stock Pentax quite healthily, including 645. The previous model they claimed sold quite well locally and they usually tried to keep 2-3 in stock at a time. To me that is a lot of inventory for a $10,000 camera at the time. When I picked up my K3, there were at least another dozen on hold (this was launch day). The downtown store of one of the chains carries 90% of the K mount line in stock at all times, very rare I've had to special order a lens. The only lens I've ever had to special order for K mount has been Sigma or Tamron branded.

I guess up here in Canada, or Alberta at least, Pentax is stronger than it appears to be elsewhere.
Canada is the US's Pentax store :-) Seriously, when i was getting started with Pentax, i bought several lenses from Canada online stores, and had no problems with the service either - cheers!

05-04-2014, 06:20 PM   #35
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I've often wondered if the major Pentax retailers in New York have some kind of agreement to limit Pentax sales to them. That's a bit of an aluminum-foil-hat theory, I admit. I was at a major camera shop in SF, a shop I frequent, and a year or so ago was told they don't stock Pentax because it doesn't sell. "We can stock a Pentax body and it won't move for 12 to 18 months. We can sell a dozen or more similar Canon and Nikon bodies in that time." I asked if that was because Canon and Nikon gave them a larger percentage of the revenue than Pentax did and then asked if they ever suggest Pentax to customers. The guy walked away to help another customer who didn't need anything, so he went in the back. On another trip, the same guy admitted that they price Pentax gear at a premium (because we have to order it...), which they do not do for Canon and Nikon.
05-04-2014, 07:28 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by K David Quote
I've often wondered if the major Pentax retailers in New York have some kind of agreement to limit Pentax sales to them. That's a bit of an aluminum-foil-hat theory, I admit. I was at a major camera shop in SF, a shop I frequent, and a year or so ago was told they don't stock Pentax because it doesn't sell. "We can stock a Pentax body and it won't move for 12 to 18 months. We can sell a dozen or more similar Canon and Nikon bodies in that time." I asked if that was because Canon and Nikon gave them a larger percentage of the revenue than Pentax did and then asked if they ever suggest Pentax to customers. The guy walked away to help another customer who didn't need anything, so he went in the back. On another trip, the same guy admitted that they price Pentax gear at a premium (because we have to order it...), which they do not do for Canon and Nikon.
It is a combination of factors, or, a rather long list of ill-favoured factors. When it nattered most, in late 1990s and early 2000s, Pentax has slipped below people's radars because it was not present in the shops. Did not advertise. It fell into oblivion.

Now the comeback is hardly possible. One can say same for Apple, or Leica — no one was interested to stock them because they don't sell. Right?

But again, Ricoh Imaging is not Apple, nor Leica. Retail is tabula rasa for them. While Apple and Leica reversed the course and rethought strategy by opening their own shops in order for users experience the brand (try different cameras and lenses, try MF, binoculars, learn about this or that, repair cameras, etc.), Ricoh imaging has no idea what that means strategically. Instead of monkeying around with dealers who are disappearing and still favouring other brands, they could have opened an experience shop in
- New York (east US coast)
- San Francisco (west US coast)
- Tokyo
- Hong Kong
- Beijing
- Paris
- London
- New Delhi

It is so obvious only Ricoh cannot see it, it seems. But the new management in Leica can. With own shops
- there is no commission,
- everything is fresh from the production,
- faulty equipment exchanges and repair is quick,
- real life experience immersive,
- feel good vibe when talking to specialists and likeminded folks,
- can organise whatever crazy idea they have in mind, seminars, expeditions, photo safaris, etc.
- camera museum exhibited, with history thoroughly illustrated
- etc.

Last edited by Uluru; 05-04-2014 at 07:39 PM.
05-04-2014, 09:25 PM   #37
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well and it would be soo much more expensive. but worth a shot anyways. But the thing is pentax should sell Sigma and Tamron stuff there as well. This might show other producers (like Zeiss) that they are establishing themselfs again AND would just look so much more impressive will all lenses available. Not to mention that a client would see that even with pentax there is only the wallet is the limit
05-04-2014, 09:40 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mehlsack Quote
well and it would be soo much more expensive. but worth a shot anyways. But the thing is pentax should sell Sigma and Tamron stuff there as well. This might show other producers (like Zeiss) that they are establishing themselfs again AND would just look so much more impressive will all lenses available. Not to mention that a client would see that even with pentax there is only the wallet is the limit
I had an informative chat with some marketing people from Leica and that is what they told me. The only way for Leica to bring their cameras to their users and to public, try them, and see in person the true quality of craftsmanship, appreciate fully all details and get all help, was only possible if opening their own stores. No one else would do it, stock it, or do justice to their products. If Leica did not change its marketing mind and did it 5 years ago, they would not have enough $ now to launch the new system — it is that simple. They needed just a little extra which shops and marketing awareness allowed.

Pentax is not some new gimmick brand; it has a very rich history. And Pentax can have its own store here and there, that will sell more and inform more than half the national dealers put together. On the other hand, Nikon and Canon don't need specialist shops — they already own the market, and own all retail independent shops, practically speaking. They dictate terms and retailers nod.

Again, I do not know who inside the Ricoh's family is using its single marketing brain cell at this moment, but I hope someone with a bit more wit will get it soon.


Last edited by Uluru; 05-04-2014 at 09:50 PM.
05-05-2014, 12:01 AM   #39
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How many "here and there" are you talking about? Would you be happy with 4 stores in the U.S., like Leica has? Wait, you mentioned 2 stores for the entire U.S.; do you really think that those stores are an effective replacement for a retailer network?

(I'm mentioning U.S. because in Europe for example Pentax presence is not as much of a problem; and as a consequence, most complainers are from the U.S.)
05-05-2014, 02:18 AM   #40
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i dont care if they only sold 1 k3 and thats mine ,im not changing it for canon or nikon ever lol.we have chosen pentax because we like to be different.and we love the product not because pentax is the market leader,we know how awesome the k3 is and that is all that matters.well thats my rant for the year lol
05-05-2014, 02:46 AM   #41
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Well, apart from concept stores, they need products that capture buyers' imagination. They don't really have that. The limited have potential but the other marquees are there too, and Pentax never found a body to match.

Yet, I am still here, using Pentax and not looking to change that. However, it is Leica and Fuji that fuels any GBA I might have, not Pentax. And if I really wanted to be serious about photography, I would look elsewhere (Nikon) too.

My personal feeling is Ricoh's ambition is reduced to an ambition to keep it floating and perhaps wait for a miracle to happen, maybe hoping some of their competitors (Fuji, Olympus) tires of the game and pull out. At least I don't see an ambition to change things around. It might even be wise not to invest heavily right now, but I sure would love to see them gear the organization a bit. First thing, I think they need to hire some people besides engineers. I still think beginning to communicate would help a lot - as in paying a team of photographers and people that can write engaging about photography to make a learning center based on Pentax' gear. That might convince people that you can do serious stuff with Pentax kit.
05-05-2014, 05:52 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I had an informative chat with some marketing people from Leica and that is what they told me. The only way for Leica to bring their cameras to their users and to public, try them, and see in person the true quality of craftsmanship, appreciate fully all details and get all help, was only possible if opening their own stores. No one else would do it, stock it, or do justice to their products. If Leica did not change its marketing mind and did it 5 years ago, they would not have enough $ now to launch the new system it is that simple. They needed just a little extra which shops and marketing awareness allowed.

Pentax is not some new gimmick brand; it has a very rich history. And Pentax can have its own store here and there, that will sell more and inform more than half the national dealers put together. On the other hand, Nikon and Canon don't need specialist shops they already own the market, and own all retail independent shops, practically speaking. They dictate terms and retailers nod.

Again, I do not know who inside the Ricoh's family is using its single marketing brain cell at this moment, but I hope someone with a bit more wit will get it soon.
Leica has the margins to do this because M-mount has always been a high-end brand and is now a luxury brand by choice.

None of Pentax's nor Ricoh's products qualify as such. Not enough margin to open retail specialty stores save as tiny kiosks which would serve as marketing ploys only until people used Amazon.com to source it cheaper.

Leica is not a very good comparison.
05-05-2014, 06:52 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
None of Pentax's nor Ricoh's products qualify as such. Not enough margin to open retail specialty stores save as tiny kiosks which would serve as marketing ploys only until people used Amazon.com to source it cheaper.
Stores are so history, not worth the investment.
05-05-2014, 07:29 AM   #44
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Dealers operate on a profit / cubic shelf foot / year basis. There's more to it than just profit margin / unit - there's also turns / year. Turns require depth of brand, reasonable Dealer Minimums, Dealer Credit, wholesale inventory distribution, Sales Rep support, co-op advertising, marketing and events, multi-media advertising, effective returns handling - IOW, brand infrastructure.

In the USA Canon and Nikon, and to a lesser extent Sony, Olympus and Fuji have brand infrastructure. Pentax in the USA has none of the infrastructure that is necessary to attract broad dealer stocking of their products. Further, Canon and Nikon have brilliantly fragmented the market with their multiple models and price points and their complete lens lineups so that Pentax, with just Q, three dSLR models and 645 can't gather enough momentum and volume to break in. I swear I learned about market segmentation and fragmentation in 1975 in an undergraduate Marketing course - it's that simple.

Pentax at the end and then Hoya allowed the USA market to destroy itself. Ricoh might - might - eventually achieve respectable market share globally if the dealer model falls apart altogether and they are at the forefront of creatively replacing it - but I have no idea what that would look like.
05-05-2014, 07:43 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by steveUsername Quote
we have chosen pentax because we like to be different.
Nitpicking, maybe, but... I chose Pentax because it was small, light, had a great sensor, good viewfinder, and had SR in the body. The good user interface was a bonus, too.

If Canon had offered that I would probably have a Canon.
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