[NZ_Ross]

As a further discussion on this topic, and just a personal sampling - in the past 2 weeks I have been at South Beach Miami; Centre City Miami; Manhattan, New York; World Trade Memorial, New York; Empire State Building, New York; Tower of London; St Pauls Cathedral, London; Westminster Abbey, London; and today Edinburgh Castle, Scotland.

These are some of the worlds premier tourist destinations. I have been in lines (queues) for up to an hour at each location. I have yet to see another Pentax DSLR of any kind.

Nikon DSLR's (mainly the low end ones) have outnumbered Canon by roughly a ratio of 2 to 1. I have seen many as 4-5 Sony DSLR's in that time.

So, it has been interesting - I would have thought I would have seen some other Pentax DSLR's.

However - I think this probably also reflects relative sales numbers.

The crowds have predominantly been American's, Hispanic Americans (in Miami), German, Italian, Japanese, Nordic, and British from the accents and languages I have heard.

So Pentax clearly still has a lot of work to do.

[ChristianRock]

I think Ricoh thinks about things most people don't - they do have a good track record of making inroads into other people's market shares.

Here's what *I* think they're thinking...

It is true that a lot of people buy cameras and lenses online. However these are usually people that already have a system in place. For example, someone that has a Canon and upgrades it every 2-3 years, and buys a lens here and there, will feel good about buying online because they know what to expect. They expect the newer camera or lens will be an upgrade or an addition to what they already have, but it won't bring surprises.

Now someone that is *changing* systems - that is an entirely different story. They will usually want to try out the new camera and lenses first, see how they feel in their hands, see how it compares to what they're used to. And in the end, they might end up buying online anyway, but only after having tried it in a store. That is why store presence is so important.
You might say, why don't they just rent to see if they like it? Pros and semi-pros might rent, but the average soccer mom or holiday dad won't, in 99% of the cases. They might think (especially if they're frugal like Pentaxians are known to be) hey, that rent money might get me some pasticky fantasticky lens

So for Ricoh it's important to have demo equipment in stores, even if they don't sell a whole lot in the stores themselves. The days of "minimum order quantity" are probably over, in the age of internet business. And that might be the advantage Ricoh has over Canikon.

[fotobert]

I was wondering about new salesnumbers and googled for it and came up with some site.

http://dslrphoto.com/dslr/space.php?do=jranking&view=all

So only the Q10 gets in the list with 3 items starting at #48. No K-3 in it for the first 80 places!!!!!!! So reviews are just there for clicking and not buying or is this list not accurate?

I know that overhere all sales off camera's are slow compared to a year ago.

At the popularitylist off DPReview where the 5 most popular camera's are listed during 5 days the K-3 was stunning popular. Now it is the Leica T (wich not a sole is buying), but the 645z didn't even make the list for a single minute.

In germany the K-3 is rated place 33,000 in amazon's electronics and photo, but NOT in DSLR. I guess this is simply a faulty classification. The K-30 is on 30th place
Albert

[guinnessman]

I don't think Pentax's problem is lack of B&M, just poor marketing and lack of brand recognition. I just think most people have heard of Pentax or know that they're still in business.

People are just going along with what they've heard of.

A little bit further down the list (IMO), are the lack of lenses (1st and 3rd party, the used market), and I have concerns about Pentax's QC (mirror flop, I won't touch SDM with a 10 foot pole). I like Pentax's features (big VF, dual dials), but some of their prices on lenses...their rebadged Tamron 18-270 costs over twice as much as the Tamron one at Adorama for example, and it's just a consumer level zoom, and there are some Tokina lenses I wish were available for Pentax too.

[lurchlarson]

I get the sense that Pentax USA has a stupid small marketing department which limits what they can do marketing wise. Speaking as someone who works for a stupid small marketing department, I think I know what they are going through. I also think that Pentax has burned a lot of bridges in the sales channel over the years. Their lenses were probably selling with a ridicules low margin in the first place and it seems they were trying to hold dealers to a MAP pricing but the internetz (looking at you Amazon and eBay) have a tendency to make MAP enforcement difficult when your sales and marketing department is already strapped for resources.

Long short, I feel bad for the Marketing department. However, sympathetic doesn't make up for reality and that is flagging sales. Someone there needs to grab marketing by the balls and make things happen. Then again they may be hamstrung by the top floor. Who knows?

[RobG]

FWIW, the K3 is currently number seven on the Kakaku list. That's up from 13th a month ago according to an earlier post in this thread. So I'm not sure how that equates to flagging sales, at least in japan.

PS I just looked again and there's only three DSLR cameras above it in the list. The others are EVIL. I guess you could say that it's the number four DSLR today.

[IchabodCrane]

Personally, I don't consider either Target or Best Buy to be camera stores.

Why? You can even buy FF Canon and Nikon cameras in Best Buy.

[MarkJerling]

FWIW, the K3 is currently number seven on the Kakaku list. That's up from 13th a month ago according to an earlier post in this thread. So I'm not sure how that equates to flagging sales, at least in japan.

PS I just looked again and there's only three DSLR cameras above it in the list. The others are EVIL. I guess you could say that it's the number four DSLR today.

Now at number 5!

[Rondec]

The interesting thing to me is that Ricoh has really held the line on price cuts. By six months after release, the K5 was selling in the 900 dollar range (release price was 1500 dollars?). I know that dealers are throwing in free bees to sweeten the deal, but the K3 is still between 1000 and 1100 dollars from what I can tell.

[ElJamoquio]

The interesting thing to me is that Ricoh has really held the line on price cuts. By six months after release, the K5 was selling in the 900 dollar range (release price was 1500 dollars?). I know that dealers are throwing in free bees to sweeten the deal, but the K3 is still between 1000 and 1100 dollars from what I can tell.

The K-5 was introduced at ~$1600 (I had thought it was $1750, apparently I was wrong, maybe that was MSRP). Six months after release it was at ~$1400. Eight months after release it was at ~$1500.

Pentax K-5 16.3 MP Digital SLR with 3-Inch LCD (Black Body Only) | Amazon price tracker / tracking, Amazon price history charts, Amazon price watches, Amazon price drop alerts | camelcamelcamel.com

[Sgtsween]

I just bought a K-3 in The Hague 2 weeks ago. The place I got it had a K-01, and quite a few Pentax lenses along with a few K mount Sigmas.

[MarkJerling]

The interesting thing to me is that Ricoh has really held the line on price cuts. By six months after release, the K5 was selling in the 900 dollar range (release price was 1500 dollars?). I know that dealers are throwing in free bees to sweeten the deal, but the K3 is still between 1000 and 1100 dollars from what I can tell.

Very true! $496 for K-50 body and $1,196 for K-3 body in the US at Adorama. That's a big jump. Sure, the K-3 is far more advanced, but it's not like they offer anything inbetween.

[aleonx3]

Very true! $496 for K-50 body and $1,196 for K-3 body in the US at Adorama. That's a big jump. Sure, the K-3 is far more advanced, but it's not like they offer anything inbetween.

Yeah, it may be true if you compare it that way - "why such a big difference?". I would think that Ricoh wants to move the k-50 line more aggressively to compete with D5300 and 60/70D whereas the k-3 is really holding its own line (ie. sales are in-line with projection), because the competitive models are 7D and D300s; which are also not cheap either. Don't forget there is still k-5IIs which I think is a very underrated camera, and is more than capable to compete with D7000/D7100.

[MarkJerling]

Yeah, it may be true if you compare it that way - "why such a big difference?". I would think that Ricoh wants to move the k-50 line more aggressively to compete with D5300 and 60/70D whereas the k-3 is really holding its own line (ie. sales are in-line with projection), because the competitive models are 7D and D300s; which are also not cheap either. Don't forget there is still k-5IIs which I think is a very underrated camera, and is more than capable to compete with D7000/D7100.

Not much stock of the K5ii in some markets now, unfortunately. But, you're correct - the K3 holds it's own.

[Kunzite]

Very true! $496 for K-50 body and $1,196 for K-3 body in the US at Adorama. That's a big jump. Sure, the K-3 is far more advanced, but it's not like they offer anything inbetween.

This is a temporary situation.