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05-09-2014, 11:07 AM - 1 Like   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Well, fanboys, I'm still waiting...let's hear it?
Rupert, you know better, and if you don't you should. This entire thread is plowing old ground. I'm out.

05-09-2014, 11:43 AM   #47
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Bummer. I got the repair parts a couple of months ago for the lens release button on my k5 that popped off. If I won't be able to get them again, maybe I'll just put electrical tape over it so it won't pop off. Using a paper clip for several months was a real pain in the butt.
05-09-2014, 11:46 AM   #48
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Well, I have had nothing but good experiences with CRIS, Pentax USA, Pentax Canada, Pentax UK (When I lived in Europe), and Pentax Japan (when I lived there). I have had K2DMD repaired, Super Programs, SF! and SFX repaired, a 28-70 FA* repaired, and now a DA*16-50 at CRIS. Pentax backed everyone up. I am leaving on a trip soon, and needed my lens back for a trip. I FB messaged Pentax at 11pm. The next AM they got the parts and air shipped them to CRIS. CRIS turned the SDM and loose barrel repair in 24 hrs, it is on its way back to me from United Chicago (who got CRIS/Pentax involved for this repair). United, Pentax, CRIS, and probably everyone in between helped out. I simply sent a nice note, a bunch of people pitched in from JP/Denver/CRIS, United. I see the horror stories and learn a lot from them.

I analyzed the data on this forum on SDM and Mirror flop. All of the data was valuable.

On Mirror flopping, it became VERY apparent to me from ALL reports that the firmware needs a tweak on power regulation, and it is affecting mirror servos... I was talking to Pentax about this, and they asked me what I thought... I told them... Low and behold, the issue is being "repaired" on those with the issue with a firmware patch. I also believe after reading the numerous "several cameras had the same issue" reports of several single users, and hearing from my wife (who had it on one of our K-3s, which I cannot replicate....That the mirror flap can be triggered by holding the camera in a right hand and inadvertently holding down the AF or AE-L button, draining the battery a small dip. Since we watched this, her issue went away with BOTH bodies...

So... THX for all for the data and posts, the techies among us appreciate the details (we cull out the rant/ emotion/ frustrations), and a"spoonful of sugar..." well you get my point... Best Rgds to all...

Last edited by GlassJunkie; 05-09-2014 at 11:54 AM.
05-09-2014, 12:59 PM - 1 Like   #49
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I say Ricoh did the correct thing.


As an Electronics engineer i know how much can og wrong when you repair something and are not educated for it. The risk is extra high if you fiddle With the Electronics. Say change a motherboard.


In my view, a camera serviced by someone i don't know and trust, is Worth nothing at all.

05-09-2014, 01:29 PM - 2 Likes   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Rupert, you know better, and if you don't you should. This entire thread is plowing old ground. I'm out.
Monochrome, I'm not looking for trouble, but just couldn't hold my tongue when I see such honey coated posts as I sometimes see. I think what pushed me over the edge is not the "parts" situatiion, it really seems minor to me.....but a post I read (and responded to) over on the Flapping Mirror thread.
There was a poster there that was trying to spin the flapping mirror as some possible benefit to protect circuits in the K3 or some other sort of nonsense, and was spinning it as a possible "good thing". That sort of nonsense is what I am talking about, it is ridiculous. Pentax is not perfect, they make mistakes, I think all camera makers do at one time or another....more often than not really. I see no need or benefit in covering them up or pretending "an SDM lens is better used in manual focus anyhow." Things of that nature are simply more destructive than reasonable criticism.

I'm out too! I have friends, you are one, I don't want to anger anyone, just try to instill a little common sense in the discussion of defects and customer service. I'm as against ugly bashing as much as you are, whether it is Pentax, Nikon, Oly, Fuji or whatever.......but I am just as much against sugar coating when it is not justified. Based on only service and mfr communication, I wouldn't buy any Pentax product....but that would go for several other mfgs too. We don't always buy for service alone...in fact it is no where near the top of the list....until we have a problem.

I don't see a razor's edge difference between Hoya and Ricoh currently.......I hope that will change, it needs to if they want to continue in business and prosper with the Pentax brand. Some may see it differently, and if so, I am happy for them.

I'm going back to where I belong, shooting squirrels and drinking good Irish Whiskey over in the Pentax Lounge. If there are friends here I offended, my apologies, it was not the reason I posted.

Best Regards!
05-09-2014, 01:39 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Actually, HOYA dumped everyone and replaced them with contract companies. That was Ned Bunnel's 'Big Box' Distributor strategy - no real Pentax anything, just outside contractors and the internet. When they closed Golden Colorado and moved to Denver they only took 50 people.
I've actually had very little experience with CRIS after HOYA got involved. More than half of my experiences extend prior to their takeover.
I never really noticed a difference, but it is sad to think things got worse with HOYA!!!

If Ricoh is simply bringing things up to pre-HOYA standards, I would have to say it isn't doing much.

I have an honest question because I am honestly out of the loop on such things... where do you get your information about Ricoh and CRIS, etc...?
Do you work for or with either of them? I would love to think there is truly a possibility for things to get better.
05-09-2014, 02:04 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
I have an honest question because I am honestly out of the loop on such things... where do you get your information about Ricoh and CRIS, etc...?
Do you work for or with either of them? I would love to think there is truly a possibility for things to get better.
I do not work for anyone associated with the photographic industry. I am not in a position to 'know' anything, I am not an expert and I am not subject to an NDA. I read, and I research the industry for a living.

From time to time I communicate with persons who are in a position to know what is actually happening. Some of those persons may possibly currently work for or may possibly formerly have worked for a certain company or other.

If I don't think I actually 'know' something i try to preface a statement, "I think . . "

Regarding things possibly getting 'better', (depending on your definition of good versus mine) I am quite confident thigns are already getting better but we don't see the actual investments themselves. I also believe Ricoh's time horizon for changing Pentax (5-7 years from 04/2013) and our time horizon for having our problems solved (approximately yesterday) are not in agreement.

Further, the nature of the Japanese culture and management, and the nature of the American consumer, are so decidedly different that we're almost certain to be skeptical of everything Ricoh does.

I simply try to understand business reasons for decisions and explain, but that is often viewed here as apology. OK, then -

Last edited by monochrome; 05-09-2014 at 05:24 PM.
05-09-2014, 02:09 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rupert Quote
Monochrome, I'm not looking for trouble, but just couldn't hold my tongue
Well Rupert, I suppose I am on the apologist end of the spectrum but I've been critical of Pentax when I think they deserve it. First half of 2012, for instance, and I bought a K-01 pre-order!! And I like your squirrels.

I get annoyed when people bring up things like SDM. We know they're never going to own it. Their business strategy is to sell lenses at higher prices for MANY reasons - and they're just not going back to the Days of Ned.

Let's move on.

05-09-2014, 03:14 PM - 1 Like   #54
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Well, that was an interesting series of discussions.......... Hope everyone has a nice weekend and manages get out and take some pictures.

Bob
05-09-2014, 03:52 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by woodywesty Quote
Hope everyone has a nice weekend and manages get out and take some pictures.
Pictures of handsome squirrels!

Regards!
05-09-2014, 04:56 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
I've actually had very little experience with CRIS after HOYA got involved. More than half of my experiences extend prior to their takeover.
I never really noticed a difference, but it is sad to think things got worse with HOYA!!!

If Ricoh is simply bringing things up to pre-HOYA standards, I would have to say it isn't doing much.

I have an honest question because I am honestly out of the loop on such things... where do you get your information about Ricoh and CRIS, etc...?
Do you work for or with either of them? I would love to think there is truly a possibility for things to get better.
Pentax USA established the service agreement with C.R.I.S. in August, 2009, at least a year after Hoya took over (early 2008).*

It's certainly possible you had your Pentax gear serviced at C.R.I.S. before Hoya's takeover, but it wasn't done under the agreement which established C.R.I.S. as the exclusive factory authorized Pentax (USA) repair center.

That said, I suspect the root cause of often reported issues with C.R.I.S. stems from an inadequate agreement between Pentax and C.R.I.S. Out-sourcing services like factory authorized repair can work, but it requires detailed contract terms which provide sufficient incentive for C.R.I.S. to perform and leverage for Pentax to ensure quality.

Does Pentax's agreement with C.R.I.S. include elements such as these, and if so, does Pentax diligently enforce the agreement?

1) Provider will maintain a sufficient supply of commonly used spare parts as listed by Pentax to enable repairs without delays. Pentax will deliver updated lists of required parts as new products are released and common service issues arise.

2) Provider will deliver records of all service tickets on a monthly basis to include product, service required, turnaround time. Remuneration is based on meeting agreed upon quality and timeliness performance metrics.

3) Provider will solicit customer feedback for all services rendered and will provide same to Pentax on monthly basis. Pentax will advise provider of any required changes in procedures or training needed to address customer feedback issues.

If these kinds of incentives are not in Pentax's agreement with C.R.I.S., they didn't do it right (judging by what I've read on PF, Pentax certainly did not). If they didn't, the situation certainly can be improved with just a little thought on Ricoh's part and diligence in following through. Maybe Ricoh has made some changes here. If so, it will be apparent in due time.

*From the Pentax Timeline RICOH Imaging Timeline
QuoteQuote:
On March 31, 2008, PENTAX Corporation is officially renamed HOYA Corporation. In a letter to customers, tucked in every shipped product, the following message is provided: "We will continue to market a fine line of products under the familiar PENTAX brand to satisfy your demands and requirements. We thank you for your continued support and patronage to HOYA CORPORATION and our PENTAX-brand products."
And from PentaxWorld.com PENTAX IMAGING APPOINTS CRIS AS PRIMARY FACTORY SERVICE CENTER (USA)
QuoteQuote:
GOLDEN, COLORADO (August 1, 2009) PENTAX Imaging Company, an innovator in the production of digital SLR and compact cameras, lenses, flash units, binoculars, scopes, and eyepieces, announced today that Camera Repair Instrument Service (CRIS), a leading provider of camera repair and imaging device maintenance, will partner with PENTAX to provide factory repair service for the PENTAX brand cameras and sport optics consumer products. In this agreement, CRIS will act as the “factory service facility” for dealers, and consumers in the United States.
05-09-2014, 05:17 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by cfraz Quote
Pentax USA established the service agreement with C.R.I.S. in August, 2009, at least a year after Hoya took over (early 2008).*
Holy c---! Has it been that long? Man how time flies! OK, then... I'm wrong.
Most if not all of my issues started in mid-2008. I thought HOYA came in later than that.
05-09-2014, 06:13 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Yes, my comment was intentionally snarky but the question is real. I understand fully the business reasons behind Pentax's change. I have bought parts from Denver retail at Dealer price in the past. A few points that come to mind - they won't change your opinion but they are at least an explanation - and they aren't necessarily exhaustive.
  • The 'Parts Department' is literally one person
    • As you have experienced, it is hard to contact 'Parts'.
    • Servicing retail detracts from (her) ability to service dealers; (she) is actually a hard-working, dedicated employee and Pentax is lucky to have (her).
  • The Parts inventory must be carried by Pentax in retail quantities to provide retail sales
    • partial cartons broken to sell one part are not re-saleable to a Dealer
    • Credit Card handling is a chore and always subject to uncontrollable consumer refusals.
    • Shipping is a chore and the time cost is unrecoverable at any price
  • Selling to retail at Dealer Prices undercuts Dealers
    • Pentax has an outsourced 'Webstore' for retail NIS purchases, but it is a contract company, not really Pentax - they don't actually 'service' NEW products, either.
    • As linked above, Pentax apparently now has some retail parts 'Dealers' who are equipped to sustain the issues of retail parts distribution.
Pentax simply does not have the revenue in the USA to justify retail parts distribution. As a business manager one must make decisions regarding allocation of scarce resources. Given a choice I would choose not to lose money on retail parts and redirect that saving to acquiring new dealer-customers.

From my experience the "Parts" dept at (Pentax) Ricoh is a total joke! When my Q lcd glass cracked, I had to try calling 50 - 60 times before I was even able to leave a message. I left several, but no call was ever returned. I also sent several emails, and never received any reply.
I finally sent some emails out to Pentax PR folks and actually received a reply. Incredibly I then also received a reply from L**n, THE parts employee. Amazingly I then spoke with her by phone to order the lcd glass and gasket. I gave her my CC number for 2x each, totaling about $17 (to be charged upon actual shipment) and she gave me an order confirmation number. She said it would be about 3-4 weeks coming from Japan. After 5 weeks I never received anything, nor was I charged either. In a later email, she then denied ever giving me a total nor placing any order!!

I gave up! (the Q still works with the cracked glass, NP)

This is some of the worst service I've ever received from ANY company. Let's give up on the old excuses about mergers, transitions, etc .. Ricoh isn't making any significant changes other than raising prices and putting out some grossly overpriced products at the speed of continental drift! What they will do is to improve the distribution channels, something that's already apparent. Hopefully they won't in the process dilute the Pentax brand name into a me-too (a year later) Canikonoh kind of product.

P.S. If anyone knows how to get a Q lcd glass, please let me know!
05-09-2014, 07:24 PM - 1 Like   #59
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Man, your experiences are awful and I believe you guys have the right to air your complaints. I'm new to Pentax and I believe that the products are really good. In my part of the Globe, I have also received information that Pentax camera parts are kind of scarce. Basing on the answers of the authorized Pentax distributors they're as bad the our authorized repair center for Olympus.

I remembered sending my Olympus e-410 for repair last February 2012 and I was able to get it back sometime September 2012. Last January I sent my one of my lenses for repair and up to now I have not received it. I ended up buying a new kit lens and telling the dealer to please send back my lens.

I just hope that my Pentax gears won't conk out on me. Otherwise it means spending more money for buying back up gears.

Ricoh should do something about their after sales services if they want to keep their customers happy.
05-09-2014, 07:45 PM - 2 Likes   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by ABPhotography Quote
Pentax are slowly becoming Ricoh so they are clearly following the other big sheep in the camera manufacturing world. I mean Pentax can't even design a camera that Auto Focuses brand new out of the box, so why are they worried about DIY repairers. ...
Congrats. Your first post, and well deserving of an award.

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