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06-24-2014, 05:35 PM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
Exactly. That's what Pentax wants us to believe.
Are they wrong?

06-24-2014, 06:34 PM   #92
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Pentax have always marketed their MF line-up as alternative to high-end 35mm (D)SLR's. Even the 67. Field cameras; not studio tools as the competition.
Now they are barking up the wrong tree in my opinion with new lenses very few can afford or lift.
I think I might drop the 645 system (I have four lenses and the 645NII) and concentrate on the K-3 and the Q system...
06-24-2014, 07:43 PM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Are they wrong?
They aren't wrong. That's Pentax's strategy.
06-25-2014, 06:54 PM - 1 Like   #94
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I am not sure why all the spleen over the new 645 products.

New lenses are heavy because they are WR and some are even OIS. They are far more complicated than lenses of 25 year ago. Say macro lens, gosh, that must be incredible optically to suit these new sensors.

Since digital cameras depend on sensors, and because there will never be large format sensors and even the future of many MF crop sensors is in question, Pentax does what they can to say to those who do not know:

• Try our 645 as an alternative for 35mm, because it has many virtues you don't know. Or, expand you vision and think outside of what Canon and Nikon and spoon-feeding you. Grow up.
• Try our 645 as an alternative for LF and much more expensive MF, because we bring best quality to price ratio. The camera is more versatile than before. Or, help us to help you sustain the format that is truly worth preserving.

06-28-2014, 01:02 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I

New lenses are heavy because they are WR and some are even OIS. They are far more complicated than lenses of 25 year ago. Say macro lens, gosh, that must be incredible optically to suit these new sensors..
WR weights virtually nothing. Optical stabilizing is OK, but main market is probably still the landscape photographers who doesn't need it. I have no problems with the fact that Pentax does offer these features but I cannot imagine many landscape shooters wanting to carry lenses weighting in excess of 1kg each + a camera at 1,5. Not to mention what it costs.
The 75/2.8 weigths 215g! The 120 Macro is a splendid lens; i'm sure it is good enough for the 645z. Increasing the quality of the glass shouldn't make it heavier. If Pentax can keep a lens line-up that is liftable they will surely increase their market....
06-28-2014, 01:38 PM   #96
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A lot of the time 'increasing the quality of the glass' means adding more elements.
06-29-2014, 01:23 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
Pentax have always marketed their MF line-up as alternative to high-end 35mm (D)SLR's. Even the 67. Field cameras; not studio tools as the competition.
Now they are barking up the wrong tree in my opinion with new lenses very few can afford or lift.
I think I might drop the 645 system (I have four lenses and the 645NII) and concentrate on the K-3 and the Q system...
+1 with Uluru, please speak on appropriate knowledge or that will deserve you...

I had the opportunity to see 2 Canon "pro" users trying 645Z : they aknowledged Z's IQ is at clear steps before 1Dx or 5DIII.
Canon stays (far) ahead regarding video quality, where 645Z has visible rolling-shutter...

645 new lenses are not that expensive nor heavy compared to MF competition, actually they are cheaper compared to Hassy or Leica, and weathersealed - a unique feature amongst MF lens parcs ; as well as the stabillisation of HD DFA 90mm.

Last edited by Zygonyx; 06-29-2014 at 01:54 AM.
06-29-2014, 01:51 AM   #98
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Some people (very few) can afford to pay 20k+ for a 645 and some lenses. Other can't afford more than 10k, so they want an FF. Others can't afford more than 5k or even much less. Pentax marketing strategy can't fill costumers pockets, and this is something that Pentax seems incapable to understand. Or, at least, their 645z marketing shows that.

06-29-2014, 01:57 AM   #99
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645Z's marketing shows that 645D body only was 2K Euros more expensive at launch... about 4 years ago.
HD DFA 90mm's marketing show that 2 years after lauch, this lens's price has dropped about 15%.
What do you expect then ?

imho, the current pricing classification leaves quite some room for a nice digital 24x36 serie...

Last edited by Zygonyx; 06-29-2014 at 03:48 AM.
06-29-2014, 12:34 PM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
+1 with Uluru, please speak on appropriate knowledge or that will deserve you...

I had the opportunity to see 2 Canon "pro" users trying 645Z : they aknowledged Z's IQ is at clear steps before 1Dx or 5DIII.
Canon stays (far) ahead regarding video quality, where 645Z has visible rolling-shutter...

645 new lenses are not that expensive nor heavy compared to MF competition, actually they are cheaper compared to Hassy or Leica, and weathersealed - a unique feature amongst MF lens parcs ; as well as the stabillisation of HD DFA 90mm.

The issue is how it fits with Pentax previous MF philosophy. Pentax have always been cheaper than Leica and Hasselblad. $5000 each lens is certainly a lot of money particularly for lenses that do nothing that cannot be done cheaply in other formats. Previously, Pentax have made emphasis and compact cameras and lenses; where else can you find a 500g wide angle zoom for MF?
The new lenses seem extraordinarily large and heavy. I can't imagine many landscape photographers wanting to carry several 1kg lenses into the field together with a 1,5kg body. And we are not even talking telephotos! If this is indicative of the future MF system, FF will still be the prefered format for landscape photography and the Pentax MF system will take the role of studio camera.....
06-29-2014, 01:18 PM   #101
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Well, that could be a kinda specialisation btw formats.

The new lenses don't seem to me that large or heavy, if you consider the materials they are made of.
I understand they can support full 645 format (all, but the DA 25/4), and i don't see in this respect big differences with Leica S system lenses - made for smaller sensors but with sometimes f/2.5 aperture.

Of course for someone carrying from time to time 67 800mm and other FA*600mm teles, weight has to be a relative issue
06-29-2014, 02:58 PM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Well, that could be a kinda specialisation btw formats.

The new lenses don't seem to me that large or heavy, if you consider the materials they are made of.
I understand they can support full 645 format (all, but the DA 25/4), and i don't see in this respect big differences with Leica S system lenses - made for smaller sensors but with sometimes f/2.5 aperture.

Of course for someone carrying from time to time 67 800mm and other FA*600mm teles, weight has to be a relative issue

In isolation it isn't much but some may want to use a wide angle, a standard zoom, a macro lens and perhaps a telephoto + the body of course. Suddenly we are at the weight of a 600/4!

Mind you, I love to have a 645z. I already own four lenses for it. Thats why I'm keen to know how the 33-55 performs on 645z (I've provided the only review on this lens so far, but I've obly used it on film https://www.pentaxforums.com/lensreviews/SMC-Pentax-FA-645-33-55mm-F4.5-Zoom-Lens.html ).
I'm not interested in the new 28-45; I'm pretty sure its way too heavy.....

Last edited by Pål Jensen; 06-29-2014 at 03:05 PM.
06-29-2014, 04:20 PM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by OregonJim Quote
How about...Loyal...Lasting...Legendary...Limited Edition...Longevity...Logical...Less Expensive...Lighter Weight...
"L" for LX digital back? Alas, not vaguely possible technologically. Besides, I've long since retired my LX with all its attending gizmos (winder, prisms with different finders, dedicated flash cords, screens, etc.). FULL FRAME?? maybe an "LXD" body? Something akin to Nikon's retro-body? But Ricoh thinks of Pentax as specializing in "small form" cameras. How about a mirrorless APS SLR with shorter lens mount-to-sensor distance, a new bayonet (or better yet maybe a Fuji X or Sony E bayonet) plus a coupler that allows full function with all K-mount lenses. Then lenses from any manufacturer, even Leica "M" lenses, could be mounted with appropriate couplers, albeit with limited functions. Eye level tilting EVF and a tilting/swiveling screen, 36mp sensor.........No, I doubt that Ricoh will remember the anniversary as well as we do.

At best, Ricoh will mark the anniversary with a "Limited Edition" K3 body that has a "50 Years" tag glued on somewhere.
06-30-2014, 03:54 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
In isolation it isn't much but some may want to use a wide angle, a standard zoom, a macro lens and perhaps a telephoto + the body of course. Suddenly we are at the weight of a 600/4!

Mind you, I love to have a 645z. I already own four lenses for it. Thats why I'm keen to know how the 33-55 performs on 645z (I've provided the only review on this lens so far, but I've obly used it on film SMC pentax-FA 645 33-55mm F4.5 AL Reviews - 645 Zoom Lenses - Pentax Lens Reviews & Lens Database ).
I'm not interested in the new 28-45; I'm pretty sure its way too heavy.....
Me too for 645Z, but i will have to wait.
I haven't tried the FA 33-55 having already 25/35/45-85.Thanks for the link.
Another one that intriguish me is the FA55-110mm.
I wonder what this 28-45 will give, and weight : let's wait a bit
06-30-2014, 01:28 PM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by WPRESTO Quote
"L" for LX digital back? Alas, not vaguely possible technologically. Besides, I've long since retired my LX with all its attending gizmos (winder, prisms with different finders, dedicated flash cords, screens, etc.). FULL FRAME?? maybe an "LXD" body? Something akin to Nikon's retro-body? But Ricoh thinks of Pentax as specializing in "small form" cameras. How about a mirrorless APS SLR with shorter lens mount-to-sensor distance, a new bayonet (or better yet maybe a Fuji X or Sony E bayonet) plus a coupler that allows full function with all K-mount lenses. Then lenses from any manufacturer, even Leica "M" lenses, could be mounted with appropriate couplers, albeit with limited functions. Eye level tilting EVF and a tilting/swiveling screen, 36mp sensor.........No, I doubt that Ricoh will remember the anniversary as well as we do.

At best, Ricoh will mark the anniversary with a "Limited Edition" K3 body that has a "50 Years" tag glued on somewhere.
If Pentax/Rico reuse an existing mount (they didnt developped), they're dead as a camera manufacturer.
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