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05-15-2014, 03:05 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
But if you don't wanna take risks, i would advise WG-4...
Even then, Zygonyx, I would be prepared financially to lose a couple of these per decade. It's what I figure doing snorkelling.

Manufacturers seals are at their best the day the camera comes out of its box, and it's downhill from there. Any aspirational IPX rating can go to pieces in months.

The plastic/rubber gets progressively brittle from heat/UV, becomes less elastic and abrades their edges as you open and close the USB, battery and SD card compartments.

Nothing DIY can be done about these moving parts - it's not like we can go nuts with silicone putty like a bathroom renovation. :-)

And that's even on 'good copies'!

The Pentax advice someone posted elsewhere was that you should take it annually to a dealer to check the seals - and who ever bothers to pay to get that done?

05-15-2014, 05:19 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
..

The Pentax advice someone posted elsewhere was that you should take it annually to a dealer to check the seals - and who ever bothers to pay to get that done?
No one does it, because that takes extra thought effort.
It is much easier to loudly moan about poor Pentax QC and flood the internet with endless threads and posts about it.

But, it is normal for those many to drive cars to a recommended service check every six months.

But on the other hand, I never saw or heard about anyone buying an underwater housing to protect the camera in adverse climate situations, including torrential rain, shooting on the ocean beach, or in excessive dusty atmosphere. And that would be the first logical step to do. Here is the underwater housing for the K7/K5/K5II.


Last edited by Uluru; 05-15-2014 at 05:25 PM.
05-15-2014, 05:29 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
No one does it, because that takes extra thought effort.
It is much easier to loudly moan about poor Pentax QC and flood the internet with endless threads and posts about it.

But, it is normal for those many to drive cars to a recommended service check every six months.

But on the other hand, I never saw or heard about anyone buying an underwater housing to protect the camera in adverse climate situations, including torrential rain, shooting on the ocean beach, or in excessive dusty atmosphere. And that would be the first logical step to do. Here is the underwater housing for the K7/K5/K5II.


I'm not sure car-camera is a fitting analogy. A malfunctioning car could potentially kill you; never heard of people dying because of broken weather seals on their Pentax.

Online complaints are valuable indicators. Moreover, they counter-balance the exultations of fanboys.

Last edited by DominicVII; 05-15-2014 at 05:38 PM.
05-15-2014, 05:59 PM   #34
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I've finished reading through many threads and posts here in PF concerning 'weather resistance' in various environmental conditions. If I may summarize, these are the main themes:

- The Ricoh-Pentax promotional statements and descriptions are generally consistent, but not specific. The exception is the reference by Ricoh Imaging Germany to the International (Ingress) Protection rating of IPX2. Weather resistance, weather proofing, fully weather sealed, and "[shutting] out water drops" are all used to describe this feature. The Product Guide mentioned in the OP seems to be slightly more assertive of the weather performance than the Ricoh Imaging web sites in Canada or the USA. Interestingly, my K-5 ii Operating Manual warns the user to "avoid contact with garbage, mud, sand, dust, water..." (Now I'm really confused). It also suggests to "wipe the camera to dry off any rain or water drops."

- There are many anecdotal user reports of cameras enduring severe weather, but also numerous reports of failures. I can't draw any conclusions because the reports are generally not specific enough to understand the conditions.

- The warranty question. Members point out that Ricoh's warranty is clear - no warranty of failure caused by water or several other factors. Personally, I think this limitation is reasonable - it would be difficult or impossible for a user or the company to determine or prove the failure mode or the specific conditions that caused water ingress.

- Perceptions and impressions. There is a definite perception within the photography community (Pentax and others) that Pentax cameras are rugged and 'weatherproof'. Whether this impression is conditioned by Pentax advertising or promotion, or anecdotes, is hard to say. I think maybe a bit of both. Personally, I experienced this a couple of days ago at work: I asked one of my associates about his Canon 'lens mug,' obvious that he's a photographer. He asked what gear I use. "Ahh, Pentax," he said, "very rugged for outdoors..." That was his only sentiment about Pentax.

- Risk. There are numerous suggestions to not risk camera failure - cover and protect your gear, and consider the seals as a second line of defence.

- Deterioration of the seals. Although Ricoh-Pentax does not appear to warn owners of possible seal degradation, several members suggest regular inspections and cleaning the accessible seals. I have not found any technical account of actual or possible deterioration mechanisms. It makes general sense, however, to think that seals may degrade under certain conditions.

- After all of this, I'm at a loss to suggest 'rules of thumb' or guidelines for ensuring reliable use in harsh environments - other than don't wash your camera in the shower more than 50 times and don't take it swimming (just kidding).

- Craig


Last edited by c.a.m; 05-15-2014 at 06:07 PM. Reason: What else - typo.
05-16-2014, 01:35 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by DominicVII Quote
There are pleny of data testifying to the durability of other brands as well. Fanboys come in all colours.
QuoteOriginally posted by DominicVII Quote
While we are walking down the path of comedians: "olympus weather seals still fine" yields 501000 hits and "Pentax weather seals still fine" 424000. Guess Olympus must be better?

I am not in any way saying that other brands do not have the ability to produce an adequately weather-sealed camera, I was simply providing evidence to support the ideology surrounding the Pentax brand, and their reputation for extensive and superior build quality. I would hardly qualify as a fanboy, if that is what you are insinuating, when I do not currently own any Pentax gear, but do own Canon gear. I would have as much faith in my [ex] K5 in harsh conditions as I would with my [ex] 1D-X, and moreso than my current 5D Mark III or ex [7D].

Also, who uses 'still fine' as a search reference quote? I was not referring to my results as factual evidence but rather a simple example of user submitted response and online discussion surrounding the topic. Sorry if it was misinformative.
05-16-2014, 02:13 AM   #36
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Don't worry, it's not your fault. It's a fashion around here to call people "fanboys" (or worse) at the slightest sign of being even remotely happy with a Pentax product.
05-16-2014, 04:43 AM   #37
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It's one thing to be happy about your product and say you are which is fine.
It is another to down play known issues and try to spin those or call them user error.
05-16-2014, 05:29 AM   #38
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Thanks clackers, Uluru and c.a.m. for your inputs
I hope we soon get the IKELITE box for K-3

05-16-2014, 06:26 AM   #39
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The product appears to be discontinued.
http://ikelite.com/housings/pentax/6830.05-pentax-k5-k7.html

QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
It's one thing to be happy about your product and say you are which is fine.
It is another to down play known issues and try to spin those or call them user error.
Are you aware you're tilting at windmills?

Last edited by Kunzite; 05-16-2014 at 06:34 AM.
05-16-2014, 06:46 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote

Are you aware you're tilting at windmills?
If I am tilting at widmills, why did you feel compelled to post, or is it hitting too close to home?

Do you want me to post countless examples of people rationalizing the SDM failure (it's only a very small problem...it only happens with older models, it's now fixed...use the lens regularly, it's your fault for letting the lens sit), the mirror flopping issue (the probability of it happening at a crucial time is small, so it's not that bad...we can't really call it a problem until Ricoh says its a problem...), bounce flash over exposure (i only shoot natural light, so it's not really a big deal).
THese are actual rationalizations offered by posters. Therefore your claim of tilting at widmills is not valid.
05-16-2014, 07:57 AM   #41
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But which of those happened now, on this thread? Who claimed that Pentax cameras are perfect ("made by the hand of god"), who denied they sometimes fail, where are those "fanboys"?

And you're seeing things from a single, inflexible point of view. Don't we have some "reliability poll" here, showing a clear discrepancy between the first 2 SDM lenses and the others? Isn't the "don't let your lens sit too much" just an advice to make a potential failure less likely to happen - while admitting the product is imperfect?
It appears to me that every attempt of qualifying an issue is seen as a "d*mn fanboy, he's defending those incompetents at Pentax again!".
05-16-2014, 08:18 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by beachgardener Quote
the downloadable version is not helpful for those on Linux distros.
Works fine if you have Wine loaded. Viewing it on my Ubuntu 14.04 box now.

Jack
05-16-2014, 08:19 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But which of those happened now, on this thread? Who claimed that Pentax cameras are perfect ("made by the hand of god"), who denied they sometimes fail, where are those "fanboys"?

And you're seeing things from a single, inflexible point of view. Don't we have some "reliability poll" here, showing a clear discrepancy between the first 2 SDM lenses and the others? Isn't the "don't let your lens sit too much" just an advice to make a potential failure less likely to happen - while admitting the product is imperfect?
It appears to me that every attempt of qualifying an issue is seen as a "d*mn fanboy, he's defending those incompetents at Pentax again!".
Yes, I was right, hit too close to home.

The Pentax system has the same quality shortcomings of any other camera manufacturer. No worse, but probably no better either.
Defending a certain brand just because it is what you bought, in spite of obvious shortcomings, and burying your head in the sand like an ostrich is fanboy behavior.
The "don't let you lens sit too long" was more of a "typical user error" comment than a helpful piece of advice. And quite honestly, if you need to give that advice, there is something wrong with the product.

You are the one that mentioned the "fanboys". And then, by your comment saying I was tilting at windmills, implied that no such fanboy behavior existed, when obviously they do.
05-16-2014, 08:33 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But which of those happened now, on this thread? Who claimed that Pentax cameras are perfect ("made by the hand of god"), who denied they sometimes fail, where are those "fanboys"?
And where are those Pentax-baiters who claimed that all Pentax products are good for nothing? The polarisation here is of your own making.

---------- Post added 05-16-14 at 17:35 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Bolt Quote
I am not in any way saying that other brands do not have the ability to produce an adequately weather-sealed camera, I was simply providing evidence to support the ideology surrounding the Pentax brand, and their reputation for extensive and superior build quality. I would hardly qualify as a fanboy, if that is what you are insinuating, when I do not currently own any Pentax gear, but do own Canon gear. I would have as much faith in my [ex] K5 in harsh conditions as I would with my [ex] 1D-X, and moreso than my current 5D Mark III or ex [7D].

Also, who uses 'still fine' as a search reference quote? I was not referring to my results as factual evidence but rather a simple example of user submitted response and online discussion surrounding the topic. Sorry if it was misinformative.
Well, one of the definitions of "Ideology" is "false consciousness", so I guess I will have to agree with you.

---------- Post added 05-16-14 at 17:48 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by cali92rs Quote
Yes, I was right, hit too close to home.

Defending a certain brand just because it is what you bought, in spite of obvious shortcomings, and burying your head in the sand like an ostrich is fanboy behavior.
Indeed. An anthropological term for it would be "fetishism." Inanimate objectes are viewed as being invested with magical properties. And those who speak ill of these objects must be punished.
05-16-2014, 09:10 AM   #45
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Thanks to all who have provided interesting and objective comments and suggestions related to the weather resistance and reliability of Pentax gear under harsh environmental conditions. I was particularly glad to learn of the IPX2 rating.

However, I'm sort of missing the connection of the last several posts to the theme of the thread. For example, during my research I might have missed a link between SDM and water ingress. I guess both issues relate to system reliability, but the weather sealing feature presents a unique aspect - it's difficult to characterize the conditions under which water might enter the camera (other than the obvious of an open port or using a non-WR lens).

Ricoh-Pentax has been promoting the use of their cameras in challenging environments but they don't give enough information on which to determine the risk of using the gear under various conditions.

- Craig
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