Pentax a No Show at Big Show

TedW · 05-19-2014, 10:41 AM

I'm new to the DSLR world buying my first DSLR (Pentax K-50) last February. However I'm not new to photography. I owned a Minolta SR201 in the late 70's. It was a great quality camera that lasted me for many, many years.

Back then the big players were, surprise, surprise, Nikon and Canon. Nikon was known as the top of the line. Pentax, Minolta and Olympus were the secondary players.

Nikon road their reputation among pros but Canon, in an effort to join Nikon at the top. went on a huge advertising blitz staring, in my recollection, a celebrity endorsements from Andre Aggasi.

I'll always remember a trusted local photo store owner in the early 1980's, who sold a lot of Canon, tell me "the reason the Canons cost more is because you are paying for the camera and all this advertising you see in the store, on billboards and on tv. These other cameras are just as good, some are better, for less cost.

As a market professional that is my take on what I see today. I used some Canon DSLR's the last couple of years and was set to purchase something like the Tsi3 or 5 until I did my research and found that for less money I could get a K-50 that was weather sealed, had built in OS, two roller wheels so I can adjust both aperture and shutter while composing and just felt really good in my hand. I couldn't be happier with the decision.

That is the benefit of not blowing huge amounts of capital on marketing. It provides the opportunity for Pentax to give you more for less money.

On the other side I suspect that their strategy may be to make a bigger margin on aftermarket sales of lens', flashes, etc.

Lack of prolific advertising doesn't mean that they are on their last gasping breath. It just mean they have a different strategy.

normhead · 05-19-2014, 10:53 AM

The Henry's Exposure show in the biggest city in Canada..
Exposure - Photo & Video Imaging Expo 2014

Check them out, Booth 164
http://www.exposureshow.com/Exhibitors/FloorMap

And Ricoh will be there. Last year they let me play with the DA 560mm and updated all my firmware on 4 cameras. Two years ago, I spent some time with a 645D. Maybe you just need to make a trip to Toronto, the centre of the known universe.

Uluru · 05-19-2014, 02:39 PM

Ricoh Imaging is exhibitor on two major shows, and those are Fotokina in Cologne and CP+ in their home ground in Japan.
Local shows are many, and organising of all that by local distributors and subsidiaries may be difficult.

**Fontan** · 05-19-2014, 06:07 PM - **1 Like**

Wait, I thought Pentax went out of business long ago...

**crewl1** · 05-19-2014, 07:07 PM

Some good free classes at the Big (small) Photo Show, decent discounts from local vendors (10% with no tax)

The lack of Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Manfrotto, Gitzo, Yongnuo, RRS, Leica, Tokina, blah etc didn't really matter.

It wasn't a huge industry show, mainly an annual retail opportunity for local vendors.

Most attendees got in free with on line registration.

**RGlasel** · 05-19-2014, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by TedW

I'll always remember a trusted local photo store owner in the early 1980's, who sold a lot of Canon, tell me "the reason the Canons cost more is because you are paying for the camera and all this advertising you see in the store, on billboards and on tv. These other cameras are just as good, some are better, for less cost.

In the 24 years that I've been a sales rep for one large manufacturer or another, I've heard lots of retailers and wholesalers tell this canard; in fact, I might have used it myself once or twice. If you are big enough to have millions invested in a product line, your pricing strategy isn't determined by the amount of advertising you buy. Sometimes there is an inverse relationship, because the customer perceives that advertising is used to convey more value than there really is, and the customer subconsciously discounts heavily advertised goods. One example is BMW which spends less than average on advertising, to support the perception of exclusivity.

A trade show targeted at consumers is an excuse for a sales event, where multiple vendors pool their resources to create publicity. Very few camera manufacturers sell directly to consumers, and Pentax has a very small presence with camera retailers in the U.S. It shouldn't be surprising that Pentax is not visible at this show.

Jaje67 · 05-20-2014, 02:31 AM

Here in the UK (Scotland in particular) there are very few 'chain' camera shops. We really only have electronic sections in department stores. Until Ricoh bought them I had only seen a Pentax DSLR twice in a shop/store. The first time was when I got my K200D (you shold have seens they guys face when I turned down his suggestion of a D80 instead) and then when the K7 came out and even then it was ony in one shop.
Pentax cameras were always reviewed in magazines after the Canon and Nikon equivelants. Now they are in every major camera shop & department store. Amateur Photographer (a popular bi-weekely publication) had a huge pull out advertising section in the run up to Christmas all for Pentax DSLR's and lenses. There editor has been roped into help promote the brand too.
I have never been so confident that this brand will continue and excel as I am just now. The wiriting is on the wall, are you having a laugh?!

Cambo · 05-20-2014, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by MPrince

Pentax is doomed!

That's NOT how you say Pentax is doomed! I've told you this till I'm BLUE IN THE FACE!!! You have to say it AGAIN, the second time with capital letters and an exclamation point, and separate the two instances by three dots. Come on, man, get it right, FFS!

The proper syntax is...

'Pentax is doomed...DOOMED!'

Ok, got it? We've got some standards around here, traditions to maintain; get with the program!

Cheers,
Cameron

**crewl1** · 05-20-2014, 09:24 AM - **1 Like**

Pentax is doomed...DOOMED!® is a registered trademark of PentaxForums.com

calsan · 05-20-2014, 07:28 PM

The boxer in the ring can't throw in the towel, someone else (such as their trainer) has to throw it in for them... That is, it's an outsider's decision that the boxer can't continue to fight, it's not a decision made by the boxer. I think Ricoh is boxing on!

Uluru · 05-20-2014, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by calsan

The boxer in the ring can't throw in the towel, someone else (such as their trainer) has to throw it in for them... That is, it's an outsider's decision that the boxer can't continue to fight, it's not a decision made by the boxer. I think Ricoh is boxing on!

They are in the corner; currently receiving some punches. Barely striking, just avoiding and cushioning serious blows.

Sgtsween · 05-21-2014, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by mprince

pentax is doomed!

doomed!!!!

(lmfao)

---------- Post added 05-21-14 at 12:13 PM ----------

Originally posted by Jaje67

Here in the UK (Scotland in particular) there are very few 'chain' camera shops. We really only have electronic sections in department stores. Until Ricoh bought them I had only seen a Pentax DSLR twice in a shop/store. The first time was when I got my K200D (you shold have seens they guys face when I turned down his suggestion of a D80 instead) and then when the K7 came out and even then it was ony in one shop.
Pentax cameras were always reviewed in magazines after the Canon and Nikon equivelants. Now they are in every major camera shop & department store. Amateur Photographer (a popular bi-weekely publication) had a huge pull out advertising section in the run up to Christmas all for Pentax DSLR's and lenses. There editor has been roped into help promote the brand too.
I have never been so confident that this brand will continue and excel as I am just now. The wiriting is on the wall, are you having a laugh?!

You Tube

**monochrome** · 05-21-2014, 12:53 PM

PentaxIsDoomed!™ is a Trademark of ME. See? Right there below my name!!

- monochrome

TedW · 05-21-2014, 02:26 PM

You are correct in that bigger market share is going to mean larger advertising budgets but it is also true that price can also be driven by a larger percent of budget by advertising if that is successful in driving up the perceived value or coolness factor. Since I'm familiar with the shoe industry I'll use Nike for an example. They spend a larger percent, compared to their cost of goods, then some of the other brands, they also have created a brand that allows them to sell at a higher margin to cover this cost. In the case of camera for Pentax to offer all these added features for a comparable price means. Over advertising if done correctly can also increase the perceived value and as a result allow you to create a higher margin; Applel would be the poster boy for this.

1) Pentax must be more efficient in production than Nikon and Canon and as a result have a lower cost of good sold. Not likely because because larger sales (i.e. Canon) most often results in lower production costs. OR

2) Pentax must have similar production costs but less advertising & sales cost per unit and that is passed on to the consumer.

I would suggest it is the later in this case. If Pentax gears up to expand their distribution channel in hopes that the cost of that will increase market share then their prices my creep up for some period of time.

In any case your comment about the trade shows is spot on. There is no need to have a big presence there is you don't have any customers at the show.

Originally posted by RGlasel

In the 24 years that I've been a sales rep for one large manufacturer or another, I've heard lots of retailers and wholesalers tell this canard; in fact, I might have used it myself once or twice. If you are big enough to have millions invested in a product line, your pricing strategy isn't determined by the amount of advertising you buy. Sometimes there is an inverse relationship, because the customer perceives that advertising is used to convey more value than there really is, and the customer subconsciously discounts heavily advertised goods. One example is BMW which spends less than average on advertising, to support the perception of exclusivity.

A trade show targeted at consumers is an excuse for a sales event, where multiple vendors pool their resources to create publicity. Very few camera manufacturers sell directly to consumers, and Pentax has a very small presence with camera retailers in the U.S. It shouldn't be surprising that Pentax is not visible at this show.

**jac** · 05-21-2014, 04:05 PM

I can't for the life of me understand how I ended up with a K5, then K5II and a K3. None of the local newspapers or TV stations advertised them and Ricoh/Pentax didn't show up for the Big Trade Show. Oops. We don't have newspapers, TV stations or trade shows. (We do have local radio but it's mostly Evangelism in Inuktitut). Guess the Hocir must have implanted a CBA device in my neck while I was getting my hip replaced in Ottawa.
Or, why does all this matter? Ricoh/Pentax makes darned fine cameras and I could personally care less where they place their advertising dollars. Gee, they probably spend them where they, as a Corporation, feel they will get the biggest bang for buck. What the heck is all this debate about anyway?

05-19-2014, 10:41 AM	#16
TedW Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 241	This reminds me of 1980's I'm new to the DSLR world buying my first DSLR (Pentax K-50) last February. However I'm not new to photography. I owned a Minolta SR201 in the late 70's. It was a great quality camera that lasted me for many, many years. Back then the big players were, surprise, surprise, Nikon and Canon. Nikon was known as the top of the line. Pentax, Minolta and Olympus were the secondary players. Nikon road their reputation among pros but Canon, in an effort to join Nikon at the top. went on a huge advertising blitz staring, in my recollection, a celebrity endorsements from Andre Aggasi. I'll always remember a trusted local photo store owner in the early 1980's, who sold a lot of Canon, tell me "the reason the Canons cost more is because you are paying for the camera and all this advertising you see in the store, on billboards and on tv. These other cameras are just as good, some are better, for less cost. As a market professional that is my take on what I see today. I used some Canon DSLR's the last couple of years and was set to purchase something like the Tsi3 or 5 until I did my research and found that for less money I could get a K-50 that was weather sealed, had built in OS, two roller wheels so I can adjust both aperture and shutter while composing and just felt really good in my hand. I couldn't be happier with the decision. That is the benefit of not blowing huge amounts of capital on marketing. It provides the opportunity for Pentax to give you more for less money. On the other side I suspect that their strategy may be to make a bigger margin on aftermarket sales of lens', flashes, etc. Lack of prolific advertising doesn't mean that they are on their last gasping breath. It just mean they have a different strategy.

05-19-2014, 10:53 AM	#17
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	The Henry's Exposure show in the biggest city in Canada.. Exposure - Photo & Video Imaging Expo 2014 Check them out, Booth 164 http://www.exposureshow.com/Exhibitors/FloorMap And Ricoh will be there. Last year they let me play with the DA 560mm and updated all my firmware on 4 cameras. Two years ago, I spent some time with a 645D. Maybe you just need to make a trip to Toronto, the centre of the known universe. Last edited by normhead; 05-19-2014 at 02:55 PM.

05-20-2014, 08:21 AM	#23
Cambo Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,016	No no no!!! Originally posted by MPrince Pentax is doomed! That's NOT how you say Pentax is doomed! I've told you this till I'm BLUE IN THE FACE!!! You have to say it AGAIN, the second time with capital letters and an exclamation point, and separate the two instances by three dots. Come on, man, get it right, FFS! The proper syntax is... 'Pentax is doomed...DOOMED!' Ok, got it? We've got some standards around here, traditions to maintain; get with the program! Cheers, Cameron

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05-19-2014, 02:39 PM	#18
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Ricoh Imaging is exhibitor on two major shows, and those are Fotokina in Cologne and CP+ in their home ground in Japan. Local shows are many, and organising of all that by local distributors and subsidiaries may be difficult.

05-19-2014, 06:07 PM - 1 Like	#19
Fontan Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: 5th floor Posts: 1,610	Wait, I thought Pentax went out of business long ago...

05-19-2014, 07:07 PM	#20
crewl1 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,807	Some good free classes at the Big (small) Photo Show, decent discounts from local vendors (10% with no tax) The lack of Pentax, Canon, Nikon, Manfrotto, Gitzo, Yongnuo, RRS, Leica, Tokina, blah etc didn't really matter. It wasn't a huge industry show, mainly an annual retail opportunity for local vendors. Most attendees got in free with on line registration.

05-19-2014, 07:31 PM	#21
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,227	Originally posted by TedW I'll always remember a trusted local photo store owner in the early 1980's, who sold a lot of Canon, tell me "the reason the Canons cost more is because you are paying for the camera and all this advertising you see in the store, on billboards and on tv. These other cameras are just as good, some are better, for less cost. In the 24 years that I've been a sales rep for one large manufacturer or another, I've heard lots of retailers and wholesalers tell this canard; in fact, I might have used it myself once or twice. If you are big enough to have millions invested in a product line, your pricing strategy isn't determined by the amount of advertising you buy. Sometimes there is an inverse relationship, because the customer perceives that advertising is used to convey more value than there really is, and the customer subconsciously discounts heavily advertised goods. One example is BMW which spends less than average on advertising, to support the perception of exclusivity. A trade show targeted at consumers is an excuse for a sales event, where multiple vendors pool their resources to create publicity. Very few camera manufacturers sell directly to consumers, and Pentax has a very small presence with camera retailers in the U.S. It shouldn't be surprising that Pentax is not visible at this show.

05-20-2014, 02:31 AM	#22
Jaje67 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Aberdeenshire Photos: Albums Posts: 33	Here in the UK (Scotland in particular) there are very few 'chain' camera shops. We really only have electronic sections in department stores. Until Ricoh bought them I had only seen a Pentax DSLR twice in a shop/store. The first time was when I got my K200D (you shold have seens they guys face when I turned down his suggestion of a D80 instead) and then when the K7 came out and even then it was ony in one shop. Pentax cameras were always reviewed in magazines after the Canon and Nikon equivelants. Now they are in every major camera shop & department store. Amateur Photographer (a popular bi-weekely publication) had a huge pull out advertising section in the run up to Christmas all for Pentax DSLR's and lenses. There editor has been roped into help promote the brand too. I have never been so confident that this brand will continue and excel as I am just now. The wiriting is on the wall, are you having a laugh?!

05-20-2014, 09:24 AM - 1 Like	#24
crewl1 Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Los Angeles, CA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,807	Pentax is doomed...DOOMED!® is a registered trademark of PentaxForums.com

05-20-2014, 07:28 PM	#25
calsan Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,548	The boxer in the ring can't throw in the towel, someone else (such as their trainer) has to throw it in for them... That is, it's an outsider's decision that the boxer can't continue to fight, it's not a decision made by the boxer. I think Ricoh is boxing on!

05-20-2014, 07:43 PM	#26
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by calsan The boxer in the ring can't throw in the towel, someone else (such as their trainer) has to throw it in for them... That is, it's an outsider's decision that the boxer can't continue to fight, it's not a decision made by the boxer. I think Ricoh is boxing on! They are in the corner; currently receiving some punches. Barely striking, just avoiding and cushioning serious blows.

05-21-2014, 12:53 PM	#28
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	PentaxIsDoomed!™ is a Trademark of ME. See? Right there below my name!! - monochrome

05-21-2014, 02:26 PM	#29
TedW Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 241	You are correct in that bigger market share is going to mean larger advertising budgets but it is also true that price can also be driven by a larger percent of budget by advertising if that is successful in driving up the perceived value or coolness factor. Since I'm familiar with the shoe industry I'll use Nike for an example. They spend a larger percent, compared to their cost of goods, then some of the other brands, they also have created a brand that allows them to sell at a higher margin to cover this cost. In the case of camera for Pentax to offer all these added features for a comparable price means. Over advertising if done correctly can also increase the perceived value and as a result allow you to create a higher margin; Applel would be the poster boy for this. 1) Pentax must be more efficient in production than Nikon and Canon and as a result have a lower cost of good sold. Not likely because because larger sales (i.e. Canon) most often results in lower production costs. OR 2) Pentax must have similar production costs but less advertising & sales cost per unit and that is passed on to the consumer. I would suggest it is the later in this case. If Pentax gears up to expand their distribution channel in hopes that the cost of that will increase market share then their prices my creep up for some period of time. In any case your comment about the trade shows is spot on. There is no need to have a big presence there is you don't have any customers at the show. Originally posted by RGlasel In the 24 years that I've been a sales rep for one large manufacturer or another, I've heard lots of retailers and wholesalers tell this canard; in fact, I might have used it myself once or twice. If you are big enough to have millions invested in a product line, your pricing strategy isn't determined by the amount of advertising you buy. Sometimes there is an inverse relationship, because the customer perceives that advertising is used to convey more value than there really is, and the customer subconsciously discounts heavily advertised goods. One example is BMW which spends less than average on advertising, to support the perception of exclusivity. A trade show targeted at consumers is an excuse for a sales event, where multiple vendors pool their resources to create publicity. Very few camera manufacturers sell directly to consumers, and Pentax has a very small presence with camera retailers in the U.S. It shouldn't be surprising that Pentax is not visible at this show.

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05-21-2014, 04:05 PM	#30
jac Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Clyde River, Nunavut, Canada Posts: 2,364	I can't for the life of me understand how I ended up with a K5, then K5II and a K3. None of the local newspapers or TV stations advertised them and Ricoh/Pentax didn't show up for the Big Trade Show. Oops. We don't have newspapers, TV stations or trade shows. (We do have local radio but it's mostly Evangelism in Inuktitut). Guess the Hocir must have implanted a CBA device in my neck while I was getting my hip replaced in Ottawa. Or, why does all this matter? Ricoh/Pentax makes darned fine cameras and I could personally care less where they place their advertising dollars. Gee, they probably spend them where they, as a Corporation, feel they will get the biggest bang for buck. What the heck is all this debate about anyway?