[frogger]

I wonder if they are going to have any representation whatsoever at this weekend's Henrys show in Toronto http://www.henrys.com/mass_emails/images/080419/TorontoShow_May08_eticket.pdf

Pentax was at the show today (its at the international centre). Very small booth though even compared to Olympus.

[*isteve]

Well obviously you are a Hoya flag waiver. Good for you...
Personally out of all the companies out there, Hoya didn't come to mind for me. Might have well be bought by Siemens or any mostly OEM supply company.
Sorry my comments "bother" you but it is just my opinion.
Funny how we read what we want to. Guess were both guilty as charged...

The result of Fiscal year 2007 fell below our expectations, largely
due to the price drop of digital camera..................
For more reading, and other's opinions:
Pentax camera division 24 pct. smaller in one year: News Discussion Forum: Digital Photography Review

Trying to provide counterpoint to your incessant downbeat and ill informed nonsense does not make me a flag waver.

Hoyas OPTICS division is not part of Pentax, and it supplies glass blanks for the camera industry as a whole. Downward pressure on prices because of lower prices of digicams has reduced margins for these products and the Optics business took a hit.

I have no doubt Pentax IMAGING SYSTEMS took a hit too, but that was NOT what was alluded to in the article. Pentax digicams themselves have been wound down and mostly outsourced to cheap external providers.

[k100d]

Pentax was at the show today (its at the international centre). Very small booth though even compared to Olympus.

how was the show today? i wanted to go but can't make it

[falconeye]

Trying to provide counterpoint to your incessant downbeat

We probably don't have to argue at all here. The figures are all on the web because Hoya is a public company and the Pentax figures have been public as well (obviously removed on March 31). Still, you find some figures here:

http://www.hoya.co.jp/data/current/newsobj-489-pdf.pdf

Unfortunately, the Hoya figures list Pentax just as one aggregated segment whereas the Pentax figures used to be fairly detailed. Esp. interesting was the breakdown into regions. I regret not to have saved those documents

Anyway, no need to speculate here. Please, stop it.

[MrApollinax]

The result of Fiscal year 2007 fell below our expectations, largely
due to the price drop of digital camera..................

Have you read the actual quote from the quarterly financial report? It seems to me that you are mis-quoting the report. Here is the complete quote:

"Imaging System Business
In the single-lens reflex digital camera field, the "K10D" middle-class digital single-lens reflex camera that was put on sale in November 2006 contributed to the sales as it has been highly valued both at home and abroad and it received Japan and European camera prizes. In the period under review, we started selling the "K100D Super" new standard-class digital single-lens reflex camera, and "K20D" and "K200D". We also introduced several types of new interchangeable lenses on the market, and actively promoted the sales of such new products.

In the field of compact digital cameras, on the contrary, decline of sales volume and unit selling price resulted in the decrease of net sales.

As a result, the net sales of this business as a whole increased slightly year-on-year basis."

The quote can be found on the financial report:
http://www.hoya.co.jp/data/current/briefingsubobj-277-pdffile.pdf

Page 7. Details on actual numbers are further down in the 33 page report. They are however expressed in Yen.

The five subsidiaries of Pentax have been consolidated into a single Pentax business unit under Hoya Corp. All Five divisions of Pentax posted a net loss last year. However in terms of SLR business the company did well and made up market share year to year. The price drops in compact P&S digicams is what caused the overall lackluster performance of Pentax Imaging. Had past price trends kept up they could have made more profit out of the P&S business. However you can see that there were dramatic price drops in that market between Canon, Nikon etc. a few months back.

Looking purely at a business standpoint it would cost Hoya more to shutdown Pentax Imaging in the long run. If anything I can see them taking Pentax Imaging and either letting them spinoff as an independent company or sell them to another company like Samsung who has invested interest in their camera bodies and lens mounts.

[*isteve]

We probably don't have to argue at all here. The figures are all on the web because Hoya is a public company and the Pentax figures have been public as well (obviously removed on March 31). Still, you find some figures here:

http://www.hoya.co.jp/data/current/newsobj-489-pdf.pdf

Unfortunately, the Hoya figures list Pentax just as one aggregated segment whereas the Pentax figures used to be fairly detailed. Esp. interesting was the breakdown into regions. I regret not to have saved those documents

Anyway, no need to speculate here. Please, stop it.

Its not speculation. Why do you have a problem with this? Hoyas Optics division has nothing to do with the Pentax division and Pentax was not blamed for Hoyas figures. If you want to believe otherwise thats up to you.

[jeffkrol]

Have you read the actual quote from the quarterly financial report? It seems to me that you are mis-quoting the report. Here is the complete quote:

Well I didn't misquote anything. If the newswire did that's a different story...
Hoya Announces Fourth Quarter and FY2007 Financial Results
And if you bothered to go to the dpreview discussion I posted you would see that I was not the only one surprised by Mr. Suzuki's comment.........


TOKYO, Japan, April 28 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- HOYA Corporation today
announced fourth quarter net sales of 135.8 billion yen for the period
ended March 31, 2008, a 36.5% increase over the same quarter of the prior
year. Operating income for the quarter was 18.0 billion yen, a 26.8%
decrease compared with 24.6 billion yen in the prior year period. Net
income for the fourth quarter was 16.3 billion yen and earnings per share
were 37.71 yen. For the same quarter of the previous year, net income was
19.0 billion yen and earnings per share were 44.11 yen.

For the fiscal year ended March 31, 2008, the company announced net
sales of 481.6 billion yen, an 23.5% increase over the prior year.
Operating income for the fiscal year was 95.0 billion yen, or 11.3%
decrease over the prior year period. Net income for the fiscal year was
77.0 billion yen and earnings per share were 178.18 yen. For the previous
fiscal year, net income and earnings per share were 83.3 billion yen and
193.50 yen.

"The result of Fiscal year 2007 fell below our expectations, largely
due to the price drop of digital camera that affected our optics business,"
said Hiroshi Suzuki, chief executive officer of HOYA. "The beginning of the
new fiscal year looks better than the same period last year. We are
planning a proactive capital investment in FY2008 in order to meet the
market demand. "

Business Highlights for the Fourth Quarter

Revenue growth for the quarter was driven by merger with Pentax,
however, the operating income decreased by 26.8%. Electro-Optics revenue
decreased by 6.4% largely due to seasonal decline of demand and negative
effect on foreign exchange rate. Vision Care revenue decreased by 6.5% due
to the tough competition with low-price lenses. Healthcare sector delivered
10.0% revenue growth for the quarter resulting from successful consulting
sales effort and expanding sales of value-added products.

Starting this quarter, the sales of three Pentax business units are
consolidated. Life Care net sales increased year-on-year basis driven by
strong sales of new endoscopic system. Imaging System net sales decreased
year-on-year basis due to the sales decline of compact type digital camera.
Optical Component net sales increased year-on-year basis resulting from
steady performance of value-added digital camera module.

Business Highlights for the Full Year

Electro-optics net sales were 209.8 billion yen, an 4.3% decrease over
the prior year. Vision Care net sales were 126.3 billion yen, 5.5% up over
the prior year. Health Care net sales were 46.1 billion yen, 13.0% up over
the prior year. The net sales of 89.0 billion yen from newly consolidated
Pentax businesses and its subsidiaries for the six months from October 1,
2007 to March 31, 2008 have been combined to the full year results.

HOYA also announced year-end dividends forecast of 35 yen per share of
common stock. The annual dividend, including the interim dividends of 30
yen per share, will amount to 65 yen per share. It will be decided at the
board of directors meeting in the end of May.

For the full quarterly report please access "Hoya Quarterly" in
Investor Relations page of HOYA website at: HOYA CORPORATION

*Results are preliminary and unaudited.

*The yen amounts shown therein are rounded down to the nearest 100
million.

About Hoya Corporation:

Hoya Corporation (TSE: 7741) is a global technology company based in
Tokyo, Japan, and the leading supplier of innovative and indispensable
high-tech products and services based upon its advanced optics
technologies. Hoya is active in four fields of business: Electro-Optics
makes mask blanks and photomasks for the fabrication of semiconductor
devices and liquid crystal panels, optical lenses for use in digital
cameras, and glass memory disks for hard disk drives. The Eye Care business
provides eyeglasses and operates retail shops for contact lenses, as well
as makes intraocular lenses for cataract surgery. The Life Care Business
provides endoscopic system. The Imaging System produces SLR/compact digital
cameras and interchangeable lenses. The Optical Component business produces
digital camera lens modules and micro lenses. Hoya now has 111 subsidiaries
and affiliates, and employs approximately 35,000 people worldwide. For more
information, please visit HOYA CORPORATION

[MrApollinax]

Well I didn't misquote anything. If the newswire did that's a different story...
Hoya Announces Fourth Quarter and FY2007 Financial Results
And if you bothered to go to the dpreview discussion I posted you would see that I was not the only one surprised by Mr. Suzuki's comment.........

I didn't read the thread. Though if the quote was presented as you did here highlighted in blue then I wouldn't be surprised if more people would have thought the sky was falling. Here is what you posted in response to *isteve:

The result of Fiscal year 2007 fell below our expectations, largely
due to the price drop of digital camera..................

Reading the entire newswire piece I see that is part of one sentence. Why not bring up this part of the same piece:

Imaging System net sales decreased year-on-year basis due to the sales
decline of compact type digital camera. Optical Component net sales increased
year-on-year basis resulting from steady performance of value-added digital camera module.

Business Highlights for the Full Year

Electro-optics net sales were 209.8 billion yen, an 4.3% decrease over
the prior year. Vision Care net sales were 126.3 billion yen, 5.5% up over
the prior year. Health Care net sales were 46.1 billion yen, 13.0% up over
the prior year. The net sales of 89.0 billion yen from newly consolidated
Pentax businesses and its subsidiaries for the six months from October 1,
2007 to March 31, 2008 have been combined to the full year results.

I guess I'm confused how you figured Hoya was blaming Pentax for their lower than expected earnings year-to-year. They obviously see the value add of the Pentax division and have pointed out in both their financial reports and the same newswire piece you have been quoting. The two LARGEST divisions in terms of total assets in Hoya are the Electro-Optics (nothing to do with camera filters) and now Pentax. Decrease in net sales from 219 billion to 209 billion will show up. Hoya has recognized that the Electro-Optics division underperformed. The way I see it Hoya sees the value add of Pentax when coupled with their other businesses. Moving Pentax from an outdated, costly business model to a more streamlined one that can perform globally will only help Pentax cut costs and get operating costs below their net sales.

To me at least it seems you are highlighting the worst part of the story to make it seem like Pentax is going to get tossed aside by Hoya.

[OniFactor]

O/T addendum:
Seems Hoya is more than happy to blame the poor fiscal performance square on the shoulders of the lowely camera division, which
considering all the other factors involved in their failure (and the relatively small camera div compaired to the "whole)", is a bit funny, but also quite sad:
Hoya Announces Fourth Quarter and FY2007 Financial Results
"The result of Fiscal year 2007 fell below our expectations, largely
due to the price drop of digital camera that affected our optics business,"
said Hiroshi Suzuki, chief executive officer of HOYA. "The beginning of the
new fiscal year looks better than the same period last year. We are
planning a proactive capital investment in FY2008 in order to meet the
market demand. "

never once in that quote do they specify the Pentax brand being the cause? they talk about optics, which, as has been pointed out, they sell optics to MANY manufacturers of digital cameras.

[falconeye]

I made it easier to read the source I had linked to (cf. attachment).

As you can see, Pentax was profitable in all past 3 years, with a nice boost in 2007. 2008 not yet published. Consolidated Pentax includes all regions. But Corporate Pentax (sum of all Pentax organizations) is larger because the figures above only include inter-company turnover of Pentax Japan with the rest of the world.

What you can also see:

Hoya has only 2x the turnover, but 20x the net earnings (despite having 4x the number of employees) ...

[Peter Zack]

Having 4-5 year old gear in the warehouse just prove how badly managed the Canadian operation really was.

I've said this before but the rep for Eastern Canada had never used an SLR until he was hired a year ago.

[jeffkrol]

never once in that quote do they specify the Pentax brand being the cause? they talk about optics, which, as has been pointed out, they sell optics to MANY manufacturers of digital cameras.

OK, the light is on and I see what your all thinking, finally.
What cameras are they talking about is the question.
Gleaning through Electro-optics you get:
In optical lenses, the markets of digital still cameras and video cameras have expanded globally and the
demand for our aspherical lenses or polished lenses has made a healthy increase accordingly during the
first half. Though there was a rapid production adjustment over the market in the latter half, in addition,
because of decrease in the shipment of lenses for mobile telephones, the net sales increased on a yearon-
Hmmm..... not those cameras...
And it's not Photonics nor Eyecare, Healthcare or Novelty glass.
That leaves the Pentax "group"
Well it's not Lifecare obviously.
As to "Optical components"
Optical Component Business
In the digital camera module field, we developed and started selling new products of low-profile highfunctionality
types, which efficiently employ the characteristics of sliding lens systems, as well as of
popular types, and we also made efforts to find new customers and significantly increased sales.
In the microlens field, falling market prices and withdrawal of HD DVD forced us to reduce the total net
sales.
As a result, the net sales of this business as a whole increased year-on-year basis.
Nope not there either... gee what's left??????

[cpopham]

Having 4-5 year old gear in the warehouse just prove how badly managed the Canadian operation really was.

People are really missing the importance of this. In today's world of modern just in time distribution this just doesn't cut it. Ever wondered why it takes Pentax a long time to roll new products out worldwide - probably because piles of stock were sitting in warehouses it never moved out of.

As a (successful) supplier of parts for many manufacturers, Hoya should be at least decent at managing supply/distribution channels - this seems to be something Pentax could do well to learn, and it seems to be happening!

As an added bonus, streamlining of wordwide distribution may help stock availability in some of the smaller markets.... one can only hope...

[spyglass]

New Brooms Sweep Clean.

I think everyone is jumping the gun assuming that Pentax Canada is toast. Hoya only bought Pentax a short while ago and like any new owner will make changes to match their style of operation. It is not unusal for the top dead weight to be cut out to lighten the ship, as well as those in sales and advertising. I feel sorry for the original posters friend getting let go, but like the old saying goes "New Brooms Sweep Clean". I am confident that Hoya will stream line Pentax in Canada and bring it in step with the modern venues of selling. In my area I have noticed several nice new Billboards sporting the Pentax line (both K20 & Point & Shoot). I talked to the manager of Londondrugs camera department and he said that he feels a positive vibration as a result of the Hoya purchase. He says product will be made availible to them faster and more efficiently.

(lets face it most of the Canuckleheads that will be let go are probably sucking back the suds and slacking off watching the Playoffs - "go team go, go team go"....... hey what the #$!*%!! you mean I'm fired.

(just kidding, ha ha)

[Peter Zack]

People are really missing the importance of this. In today's world of modern just in time distribution this just doesn't cut it. Ever wondered why it takes Pentax a long time to roll new products out worldwide - probably because piles of stock were sitting in warehouses it never moved out of.

As a (successful) supplier of parts for many manufacturers, Hoya should be at least decent at managing supply/distribution channels - this seems to be something Pentax could do well to learn, and it seems to be happening!

As an added bonus, streamlining of wordwide distribution may help stock availability in some of the smaller markets.... one can only hope...

Oh I get it. Having been (and to this day) a Sales rep in both the Electronics and furniture industry for about 14 years and a consumer electronics buyer for a large retailer before that. Inventory control is key to success with todays tight margins and overhead. If there is gear more than a few months old in the warehouse, then no one has a clue how to manage the company.

New Brooms Sweep Clean.

I think everyone is jumping the gun assuming that Pentax Canada is toast. Hoya only bought Pentax a short while ago and like any new owner will make changes to match their style of operation. It is not unusal for the top dead weight to be cut out to lighten the ship, as well as those in sales and advertising. I feel sorry for the original posters friend getting let go, but like the old saying goes "New Brooms Sweep Clean". I am confident that Hoya will stream line Pentax in Canada and bring it in step with the modern venues of selling. In my area I have noticed several nice new Billboards sporting the Pentax line (both K20 & Point & Shoot). I talked to the manager of Londondrugs camera department and he said that he feels a positive vibration as a result of the Hoya purchase. He says product will be made availible to them faster and more efficiently.

(lets face it most of the Canuckleheads that will be let go are probably sucking back the suds and slacking off watching the Playoffs - "go team go, go team go"....... hey what the #$!*%!! you mean I'm fired.

(just kidding, ha ha)

Pentax Canada has to be a very small operation. Closing the offices would not be a big deal. I worked for Samsung for several years as a rep and one day everyone in inside and outside sales/support got a phone call. Now this was a $200 million dollar operation in Canada. CYA, we're closing the doors and doing it all from the USA and Korea via the internet. Service will be handled by the American branch. They now have an office with 2-3 people that simply coordinates the Canadian operations. Look at AU. They are about 22 million (we have 31 million) and they have no branch office.

Samsung did it with a company that is most likely 15-20 times (or more) the size of Pentax Canada. So there is no reason it can't be done with any company. We are small potatoes on the world stage. Other large companies have followed this example. This may all be rumours and in no way gives any picture of the health of the company world wide but it wouldn't surprise me. Don't forget that they are partners with Samsung and that is getting tighter with the CMOS chip. Samsung could teach them a lot about streamlining inefficient branch offices.