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07-08-2014, 10:17 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
...

Especially with a DA40 Limited or DA40XS mounted. But you have to get people to Hold a K-01 before they figure it out and the 'Mister Limpet' negative horn blast against the K-01 was just too strong for it to have any chance at eventual acceptance.

If the industry is doomed it will be because the current traditional users are benighted and stubbornly clinging to their (whatevers).
It's old ground but I've held a K-01. As the initial review mentioned, it's "marginally (my emphasis) smaller and lighter than a K-r". Opposite other mirrorless APS-C and similar cameras, it's bigger which goes against the whole point of mirrorless being a smaller alternative to DSLRs. The biggest selling feature of the K-01, IMHO, is compatibility with a whole boatload of existing K-mount lenses. However, that's really only of meaning to existing Pentax users which left the K-01 trapped with a very small market opportunity.

07-08-2014, 12:51 PM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
The biggest selling feature of the K-01, IMHO, is compatibility with a whole boatload of existing K-mount lenses. However, that's really only of meaning to existing Pentax users which left the K-01 trapped with a very small market opportunity.
Well, it also allowed new users access to a full line of new and used lenses (without adapters). And allowed Ricoh to do so with no other development on the lens side. And to have a full line of lenses available without additional inventory costs as a new mount would have caused. It also allowed for a less expensive back up camera for Pentax users (after the price dropped anyway).
The K-01 concept has a lot going for IMHO, it just was not executed very well. Styling is more 'cute' than professional (IMO) and the ergonomics are not what they should / could have been. And of course the initial price tag was stunning.

I do think there is room for a smaller, better styled k-01 that would fill the mirrorless niche for k-mount. All assuming Ricoh could pack the required internals and registration length into a camera that would still fit the ergonomic and style criteria.
07-08-2014, 01:19 PM - 1 Like   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
It's old ground but I've held a K-01. As the initial review mentioned, it's "marginally (my emphasis) smaller and lighter than a K-r". Opposite other mirrorless APS-C and similar cameras, it's bigger which goes against the whole point of mirrorless being a smaller alternative to DSLRs. The biggest selling feature of the K-01, IMHO, is compatibility with a whole boatload of existing K-mount lenses. However, that's really only of meaning to existing Pentax users which left the K-01 trapped with a very small market opportunity.
How big is the Fuji XT-1? I think there are more and more mirrorless cameras that aren't going for the "smallest camera" badge. Big feature for any camera should be ergonomics. If you can't use it for an hour or two (with a lens on it) without your hands getting tired, then I think the design is a fail. The K-01 could use some improvement in its ergonomics, but it certainly is usable without a lot of hand fatigue -- even with decent sized lenses.
07-08-2014, 01:54 PM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Well, it also allowed new users access to a full line of new and used lenses (without adapters). And allowed Ricoh to do so with no other development on the lens side. And to have a full line of lenses available without additional inventory costs as a new mount would have caused. It also allowed for a less expensive back up camera for Pentax users (after the price dropped anyway).
The K-01 concept has a lot going for IMHO, it just was not executed very well. Styling is more 'cute' than professional (IMO) and the ergonomics are not what they should / could have been. And of course the initial price tag was stunning.

I do think there is room for a smaller, better styled k-01 that would fill the mirrorless niche for k-mount. All assuming Ricoh could pack the required internals and registration length into a camera that would still fit the ergonomic and style criteria.
I think you summarized quite well why it flopped. About the lens lineup... if it was such a compelling factor in a new buyer's decision then I suppose there would be more of us Pentax owners around regardless of the K-01.

---------- Post added 07-08-14 at 04:57 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
How big is the Fuji XT-1? I think there are more and more mirrorless cameras that aren't going for the "smallest camera" badge. Big feature for any camera should be ergonomics. If you can't use it for an hour or two (with a lens on it) without your hands getting tired, then I think the design is a fail. The K-01 could use some improvement in its ergonomics, but it certainly is usable without a lot of hand fatigue -- even with decent sized lenses.
I can use my Pentax DSLR all day without hand fatigue so buying a K-01 or something of its ilk doesn't solve a problem along those lines (for me).

07-08-2014, 02:00 PM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I think you summarized quite well why it flopped. About the lens lineup... if it was such a compelling factor in a new buyer's decision then I suppose there would be more of us Pentax owners around regardless of the K-01.

---------- Post added 07-08-14 at 04:57 PM ----------


I can use my Pentax DSLR all day without hand fatigue so buying a K-01 or something of its ilk doesn't solve a problem along those lines (for me).
The thing the K-01 was intended to solve was portability. There is no doubt that a K-01 with a DA limited lens fits more easily into a pack than a K30 or K3 with the same lens.

Anyway, it is what it is. Pretty polarizing. Fixable, but probably no one at Ricoh has a particular desire to fix it.
07-08-2014, 03:32 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
which goes against the whole point of mirrorless being a smaller alternative to DSLRs
Yes - old ground - but i've never accepted that point. If that's the point a GR is the ultimate mirrorless.

But it isn't a discussion any more. I have my K-01 and I use it and I like it, I'm content to be different. I didn't really care for the implied criticism when the entire review industry seemed to question my immediate appreciation of the camera - but then if I didn't come here I'd likely not have known anyone else cared. (Laughs at self).
07-08-2014, 07:29 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Yes - old ground - but i've never accepted that point. If that's the point a GR is the ultimate mirrorless.

But it isn't a discussion any more. I have my K-01 and I use it and I like it, I'm content to be different. I didn't really care for the implied criticism when the entire review industry seemed to question my immediate appreciation of the camera - but then if I didn't come here I'd likely not have known anyone else cared. (Laughs at self).
Of course you can really like the K-01 and for some very good reasons but, unfortunately, that didn't mean it was a sustainably viable design/offering that appealed to enough people (for equally good reasons).
07-08-2014, 07:46 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Of course you can really like the K-01 and for some very good reasons but, unfortunately, that didn't mean it was a sustainably viable design/offering that appealed to enough people (for equally good reasons).
I briefly considered a K-01 very recently (this weekend!) as a second camera until I realized it is essentially still going to be a brick with a soda can stuck to the side of it and I was looking for portable (read: SMALL). To add insult to injury, the only thing they seemed to have removed from it to reduce size is the one thing I really enjoy about my traditional SLR camera - the view finder. And I don't think there is an EVF available.

So that camera didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I can see it being useful in film setups though.. but for stills? no thanks.. it isn't compact like a compact nor does it benefit from a proper viewfinder like a traditional SLR body.. so it is in this strange bizarro awkward space.

07-08-2014, 11:57 PM   #99
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If they did (and they still might btw) designed the K-01 as a video cam la GH4, they might have nailed it.
That would be a pretty good reason to go mirrorless with Kmount.
07-09-2014, 03:28 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
I briefly considered a K-01 very recently (this weekend!) as a second camera until I realized it is essentially still going to be a brick with a soda can stuck to the side of it and I was looking for portable (read: SMALL). To add insult to injury, the only thing they seemed to have removed from it to reduce size is the one thing I really enjoy about my traditional SLR camera - the view finder. And I don't think there is an EVF available.

So that camera didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I can see it being useful in film setups though.. but for stills? no thanks.. it isn't compact like a compact nor does it benefit from a proper viewfinder like a traditional SLR body.. so it is in this strange bizarro awkward space.
I don't think Pentaxians would have been happy with any camera like the K-01. If, Pentax had come out with a "true mirrorless," with a new mount, shorter registration distance, new lenses and an adapter sold separately, people would have complained, asking what the point was and why they shouldn't get a NEX or similar camera. Once you decided to keep the mount the same and an auto focus motor inside, a certain amount of the size of the camera is predetermined. The Sony Nex 7 is 16 mm thinner than the K-01 and 12 mm shorter and weighs 150 grams less, but doesn't include a focus motor or shake reduction in the body. People talk as though there is a huge difference in size, but there really isn't. Once you decide to stick an APS-C sensor in a camera, mirrorless or not, it isn't going to be tiny.

If Pentax came out with a K-01 with an EVF, better frame rate, better buffer and it sold in the 400 dollar range (I got my original K-01 for 250), I think it would fly off the shelves. Not necessarily to people here on the forum, but just in general.
07-09-2014, 05:00 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
If Pentax came out with a K-01 with an EVF, better frame rate, better buffer and it sold in the 400 dollar range
basicaly a k30/50/5 with an EVF in fact.
07-09-2014, 05:11 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
basicaly a k30/50/5 with an EVF in fact.
You mean a Sony A77 SLT. There are no dslr's with evf, hard to design since there is a ovf in the way. Fuji xt-1 looks good too. A hybrid evf/ovf for dslr would be cool but probably will not happen.
07-09-2014, 05:41 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
You mean a Sony A77 SLT.
No, not an SLT. Yes i mean a K30/50/5 with an EVF. Because the K-01 is mirrorless, so the supposed k-02 we spoke about, will be mirrorless too. And basicaly a K -01 with better frame rate, better buffer, is a K5 without mirror box or OVF.

So Yes i mean a K30/50/5 with an EVF.
07-09-2014, 05:50 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by aurele Quote
basicaly a k30/50/5 with an EVF in fact.
But smaller and with a very different look/feel. With PDAF on the sensor, it could focus pretty decently, I would imagine.
07-09-2014, 07:04 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
But smaller and with a very different look/feel. With PDAF on the sensor, it could focus pretty decently, I would imagine.
Yeah. An updated K-01 with hybrid on-sensor PDAF would be great IMO -- I don't even think it would need to be much smaller than the current model, but I'd like to see an EVF and a deeper cut for the hand grip.
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