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07-31-2014, 08:29 AM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Blame Hoya.
That's what I did for two years.

We've passed the three year anniversary though. Not a super-huge delay in the grand scheme but if nothing great comes out at Photokina I'm blaming Ricoh, not Hoya.

07-31-2014, 08:30 AM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Well, I'm pretty sure that Ricoh could have released one at the latest this year if they were ever willing to. But instead they have decided to concentrate on 645, APS-C and toy cameras.
I think Ricoh is a company that wants to make sure everything is right with a project before the release it. Getting it out at a specific time (aka Photokina) is less important to them than making sure it is going to hit a market spot and have some kind of bang on release.

And not the kind of bang the K5 sensor stains produced...
07-31-2014, 08:49 AM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Blame Hoya.
On what date will it no longer be possible to blame Hoya?
07-31-2014, 08:53 AM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
That's what I did for two years.

We've passed the three year anniversary though. Not a super-huge delay in the grand scheme but if nothing great comes out at Photokina I'm blaming Ricoh, not Hoya.
You passed the three year anniversary; Pentax Ricoh/Ricoh Imaging definitely didn't Pentax Ricoh Company started on 1st October 2011.
And they had quite a few great products: GR, K-3, 645Z, 1.4x RC...

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I don't think it is too late either.

I just meant to say that they are too late to offer the first affordable, smallish FF DSLR. That train has left.

If they really don't have more to show at Photokina this year than a new Q and some 645Z stuff, I'll start stop caring.
My apologies, I misinterpreted your post.
I agree it would be helpful, but stealing the show? No, not Pentax, not with a strong marketing. Anyway, it's not my style to mull over missed trains. What was, was - the question is what's next? (with a bit of mid-term thinking).
I'd guess catching that train meant launching a sub-par "full frame", fall behind in APS-C and hurting the 645 line, too.

We will see more than that at Photokina, I'm quite sure of it

---------- Post added 31-07-14 at 07:01 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
On what date will it no longer be possible to blame Hoya?
We should blame Hoya for that which can be attributed to Hoya; we should not blame Ricoh for things that happened before they took over, nor for the need to fix things.
"Year after year, exhibition after exhibition" - that wasn't Ricoh Imaging, they only had one Photokina so far, and it was too early to do anything. This Photokina might still be too early for a "full frame" product line, so it would make only two editions. By the third we should have a pretty good idea what's up.

07-31-2014, 09:06 AM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You passed the three year anniversary; Pentax Ricoh/Ricoh Imaging definitely didn't Pentax Ricoh Company started on 1st October 2011.
I respect Ricoh FAR too much to think they did nothing between July 1st 2011 when the purchase was announced and October 2011 when the transfer was finalized.

Just because they didn't have control of the company didn't mean they can't recruit, explore markets, make contracts with sensor suppliers etc., etc. etc.....
07-31-2014, 09:17 AM   #246
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And I'm being realistic enough to think that some time had to pass after they took control in order for that control to start being effective.
I wouldn't assume they had all the inside information and support from Hoya in order to start working before that date. I wouldn't assume they would have detailed plans, at the level of "what people we should hire for these projects", before that date. Assuming is always dangerous and often wrong.
07-31-2014, 09:58 AM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
We should blame Hoya for that which can be attributed to Hoya; we should not blame Ricoh for things that happened before they took over, nor for the need to fix things.
"Year after year, exhibition after exhibition" - that wasn't Ricoh Imaging, they only had one Photokina so far, and it was too early to do anything. This Photokina might still be too early for a "full frame" product line, so it would make only two editions. By the third we should have a pretty good idea what's up.
I'm interpreting your answer as "I'll blame Hoya for as long as I want to". Accurate?
07-31-2014, 10:03 AM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Asahi man tends to know things. I never expected a FF Pentax to arrive because we've been let down so many times and for so long. But never the less, what a f**king joke this is. Year after year, exhibition after exhibition, it's just around the corner. And so many seem to have believed it once again. Like a cat chasing its own tail, almost at reach but never quite there.
If the long telezoom is arriving for real, this year I will spend some money for Pentax, a thing I stopped to do since the arrive of the K-5. I finally will switch to K-3, if the 400mm zoom will be fast enough to justify the improved AF of K-3. Without a fast tele for BIF, for me there is no reason to upgrade the old reflex. I too am interested in the fullframe, to use with my old K lenses, but I tend to think that I would spend less money for the Pentax FF that for K-3+BG+400mm zoom.

07-31-2014, 10:30 AM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
I'm interpreting your answer as "I'll blame Hoya for as long as I want to". Accurate?
If by that you mean that I'm extending the scope of that blame beyond what should be reasonably attributed to them, no, it's not at all accurate. I wonder how you managed to interpret "We should blame Hoya for that which can be attributed to Hoya" that way...
07-31-2014, 10:37 AM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by Deedee Quote
Come on people testing those Pentax cameras - Leak some damn photos under other pseudo names. Next we will have news about "Leaked images"!

Lets do it!

P.S. I am testing a full frame Pentax K-1 with ISO 300,000 and Leaf Shutter. It also has the "Movie Button" and "Swivel Screen". Camera has NFC/wifi/blue tooth. 51 AF points with 39 Cross type AF points. 11 Frames per second. Camera will be launched with a K-mount converter for full frame lenses (So people who don't want to get rid of their vintage glass can use the new system WITHOUT Vignetting). Flash Sync speed of 1/500. Processor SAFOX XXX AFZ M D N TLD module. 30 Mega Pixels. Built in Full-Tether using USB 3.0 / HDMI and Wifi with native support to Lightroom and Adobe Camera Raw.

P.P.S The camera will be designed to take X-Ray of previous dead presidents and their ghosts.

As far as I know there won't be K-1 for some time because I'm just testing K-2.
Nothing special in compare to previous models, but it is full frame.
Oh, and a viewfinder is gorgeous.
Sorry, I can't pubished pictures and technical details before Photokina because of legal obligations.
07-31-2014, 10:51 AM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
If by that you mean that I'm extending the scope of that blame beyond what should be reasonably attributed to them, no, it's not at all accurate. I wonder how you managed to interpret "We should blame Hoya for that which can be attributed to Hoya" that way...
Because you can arbitrarily attribute to Hoya anything you want for as long as you want. That's why I was asking for a real date.
07-31-2014, 11:00 AM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
And I'm being realistic enough to think that some time had to pass after they took control in order for that control to start being effective.

As am I.
07-31-2014, 11:20 AM   #253
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You're such a joker
QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
Because you can arbitrarily attribute to Hoya anything you want for as long as you want. That's why I was asking for a real date.
How many times I have to say they should be blamed for that which can be attributed to them? There's nothing arbitrary in that, in fact it requires a reasonable explanation on why a specific thing should be attributed to them and not to another factor.

I cannot provide a date because there's no such thing - there's no hard limit before which we could blame Hoya, and after which we could blame Ricoh. So we have to look at the context; which in this case was "year after year, exhibition after exhibition".

Right now, Ricoh Imaging is working to solve the production capacity problem. Hoya's strategy was based on downsizing and cost cutting...

Last edited by Kunzite; 07-31-2014 at 11:26 AM.
07-31-2014, 11:31 AM   #254
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Everyone here keeps forgetting that from calendar 4Q 2011 through calendar 2Q2013 Ricoh the parent company and all its subsidiaries were on a strict capital conservation schedule as Ricoh restructured its office equipment global operations and rationalized its business model. There literally wasn't 'external' capital made available to invest in Pentax; Pentax (Ricoh Imaging Co., Ltd.) was on a capital 'cash and carry' basis. We might not see it as such, but the investment in the new coatings evaporators associated with the HD coating process and patent (at $1,000,000 ea.) was actually a pretty big deal. During this period of capital rationing Ricoh Imaging managed also to release the K5II, K3, 1.4x TC and the 645Z, all products to which Ricoh Imaging made significant technical contributions.

Further, Ricoh has been very focused on constructing and initializing production at a massive OE plant in China, which is now largely complete and producing. [Edited. Earnings are to be released at 3:00 pm July 31, 2014 and should be a minor positive] Things in Ricoh-land are actually looking up.

If you must lay blame, blame it on Ricoh, but understand why you are doing so.

Last edited by monochrome; 07-31-2014 at 01:14 PM.
07-31-2014, 11:42 AM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Ricoh's 1Q2015 earnings statement, released today, was a minor positive
Could You provide the source please?
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