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07-31-2014, 06:41 AM   #241
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I agree that it's probably a very important factor, but not the only one.

07-31-2014, 07:13 AM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
...In brief "Pentax fullframe Body is not to see @ Photokina this year", "The next lens should be not a 2,8 70-200. It is the telezomm till 4xxmm", "What we see this year is the new Q and maybe lenses for aps-c and ff"...
Asahi man tends to know things. I never expected a FF Pentax to arrive because we've been let down so many times and for so long. But never the less, what a f**king joke this is. Year after year, exhibition after exhibition, it's just around the corner. And so many seem to have believed it once again. Like a cat chasing its own tail, almost at reach but never quite there.

Last edited by Raffwal; 07-31-2014 at 07:24 AM.
07-31-2014, 07:39 AM   #243
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Blame Hoya.
07-31-2014, 07:58 AM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Blame Hoya.
Well, I'm pretty sure that Ricoh could have released one at the latest this year if they were ever willing to. But instead they have decided to concentrate on 645, APS-C and toy cameras.

07-31-2014, 07:59 AM - 1 Like   #245
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It's Bush's fault.
07-31-2014, 08:17 AM   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Well, I'm pretty sure that Ricoh could have released one at the latest this year if they were ever willing to. But instead they have decided to concentrate on 645, APS-C and toy cameras.
You mean, they decided not to destroy themselves by making a "full frame", any "full frame", disregarding everything else?
Concentrating "on 645, APS-C and toy cameras" might be the best way to make a "full frame" product line possible. They can't do "full frame" without APS-C's support.
07-31-2014, 08:22 AM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
So, as always, FF is still in there but not actually here in physical fact. It is just around the next corner, hang on, not long now I promise you, it really is there you must believe me, be patient, just one more corner to go, you'll see it soon, you can't give up now, look at that sign in the sky, surely you can see the shape of a full-frame camera among those clouds, behold a portent, etc etc.
07-31-2014, 08:27 AM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I don't think it's too late
I don't think it is too late either.

I just meant to say that they are too late to offer the first affordable, smallish FF DSLR. That train has left.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
I also don't think they need a window of opportunity
They certainly don't need it.

But if they have had the means to use it while it was there, they could have attracted a lot of new customers.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
if there was one important enough to have a significant effect, it would definitely be exploitable by the competition.
Well, Canon and Nikon finally got there when they introduced the 6D and D600.

Before that, they did not have to change anything because they were both happily overcharging people with their big and expensive FF DSLRs.
Pentax could have stolen the show back then, but they didn't make a move (probably they could not), and that's why it took till the high-end APS-C DSLR market started to get pressure, until Canon and Nikon eventually decided they need to create the budget FF DSLR market.

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Some people left, others are coming; and each new customer is a potential FF upgrader/future buyer.
Sure.

As I said, I don't think it is too late.

However, it seems that Pentax is way too late to the party again. And being late cost them the very prominent position they once had as a camera and lens maker.

If they really don't have more to show at Photokina this year than a new Q and some 645Z stuff, I'll start stop caring.


Last edited by Class A; 07-31-2014 at 08:33 AM.
07-31-2014, 08:29 AM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Blame Hoya.
That's what I did for two years.

We've passed the three year anniversary though. Not a super-huge delay in the grand scheme but if nothing great comes out at Photokina I'm blaming Ricoh, not Hoya.
07-31-2014, 08:30 AM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Well, I'm pretty sure that Ricoh could have released one at the latest this year if they were ever willing to. But instead they have decided to concentrate on 645, APS-C and toy cameras.
I think Ricoh is a company that wants to make sure everything is right with a project before the release it. Getting it out at a specific time (aka Photokina) is less important to them than making sure it is going to hit a market spot and have some kind of bang on release.

And not the kind of bang the K5 sensor stains produced...
07-31-2014, 08:49 AM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Blame Hoya.
On what date will it no longer be possible to blame Hoya?
07-31-2014, 08:53 AM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
That's what I did for two years.

We've passed the three year anniversary though. Not a super-huge delay in the grand scheme but if nothing great comes out at Photokina I'm blaming Ricoh, not Hoya.
You passed the three year anniversary; Pentax Ricoh/Ricoh Imaging definitely didn't Pentax Ricoh Company started on 1st October 2011.
And they had quite a few great products: GR, K-3, 645Z, 1.4x RC...

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I don't think it is too late either.

I just meant to say that they are too late to offer the first affordable, smallish FF DSLR. That train has left.

If they really don't have more to show at Photokina this year than a new Q and some 645Z stuff, I'll start stop caring.
My apologies, I misinterpreted your post.
I agree it would be helpful, but stealing the show? No, not Pentax, not with a strong marketing. Anyway, it's not my style to mull over missed trains. What was, was - the question is what's next? (with a bit of mid-term thinking).
I'd guess catching that train meant launching a sub-par "full frame", fall behind in APS-C and hurting the 645 line, too.

We will see more than that at Photokina, I'm quite sure of it

---------- Post added 31-07-14 at 07:01 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
On what date will it no longer be possible to blame Hoya?
We should blame Hoya for that which can be attributed to Hoya; we should not blame Ricoh for things that happened before they took over, nor for the need to fix things.
"Year after year, exhibition after exhibition" - that wasn't Ricoh Imaging, they only had one Photokina so far, and it was too early to do anything. This Photokina might still be too early for a "full frame" product line, so it would make only two editions. By the third we should have a pretty good idea what's up.
07-31-2014, 09:06 AM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
You passed the three year anniversary; Pentax Ricoh/Ricoh Imaging definitely didn't Pentax Ricoh Company started on 1st October 2011.
I respect Ricoh FAR too much to think they did nothing between July 1st 2011 when the purchase was announced and October 2011 when the transfer was finalized.

Just because they didn't have control of the company didn't mean they can't recruit, explore markets, make contracts with sensor suppliers etc., etc. etc.....
07-31-2014, 09:17 AM   #254
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And I'm being realistic enough to think that some time had to pass after they took control in order for that control to start being effective.
I wouldn't assume they had all the inside information and support from Hoya in order to start working before that date. I wouldn't assume they would have detailed plans, at the level of "what people we should hire for these projects", before that date. Assuming is always dangerous and often wrong.
07-31-2014, 09:58 AM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
We should blame Hoya for that which can be attributed to Hoya; we should not blame Ricoh for things that happened before they took over, nor for the need to fix things.
"Year after year, exhibition after exhibition" - that wasn't Ricoh Imaging, they only had one Photokina so far, and it was too early to do anything. This Photokina might still be too early for a "full frame" product line, so it would make only two editions. By the third we should have a pretty good idea what's up.
I'm interpreting your answer as "I'll blame Hoya for as long as I want to". Accurate?
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