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07-31-2014, 04:33 PM   #286
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pl Jensen Quote
I certainly hope so, but suspect a 24mp FF body....

---------- Post added 08-01-14 at 01:20 AM ----------



Nikon and Canon MF rumors has been around since 1979.....
The fact that cameras are available in stock doesn't mean that pre-orders are false. Sold out means that Pentax (the factory) have sold them; not the shops....

It probably sells very well and Pentax needs to exploit the momentum and release updated lenses as soon as possible....

---------- Post added 08-01-14 at 01:22 AM ----------



I think they have been far more vague than that....
Yes, you're right. But I remember some folks here saying that 645z is such a big success even before the camera was release to the market, that only pre-orders will be available this year. And I'm pretty sure that those people has not intentionally misinforming us. They just told us what they have heard from some ''reliable sources''. Now, is only one month after the launch, and the camera is already available in stock. This raise some questions. Many questions.


Last edited by JimmyDranox; 07-31-2014 at 04:40 PM.
07-31-2014, 05:23 PM   #287
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
and the camera is already available in stock
Same story with the K-3 Silver Limited - but we suspect they increased production to meet high pre-build demand and overshot just a bit. The fact that the two largest dealers in North America have at least one $9,000 camera body listed as In Stock doesn't really indicate much.
07-31-2014, 05:36 PM - 2 Likes   #288
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The prophet Asahiman has spoken; hopefully this time he is right, or he wishes to avoid yesteryear's failed attempt at prophecy.

In short, Asahiman says:

- No FF this Photokina. Don't expect it.

- There will be new Q and some APS-C lenses (coated in HD?), a new lens is perhaps that zoom 150-450 or thereabouts.

- The 70-200 will not be announced yet. (Who knows when)

- The production of TCs is apparently warming up. Lots of demands, but supply is still inadequate.

And that's it.

Possible reason for no FF this year: aliens have eaten all FF plans and cameras from Pentax. This info comes from an other source.

In short, it's a typical Pentax saga: when you optimistically expect the best, be reminded that it can be much worse than what you pessimistically feared. And you won't be disappointed

Last edited by Uluru; 07-31-2014 at 05:44 PM.
07-31-2014, 06:17 PM - 2 Likes   #289
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
But I remember some folks here saying that 645z is such a big success even before the camera was release to the market, that only pre-orders will be available this year.
Pre-orders at the consumer level or pre-orders at the wholesale level? I do not think it was ever clarified. As far as Ricoh and production is concerned if B&H orders 25 units those are 'sold' even if they then sit on the shelf at B&H.

QuoteQuote:
Full frame K-mount needs a whole set of lenses that are as good as Nikon or Canon's, and especially better than Sigma. If they released a FF camera without a set of lenses for it, it would just be a gift to Sigma.
Yes, they could likely release a FF with a bare minimum of lenses, both legacy and maybe re-badged. But if they want to do it right, maybe they need more time. Why jump into a highly competitive market with a second rate line up? Who will buy? A few Pentax enthusiasts that already have most of the lenses they need. Where is the profit in that?

Lots of rumors abound about others entering the MF market, especially now that a good CMOS sensor is available. So if you are Ricoh and could add a FF to the line which will be mostly a me too camera competing with well entrenched companies or a MF camera and be first to market in that segment (defined as almost affordable MF) which would you do? Many people complaining here for years that Ricoh missed the boat on affordable FF. Maybe they did, and maybe they know that so they pushed all resources into making sure they do not miss the boat on the MF market.

What I mean is will it really matter at this point if they release FF this fall or two years from now? I don't think so, those that needed (had to have) a FF already left. But if they want to dominate the MF market now is the time, get out front and run with new camera, new lenses, new accessories. Create and define that market, let everyone else play catch up. They can release a FF next year and they will still have to start almost from nothing to build that market because they will need to take users away from others. In MF, they are almost alone.

It might not be popular here, but jumping 100% into the MF market and letting the FF go for now may, FROM A STRATEGIC SENSE, be a stroke of genius. Would you rather be #3 or 4 or 5 in the FF market or #1 in the MF market? Which strategy gets you more eventual market share, brand recognition, media publicity and at the same time opens doors into a world of professional photography that Canon and Nikon do not compete in?

07-31-2014, 06:31 PM   #290
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Would you rather be #3 or 4 or 5 in the FF market or #1 in the MF market?
Both
07-31-2014, 06:37 PM   #291
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So who is selling their Pentax gear for a low low price come September 22nd after Photokina is in the books? I'm looking for some bargains!
07-31-2014, 06:53 PM   #292
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tesla Quote
Both
Me too. And maybe they will still surprise us.
07-31-2014, 07:08 PM   #293
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Pre-orders at the consumer level or pre-orders at the wholesale level? I do not think it was ever clarified. As far as Ricoh and production is concerned if B&H orders 25 units those are 'sold' even if they then sit on the shelf at B&H.

Yes, they could likely release a FF with a bare minimum of lenses, both legacy and maybe re-badged. But if they want to do it right, maybe they need more time. Why jump into a highly competitive market with a second rate line up? Who will buy? A few Pentax enthusiasts that already have most of the lenses they need. Where is the profit in that?

Lots of rumors abound about others entering the MF market, especially now that a good CMOS sensor is available. So if you are Ricoh and could add a FF to the line which will be mostly a me too camera competing with well entrenched companies or a MF camera and be first to market in that segment (defined as almost affordable MF) which would you do? Many people complaining here for years that Ricoh missed the boat on affordable FF. Maybe they did, and maybe they know that so they pushed all resources into making sure they do not miss the boat on the MF market.

What I mean is will it really matter at this point if they release FF this fall or two years from now? I don't think so, those that needed (had to have) a FF already left. But if they want to dominate the MF market now is the time, get out front and run with new camera, new lenses, new accessories. Create and define that market, let everyone else play catch up. They can release a FF next year and they will still have to start almost from nothing to build that market because they will need to take users away from others. In MF, they are almost alone.

It might not be popular here, but jumping 100% into the MF market and letting the FF go for now may, FROM A STRATEGIC SENSE, be a stroke of genius. Would you rather be #3 or 4 or 5 in the FF market or #1 in the MF market? Which strategy gets you more eventual market share, brand recognition, media publicity and at the same time opens doors into a world of professional photography that Canon and Nikon do not compete in?
That all makes sense if the MF market is one worth pursuing by Ricoh if not outright capturing. As everyone here knows, there's not a lot of conviction in the answer to that question. If you're selling a $30,000 camera, you don't really care if MF is a bona fide niche or not just as long as you sell some cameras. Ricoh's gamble is different than that.

07-31-2014, 07:14 PM   #294
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QuoteOriginally posted by banep Quote
As far as I know there won't be K-1 for some time because I'm just testing K-2.
Nothing special in compare to previous models, but it is full frame.
Oh, and a viewfinder is gorgeous.
Sorry, I can't pubished pictures and technical details before Photokina because of legal obligations.
Are you joking, or is this an insider scoop???
07-31-2014, 07:44 PM   #295
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
Are you joking, or is this an insider scoop???
Seems like a joke.

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Tell us more, banep !

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07-31-2014, 08:13 PM   #296
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
That all makes sense if the MF market is one worth pursuing by Ricoh if not outright capturing.
+1

Also, if you convert the 4:3 format of the 645Z into 3:2 (the one we know from regular DSLRs) then 45MP of the 51MP remain.

Compared to the 36MP of a D810, that's just a resolution advantage of 12.3% (linearly). There's more to MF than just resolution, but with a 0.8 crop factor compared to FF (D810, A7r, ...), the crop-MF 645Z is not a huge step up in quality but a huge step up in price.

The 645Z may be a bargain in the MF world, but compared to FF its market can't be that big.
07-31-2014, 08:43 PM   #297
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
+1

Also, if you convert the 4:3 format of the 645Z into 3:2 (the one we know from regular DSLRs) then 45MP of the 51MP remain.
OK. But what if you prefer 4:3 aspect and crop the D810? Surely the squarish aspect of MF is part of the appeal, not a bug.
07-31-2014, 09:37 PM   #298
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
OK. But what if you prefer 4:3 aspect and crop the D810? Surely the squarish aspect of MF is part of the appeal, not a bug.
Cropped to 3:2: 1.222 Crop Factor, 45MP vs 36MP
Neutral: 1.296 Crop Factor, 51MP vs 36MP
Cropped to 4:3: 1.375, 51MP vs 32MP

I used to like 4:3 more than I do now. Something to do with 16:9 TV's everywhere? Dunno.
07-31-2014, 09:47 PM   #299
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Surely the squarish aspect of MF is part of the appeal, not a bug.
For me it isn't.

The 4:3 aspect ratio of the 645 format is best known through P&S compacts and that's not the only reason why it looks worse to me.

A real square format is a different matter, but very hard to shoot with well.
08-01-2014, 12:35 AM   #300
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
+1

Also, if you convert the 4:3 format of the 645Z into 3:2 (the one we know from regular DSLRs) then 45MP of the 51MP remain.

Compared to the 36MP of a D810, that's just a resolution advantage of 12.3% (linearly). There's more to MF than just resolution, but with a 0.8 crop factor compared to FF (D810, A7r, ...), the crop-MF 645Z is not a huge step up in quality but a huge step up in price.

The 645Z may be a bargain in the MF world, but compared to FF its market can't be that big.
Which exactly means that Pentax cannot rely on MF alone.

The price gap between the K-3 and 645Z is still too wide to swallow, and the linear resolution between the FF of other makers and the 645Z is negligible.

Which points, again, to an ancient saga: the Pentax systems lineup does not make sense for its users. The lack of FF does not mean that 645 is the answer by Pentax to the FF question, because it is not. It is only a prolongation of the same agony. Because Pentax cannot build any practical answer around the 645 lenses and its mount. Only impractical answers.

In addition, the FA and DFA lenses are wasted without an FF. Pentax needs the FF to fortify their own K-mount first, as anything that can be constructed around the 645 mount to "compete" with top FF boys is HUGE, and is not practical. And costs as twice as much at least. In a direct comparison, Nikon's D810 will win over the 645Z any time in people's minds, because it is more accessible, more practical, and much cheaper. Disadvantages of the D810 are negligible when one puts it all down.

So I find it almost unbelievable that we are almost into 2015, and Pentax does not have an FF. Because many who want a 645, and can't get one, will opt for an FF of other brands. The DSLR range in K-mount in incomplete without an FF, it does not make any sense. And Pentax loses its momentum every single Photokina.

Last edited by Uluru; 08-01-2014 at 12:48 AM.
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