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08-02-2014, 06:21 PM   #361
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And I think that you can put your FA, F, A, M, K, lenses on a, ''future'' Pentax FF, better than on a Sony A7.

08-02-2014, 07:29 PM   #362
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QuoteOriginally posted by JimmyDranox Quote
And I think that you can put your FA, F, A, M, K, lenses on a, ''future'' Pentax FF, better than on a Sony A7.
True but there must be at least 10x the number of FF lenses you can stick on that dang Sony FF MILC (once you get the appropriate adapter).

IMHO, the real question is whether the FA Ltd and D-FA lineup is big enough to launch a FF DSLR. If nothing else, it's at least something tangible to start with.
08-02-2014, 07:39 PM   #363
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just wondering- if Pentax can't make a dFF camera, why hasn't Fuji toyed around with the idea yet? They can make their own sensors.. And they pretty much launched the X-mount line with only 3 lenses. Is it also because how smaller they are compared to CanikonY? Imagine a 36x24 XT-1... (thinner than a K-3, but just as high)
08-02-2014, 07:58 PM   #364
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Rumor has it that Fuji will come out with a 44x33mm mirrorless. We'll see.

08-02-2014, 08:21 PM - 1 Like   #365
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
IMHO, the real question is whether the FA Ltd and D-FA lineup is big enough to launch a FF DSLR.
Short answer is no, IMHO.
To launch a FF system (not just a camera but a full "we are in it to stay" system) you need zooms:
16-35 ish (something ultra wide anyway)
24-70 f/2.8 (or similar)
70-200 f/2.8 (or similar)
and primes:
20mm
31mm
43mm
50mm f/1.4
50mm macro
77mm
100mm macro
300mm

Many of the primes are already available and with new coatings would be just fine. But without those three zooms it is not going to happen. There are a number of other lenses that should be included (like a 135-400 or a 400mm prime) but those can be added later after the launch without being an issue.

Actually looking at the list Ricoh could launch with a rather impressive list of prime lenses if they revised the line similar to what they did with the DA Limiteds. But it will take a lot of work/time to put three top quality zooms in the basket and there is no reason to release a camera that will not sell without an excellent modern zoom lens line.

And yes I know the FA*28-70 and 80-200 designs are on the shelf, but those are old, antiquated designs that incorporate power zoom making them even heavier and more complex. I don't want a re-run of 20 year old technology. That will not be good enough if they really want to play in this market.
08-02-2014, 08:42 PM   #366
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^^ This - and IMHO work on these lenses was deferred to work on 645 lenses, despite what another poster responded. Pentax is a small company with a limited staff of engineers and limited production facilities. There might actually be more money in 645, especially since Pentax has first-mover advantage with the new sensor.

This is the most logical impediment. Nothing else makes sense.
08-02-2014, 09:41 PM - 1 Like   #367
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Pentax has first-mover advantage with the new sensor.
I thought they had a cost advantage... but Hasselblad/Phase One were first to market?
08-03-2014, 01:15 AM   #368
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Rumor has it that Fuji will come out with a 44x33mm mirrorless. We'll see.
The sensor can't be to expensive then. Well if all of them make a camera with that sensor, the market for it will grow and all wil make a loss in the proces. There is a market for a mirrorless with that sensor.With a registrationdistance shorter then K-mount the camera could be the size of the K-01!!!!!!!!!!!

08-03-2014, 01:31 AM - 1 Like   #369
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QuoteOriginally posted by IchabodCrane Quote
the real question is whether the FA Ltd and D-FA lineup is big enough to launch a FF DSLR
QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Short answer is no, IMHO.
Why so negative?
Before Sony launched the A7 series of full-frames (A7, A7r, now A7s), there wasn't a single full-frame E-mount lens in existence.
In contrast, as we all know, Pentax already has lenses in their current catalog that would work straight away on a Pentax FF, and others (eg Sigma & Tamron) do too. With autofocus and auto aperture, and not needing any adapter.

Last edited by rawr; 08-03-2014 at 01:37 AM.
08-03-2014, 03:50 AM   #370
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belnan Quote
I always told myself that if Pentax released a full frame camera I would buy the FA43 with it. Maybe they will offer it as a kit.
That's the *only* reason I want a FF Pentax - to use my 43mm and 31mm as I used them on my MZ-3. Multiply them by 1.5 and they lose all their magic. If there were fast (rather than slow pancake) DA Limiteds, I'd switch in a shot, but a 21/3.2 on crop sensor can't be compared with a 31/1.8on a 35mm frame.

Funnily enough, when I mentioned this to a Pentax Pro dealer, he (a Nikon semi-pro shooter) said the only thing keeping him from switching from Nikon full frame to Pentax APS-C was his investment in Nikon big glass.
08-03-2014, 08:35 AM   #371
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Why so negative? Before Sony launched the A7 series of full-frames (A7, A7r, now A7s), there wasn't a single full-frame E-mount lens in existence. In contrast, as we all know, Pentax already has lenses in their current catalog that would work straight away on a Pentax FF, and others (eg Sigma & Tamron) do too. With autofocus and auto aperture, and not needing any adapter.
Not really negative. I expect we will eventually see a FF system from Ricoh. Maybe even soon. I was just trying to point out that "to do it right" they will need a full line of zooms and primes, IMHO. Sony has a reputation for throwing things into the market and seeing what works. They have a massive marketing machine that allows them to do that. Ricoh does not seem to work that way, they don't really have much of a marketing machine at least in the US. So yes, I agree with you 100% they COULD release a FF without all the lenses in my list and rely on third party ones and 20 year old models on their own list. But they will not. When they have a good set of zooms to go with the remodeled prime lenses in the catalog, then we will see FF.
08-03-2014, 08:59 AM   #372
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I think Ricoh releases FF with the zooms to go along with it in one swoop.

Releasing the lenses first is a bit too-much of the cat-out-of-the-bag in my estimation. But we'll see. Heck they might not release a FF at all.
08-03-2014, 08:59 AM   #373
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
Not really negative. I expect we will eventually see a FF system from Ricoh. Maybe even soon. I was just trying to point out that "to do it right" they will need a full line of zooms and primes, IMHO. Sony has a reputation for throwing things into the market and seeing what works. They have a massive marketing machine that allows them to do that. Ricoh does not seem to work that way, they don't really have much of a marketing machine at least in the US. So yes, I agree with you 100% they COULD release a FF without all the lenses in my list and rely on third party ones and 20 year old models on their own list. But they will not. When they have a good set of zooms to go with the remodeled prime lenses in the catalog, then we will see FF.
And yet that is exactly what they did with the 645D. The camera launched with exactly 1 new lens, and now over 4 years after its launch, there have been a total of 3 new lenses. The rest of the catalogue is fulfilled by old FA lenses.

I don't know of any camera system that required a full lineup of brand new lenses at launch. Canikon FF relied on existing film lenses at launch, with gradual updates over time. To this very day, there are still film lenses in their current catalogues (like the Canon 100-400mm L). All modern mirrorless systems (m4/3, e-mount, x-mount, etc.) started from scratch with just a few primes and/or standard zoom.

Why is there some requirement on a Pentax FF to have a huge and complete lineup of brand new lenses, something that does not seem to hold back any other manufacturer?
08-03-2014, 09:17 AM   #374
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cannikin Quote
Why is there some requirement on a Pentax FF to have a huge and complete lineup of brand new lenses, something that does not seem to hold back any other manufacturer?
Given the nature of lens manufacturing, which I understand is to produce a run of lenses and hold them in warehouses for up to YEARS, what we don't know is whether Pentax is actually producing FA645 lenses or just running off old stock. It could well be that a part of the economics of the 645D / Z relies on selling an existing inventory of FA645 at what amounts to 100% free cash flow. Perhaps as stock of a lens begins to run low development of a replacement is brought forward. We just don't know.

The D-FA Macros are instructive - they were updated when stock ran out. Was there an inventory of old FA 28-70 and 80-200 zoom lenses and FA primes beyond the FA50/1.4 and the three Limiteds (all of which a few posters here say have not been produced in over two years) perhaps the urgency to release a FF would be different.

Again, we just don't know.
08-03-2014, 09:43 AM   #375
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
The sensor can't be to expensive then. Well if all of them make a camera with that sensor, the market for it will grow and all wil make a loss in the proces. There is a market for a mirrorless with that sensor.With a registrationdistance shorter then K-mount the camera could be the size of the K-01!!!!!!!!!!!
Bingo - i think thats the interesting possibilities that mirrorless construction brings to the design table. Sure, the initial mirrorless cams were as expensive as the DSLRs, but as the technology becomes more commonplace, prices are dropping. For example, the Sony A6000 is much lower priced than the Nex6, its predecessor.

Companies like Fuji, Pentax, Panasonic and Samsung may find it much easier and quicker to design a mirrorless FF than a DSLR format. Although a DSLR retains some advantages, a mirrorless will certainly be able to compete on IQ within its functional limitations - i.e. battery life, EVF, etc.
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