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08-10-2014, 04:12 PM   #616
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
But maybe that's exactly what would limit the interest of all those with APS glass.
Things are always more coplicated than we think they are.
Maybe things are complicated. Or maybe there are very simple. So simple as: there is no perfect solution. Try to find it and you'll fail. There are only ways. Some better for some, other better for others. If we keep looking for perfect solution, anybody will never do anything.

08-10-2014, 04:43 PM   #617
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Maybe you just should use a Full Frame lens on it and stop cropping...........
I'd rather have a crop mode for tele lenses..
08-10-2014, 04:54 PM   #618
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Maybe you just should use a Full Frame lens on it and stop cropping...........
Lots of reasons to crop. Carrying half as much glass, owning half as much glass, telephotos+frame rate, etc.
08-10-2014, 05:12 PM   #619
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
To my mind, the most logical first full frame from Pentax would be one which did not encroach on the 645Z's territory, which is basically landscapes and studio.
Except that is the market for a FF camera. Landscape and portraiture (non-studio) are the use cases I would use one for.


Steve

---------- Post added 08-10-14 at 05:16 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
It seems too optimistic (to me) to assume Pentax will get a sensor that no one else has used yet
That is an interesting thought and one that is frequently expressed on PF. It has occurred to me that Ricoh's main line of business at this point of history is copier technology and the core of high end copier technology is high speed, high resolution digital sensors. Do think there is any chance that Ricoh (like their copier competition Canon) might leverage their broader resources to develop sensors in-house?


Steve

---------- Post added 08-10-14 at 05:19 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Hoya did the same with K-7 and 645D.
Not really.


Steve

08-10-2014, 05:21 PM   #620
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Surely it would be better to keep an APS-C body for your DA lenses and telephotos, than crop from a 36x24....
08-10-2014, 05:25 PM   #621
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
What local dealers? The local camera shop has the same fate as the local book store.
It is so good to live in the Portland area where we have several brick and mortar camera stores including one that sells Pentax. We also have a plethora of book stores and a vibrant film photography scene. Go figure.


Steve

---------- Post added 08-10-14 at 05:28 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
In the USA Olympus (I presume) had a formal distribution model from the film era. My parents bought an OM-1 for my brother at one of these camera stores. It is possible Oly didn't destroy their model they way Hoya did to Pentax. Oly has multiple bodies for sale in this chain's online store.

Fuji is non-existent in this chain - just 2 bodies, 3 lenses, 2 super compacts and some batteries and film.
Both Olympus and Fuji have a fairly low profile here in the Portland area, about the same as Pentax and less than Sony. Yes, you can buy all four in places other than a Best Buy.


Steve

---------- Post added 08-10-14 at 05:39 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Surely it would be better to keep an APS-C body for your DA lenses and telephotos, than crop from a 36x24....
Indeed. While many buyers of the long rumored FF Pentax will be new users, it is a sure thing that existing owners of APS-C lenses are also existing owners of APS-C Pentax cameras. If a FF Pentax does materialize in the near future, I will likely buy one, but I will for sure not get rid of the K-3, no way! I sort of like the extra reach possible with a moderately long focal length. The FF will be used for 85mm and shorter exclusively!


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 08-10-2014 at 05:40 PM.
08-10-2014, 05:41 PM   #622
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
That is an interesting thought and one that is frequently expressed on PF. It has occurred to me that Ricoh's main line of business at this point of history is copier technology and the core of high end copier technology is high speed, high resolution digital sensors. Do think there is any chance that Ricoh (like their copier competition Canon) might leverage their broader resources to develop sensors in-house?
Someone upthread suggested Ricoh has grown from nothing to besting Canon in copiers (in 30 years) . . . . .
08-10-2014, 05:47 PM   #623
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It has occurred to me that Ricoh's main line of business at this point of history is copier technology and the core of high end copier technology is high speed, high resolution digital sensors. Do think there is any chance that Ricoh (like their copier competition Canon) might leverage their broader resources to develop sensors in-house?
Not sure the technology is the same, but then I'll admit it is still magic to me how white paper goes in one side and printing comes out the other. I did have my copier repair person tell me they were excited about the Pentax purchase because it would give the copier division access to "some exciting digital imaging technology". No idea what he meant, this was not long after the purchase.

According to the Ricoh website they have a semi-conductor division and another source states they have two fabs, one in Yashira and one in Osaka. But the product list shows power management, automotive, real time clock ICs and LED drivers. All parts that might have a use in copiers. No idea if the technology extends to camera sensor chips.

08-10-2014, 06:03 PM   #624
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
Surely it would be better to keep an APS-C body for your DA lenses and telephotos, than crop from a 36x24....
Why? I don't want to spend an extra $1k and lug an extra camera around.

Heck, I'd pay to have a 150% coverage viewfinder on my APS-C cameras. Plus, if I want to, I could just run it in FF mode with an APS-C lens and get portrait mode without turning the camera, or a square mode that's about 65% bigger than possible on APS-C...

Etc.

If I'm already buying a FF camera there's really not very much downside. Sure, it'll likely be a 16MP image rather than a 24MP image... but with my K-5 results I'm really OK with that.
08-10-2014, 06:29 PM   #625
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Why? I don't want to spend an extra $1k and lug an extra camera around.
But don't you already have an APS-C camera?
08-10-2014, 08:40 PM   #626
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So far rumors for other makers in Photokina 2014:

Fuji: X-Pro 2, X100T
Sony: FF NEX-5-like body
Nikon: "new FF body"
Canon: "7D MkII" announcement and...


...I had a good laugh at the "50MP sensor made by Sony" part... not because Canon bowed down to Sony fabs this time, but that it seems a little too 645Z

I wonder what cards Pentax really has up its sleeves this time.. if it has any.

Last edited by Alizarine; 08-10-2014 at 08:42 PM. Reason: added image
08-10-2014, 09:51 PM   #627
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sandy Hancock Quote
But don't you already have an APS-C camera?
Sold one (two if you count the K200D a few years back)... so down to two.

Future purchases are all going to be 36x24mm and 36MP or larger, unless it's for a P&S. Which will make the 16MP APS-C I have redundant. Buying an APS-C camera (for me) in the future makes no sense (again, for me). I'd rather just carry two FF's.
08-10-2014, 10:00 PM   #628
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Why? I don't want to spend an extra $1k and lug an extra camera around.
A FF and an APS-C out in the field on important jobs solves a lot of problems. Especially if the bodies are around the same size, have about the same controls - and have the same lens mount too, of course.

One problem solved is simply backup. You''d probably be carrying two cameras anyhow for backup, so why not one FF, one APS-C.

Then one body for reach (APS-C), another for wide (FF). Or one body for low-light and/or bokeh (FF), another for fps and/or DOF and/or video (APS-C). Depending on the shoot.

---------- Post added 2014-08-11 at 03:02 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
I'd rather just carry two FF's.
Makes sense. Just with different lenses mounted.
08-10-2014, 10:20 PM   #629
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
So far rumors for other makers in Photokina 2014:

Fuji: X-Pro 2, X100T
Sony: FF NEX-5-like body
Nikon: "new FF body"
Canon: "7D MkII" announcement and...

...I had a good laugh at the "50MP sensor made by Sony" part... not because Canon bowed down to Sony fabs this time, but that it seems a little too 645Z

I wonder what cards Pentax really has up its sleeves this time.. if it has any.
Ricoh was sleepy for almost two years, and then woke up to start frantically working on the 645Z to steal the thunder from the Canon MF camera that industry insiders know it is coming. Ricoh knows it too. That is most likely why they are issuing old FA MF lenses worldwide now (almost 3 years after the acquisition of Pentax !), and deliver new wide zoom and other 645 lenses, and that is why their work on the K-mount was minimal.

It would be interesting to see what will happen, but I don't doubt that Canon will run over the MF market like a steam roller. Especially considering their established professional service network others don't have. My guess is if Nikon does not enter the MF market, in 3 years time Canon will have 50% of it, Ricoh 25%, others the rest of 25%. If Nikon comes in, Ricoh will be lucky to have 10%. Others will be gone. (Perhaps Leica will remain.)

It is pity, because even with just 3-4 lenses, Canon's name and Nikon's means more because of their superior service network. Ricoh can't stand a chance in any regard against Canon. What is even more crazy, they have neglected the K-mount, they did not act immediately to establish 645 MF camera and lenses worldwide. 18 months went in vain, THEN after those18 months they started 645Z development, and only after 12 months of development and 645Z was nearing its launch, they woke up to the marketing of its lenses -- that existed and were selling in Japan in some places for 25 years already! But not elsewhere.

Even Nikon has issued a camera in Ricoh's own ground before them (Coolpix A). They are too late in everything; quite an accomplishment. How they do that?

Gosh, what a company. As stated before, I still believe Ricoh had no idea what they were buying when they bought Pentax; when they were moving chairs around and thinking in the first 18 months what to do next with a new purchase, others were busy building their new systems, networks and marketing.

PS. I expect some members to answer this thoroughly with a zeal of true fanboys to rebel against all my statements.

Last edited by Uluru; 08-10-2014 at 10:38 PM.
08-10-2014, 11:12 PM   #630
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If the Canon MF is about the same price, I would agree that many professionals and minted enthusiasts will adopt it because of the reasons you give, Uluru. But if it's twice as expensive, who knows? Interesting that it is shown with a Schneider lens mounted. It is clear that Ricoh must up its marketing and support if it is to genuinely compete with the big two. However, I get the impression from this forum that the marketing and support is somewhat better in the UK than it is in the USA and possibly Australia. I think a less USA-centric view might show a slightly different picture, but I have no real information on that.

I don't agree with you about the Coolpix A, though. It was issued only weeks before the GR, which is by all accounts a better camera, and a lot cheaper at launch, too.
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