Photokina!

northcoastgreg · 08-25-2014, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by zokes83

HD DA 35/2.4 L HD DA 40/2.8 XS HD DA 50/1.8 L HD DA 50/3.5 Macro L HD DA 85/2.8 L HD DA 18-55/3.5-5.6 DC WR HD DA 18-55/3.5-5.6 DC L

HD coatings on kit glass? Nice, but probably unlikely. And adding motors to the 18-55 will only raise its cost. Isn't the whole point of a standard kit zoom to make a semi-decent lens for as low a price as possible?

mee · 08-25-2014, 01:53 PM

Check your email -- I just got a survey from Ricoh Imaging about Pentax products.

Survey covered How often I upgrade camera bodies, where I buy, do I purchase through brick and motar or online stores, and what factors (out of 5 listed) steer me into buying the equipment I buy.. oh and of course age and level of photog experience.

Zygonyx · 08-25-2014, 02:05 PM

Got it too : interesting, i will answer for sure

@zokes83 : your list is very low profile - that is only 20 years for pentax R&D

Nicolas06 · 08-25-2014, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by zokes83

But look at the price of the 85/1.8 in Canon or Nikon mount. 450 € is to much for a budget portrait lens. The Sony SAL 85/2.8 for 230 € is affordable.

Until we stick with APSC, 85mm equivalent is 55mm.

The budget portrait lens is obviously DA50 f/1.8, very affordable. There also the FA50 f/1.4, still affordable.

For something better there DA*55 & DA70.

For the best of the best, there FA77.

Anyway there an affordable portrait lens with DA50.

The problem with a DA plastic wonder 85mm is that it will reduce the sales of DA70 ltd. many that may consider one ltd as the upgrade pass may just prefer a cheaper plastic wonder. That the case for me and the DA35 ltd that is already excelent. I might have considered DA35 ltd or FA35 f/2 if it was not available or maybe FA43 ltd.

For Canikon, the idea is simple: if you want basic you get f/1.8 or f/2 maybe. if you go highend you get f/1.4 or maybe even f/1.2.

On Pentax where the FA ltd are f/1.8 and DA ltd f/2.4 or f/2.8 only the plastic finishing, lack of hood and quick shift really make the difference. That may not be enough if the price is too affordable on the plastic wonder version

**jatrax** · 08-25-2014, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Nicolas06

On Pentax where the FA ltd are f/1.8 and DA ltd f/2.4 or f/2.8 only the plastic finishing, lack of hood and quick shift really make the difference. That may not be enough if the price is too affordable on the plastic wonder version

I can see Pentax ending up with three different 'ranges' of prime lenses.
DA - Low end all plastic, fairly fast and good quality but emphasis on cost (28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 135mm)
DA* - High end, very fast and best quality, emphasis on fast AF and image quality (24mm, 35mm, 55mm, 85mm, 200mm, 300mm, 400mm
Limited - High end, relatively slow but best image quality, emphasis on small size and craftsmanship (15,21,31,35 macro,40,43,70,77,100 macro)

Duplicating, or closely duplicating focal lengths does not negate the other features of the line. So a DA* 55mm f/1.4 and a DA 50mm f/1.8 and a Limited 40mm or 43mm can co-exist. Just like the DA 35mm f/2.4, FA 35mm f/2 and DA Limited 35mm f/2.8, they all cover unique niches.

Originally posted by Nicolas06

The problem with a DA plastic wonder 85mm is that it will reduce the sales of DA70 ltd. many that may consider one ltd as the upgrade pass may just prefer a cheaper plastic wonder.

Maybe, but the DA 70 is for APS-C so a DA 85mm f/2 that covers FF will fit right in. But I do not expect to see these all at once, I think the existing line will all get upgrades first, then 1 maybe 2 new lenses a year for a long time.

ElJamoquio · 08-25-2014, 05:28 PM

Cheaper, faster, more versatile. I can see a DA 85mm taking a bunch of sales from the DA70.

Cheaper than the 77, too, so some sales stealing there, too...

zokes83 · 08-25-2014, 10:56 PM

You're right a 85/2.8 could bring down DA 70/2.4 sales a bit, thats the reason it should not have F2, no quickshift, only plastic, no lenshood for 250 €. I think the more features and buld quality would be worth the double price for a 70/2.4 Ltd. The 50/1.8 is a portraits tele, but with relative short focal length, 85mm on aps-c are also very common too (like 135 mm on FF). But to be honest, there isn't really a lack of lenses is this range.

A cheap macro maybe based on the DFA50/2.8 would be nice, like Nikon has with the 40/2.8.

The rest on my list are allready on the roadmap or just HD-versions from old designs despite of the DC-Kit-zooms.

A wether sealed wide-zoom is a must! Also replacement for the old 16-45 and 17-70 with sealing and DC-motor too. A 135-400 if this comes with that focal range would be a 3-times zoom that could be cheaper or better than the Nikkor 80-400 VR (5x) that costs about 2200 €. Maybee as HD DA AW with metal body like the 560/5.6.

Last edited by zokes83; 08-26-2014 at 12:38 AM.

romeck · 08-28-2014, 02:12 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by Mistral75

Originally posted by monochrome Quote Pentax did it under both owners. Pentax is nothing more than a brand name nowadays, like Lumix (Panasonic) or Alpha (Sony).

Originally posted by monochrome

Please. We've been over that ground. A company is its traditions and its employees. I don't care who owns it or what the name is,
the company is Pentax.

I.

The company is Asahi Kōgaku Kōgyō G.K. (1919 - 1937)
The company is Asahi Optical Co. (1938 - 2002)
The company is Pentax Corporation (2002 - 2007)
The company is Hoya Pentax HD Corporation (1 October 2007 - 1 July 2011)
then as a new company Pentax Imaging Systems Division was sold to Ricoh: "all current products will continue to be sold with the PENTAX brand name under current operations"
The company is Pentax Ricoh Imaging Company (1 October 2011 - 31 July 2013)
The company is Ricoh Imaging Company, Ltd. (1 August 2013 - at present)
but: Pentax Imaging Systems Division still exit ("Ricoh, which is the parent company to Pentax") so

II.

The Pentax is a brand name of VEB Zeiss Ikon. ( ? - 1954)
The Pentax is a brand name of Asahi Optical Corporation. (1954 - 2002)
The Pentax is a brand name of Pentax Corporation (2002 - 2007)
The Pentax is a brand name of Hoya Corporation (2007 - 2011)
The Pentax is a brand name of Pentax Ricoh Imaging (2011 - 2013)
The Pentax is a brand name of Ricoh Imaging (2013 - at present)

phew...

Alizarine · 08-28-2014, 02:40 AM

Originally posted by zokes83

HD DA 16-70/4 DC WR

I think this one will be difficult given that it can be a fairly large lens with many elements. The 18-270 rebadge from Tamron could've gotten a DC motor but they opted for SDM; on the other hand the DA 560 f5.6 only has 6 in 5 groups, so maybe that's why it still got a DC motor.

IchabodCrane · 08-28-2014, 04:55 AM

Originally posted by Alizarine

I think this one will be difficult given that it can be a fairly large lens with many elements. The 18-270 rebadge from Tamron could've gotten a DC motor but they opted for SDM; on the other hand the DA 560 f5.6 only has 6 in 5 groups, so maybe that's why it still got a DC motor.

The DA 18-135 has 13 elements / 11 groups and yet has a DC motor.

thibs · 08-28-2014, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by Alizarine

I think this one will be difficult given that it can be a fairly large lens with many elements. The 18-270 rebadge from Tamron could've gotten a DC motor but they opted for SDM; on the other hand the DA 560 f5.6 only has 6 in 5 groups, so maybe that's why it still got a DC motor.

IMO it is much more simple (alas), they just went with what Tamron builds.
I'm pretty sure the motors are the Tamron motors. No QuickShift, guess why?

Alizarine · 08-28-2014, 06:47 AM

Originally posted by IchabodCrane

The DA 18-135 has 13 elements / 11 groups and yet has a DC motor.

point taken, thanks. That lens is a lot smaller than the 18-270 though.

Originally posted by thibs

IMO it is much more simple (alas), they just went with what Tamron builds.
I'm pretty sure the motors are the Tamron motors. No QuickShift, guess why?

You mean the PZD motors on the Tamron version?

thibs · 08-28-2014, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by Alizarine

point taken, thanks. That lens is a lot smaller than the 18-270 though.

You mean the PZD motors on the Tamron version?

yep.

Pentax 18-250 didn't have QS either AFAICT. Coincidence? I don't think so.

EDIT
There's no point in a rebadge if you need to mod the lens before selling it.
I don't believe either that SMC is SMC if you see what I mean (unless Tamron licensed SMC from Pentax that would be funny enough)

If you want to mod an existing design, you take the blue print you do the rest. That was what Pentax and Tokina did.

Nicolas06 · 08-28-2014, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Alizarine

I think this one will be difficult given that it can be a fairly large lens with many elements. The 18-270 rebadge from Tamron could've gotten a DC motor but they opted for SDM; on the other hand the DA 560 f5.6 only has 6 in 5 groups, so maybe that's why it still got a DC motor.

There a 17-70 f/4. It has SDM & quick shift. HD-55-300 WR showed that adding seals and changing coating doesn't require a design change. So we are speaking of starting at 16mm. Likely you could do that while keeping the 17-70 design.

WR would be quite nice on this lens and help differentiate from sigma offering (17-70 f/28-4). I would not really care of pushing 16mm instead of 17... But it would be interresting to increase picture quality a little bit. The 17-70 is good, but not really better than 18-135 on same range.

philbaum · 08-28-2014, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Nicolas06

WR would be quite nice on this lens and help differentiate from sigma offering (17-70 f/28-4). I would not really care of pushing 16mm instead of 17... But it would be interresting to increase picture quality a little bit. The 17-70 is good, but not really better than 18-135 on same range.

I disagree, the DA 17-70 is a much better lens than the 18-135:

Pentax Lens: Zooms - Pentax 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 ED AL [IF] DC SMC DA WR (Tested) - SLRgear.com!

Quote:

Pentax 17-70mm ƒ/4 AL IF SDM SMC DA ~$600
It may not provide the same telephoto reach of the 18-135mm, but it is a much sharper lens, complete with a consistent ƒ/4 aperture across its focal range. It also has its issues with chromatic aberration

They cost about the same price but the rendering and sharpness out of the Pentax version is excellent. Can't speak to the Sigma.

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08-25-2014, 01:50 PM	#841
northcoastgreg Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Northern Michigan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,172	Originally posted by zokes83 HD DA 35/2.4 L HD DA 40/2.8 XS HD DA 50/1.8 L HD DA 50/3.5 Macro L HD DA 85/2.8 L HD DA 18-55/3.5-5.6 DC WR HD DA 18-55/3.5-5.6 DC L HD coatings on kit glass? Nice, but probably unlikely. And adding motors to the 18-55 will only raise its cost. Isn't the whole point of a standard kit zoom to make a semi-decent lens for as low a price as possible?

08-25-2014, 01:53 PM	#842
mee Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7,403	Check your email -- I just got a survey from Ricoh Imaging about Pentax products. Survey covered How often I upgrade camera bodies, where I buy, do I purchase through brick and motar or online stores, and what factors (out of 5 listed) steer me into buying the equipment I buy.. oh and of course age and level of photog experience.

08-25-2014, 02:05 PM	#843
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,032	Got it too : interesting, i will answer for sure @zokes83 : your list is very low profile - that is only 20 years for pentax R&D

08-25-2014, 03:43 PM	#844
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by zokes83 But look at the price of the 85/1.8 in Canon or Nikon mount. 450 € is to much for a budget portrait lens. The Sony SAL 85/2.8 for 230 € is affordable. Until we stick with APSC, 85mm equivalent is 55mm. The budget portrait lens is obviously DA50 f/1.8, very affordable. There also the FA50 f/1.4, still affordable. For something better there DA*55 & DA70. For the best of the best, there FA77. Anyway there an affordable portrait lens with DA50. The problem with a DA plastic wonder 85mm is that it will reduce the sales of DA70 ltd. many that may consider one ltd as the upgrade pass may just prefer a cheaper plastic wonder. That the case for me and the DA35 ltd that is already excelent. I might have considered DA35 ltd or FA35 f/2 if it was not available or maybe FA43 ltd. For Canikon, the idea is simple: if you want basic you get f/1.8 or f/2 maybe. if you go highend you get f/1.4 or maybe even f/1.2. On Pentax where the FA ltd are f/1.8 and DA ltd f/2.4 or f/2.8 only the plastic finishing, lack of hood and quick shift really make the difference. That may not be enough if the price is too affordable on the plastic wonder version

08-25-2014, 04:45 PM	#845
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Nicolas06 On Pentax where the FA ltd are f/1.8 and DA ltd f/2.4 or f/2.8 only the plastic finishing, lack of hood and quick shift really make the difference. That may not be enough if the price is too affordable on the plastic wonder version I can see Pentax ending up with three different 'ranges' of prime lenses. DA - Low end all plastic, fairly fast and good quality but emphasis on cost (28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 135mm) DA* - High end, very fast and best quality, emphasis on fast AF and image quality (24mm, 35mm, 55mm, 85mm, 200mm, 300mm, 400mm Limited - High end, relatively slow but best image quality, emphasis on small size and craftsmanship (15,21,31,35 macro,40,43,70,77,100 macro) Duplicating, or closely duplicating focal lengths does not negate the other features of the line. So a DA* 55mm f/1.4 and a DA 50mm f/1.8 and a Limited 40mm or 43mm can co-exist. Just like the DA 35mm f/2.4, FA 35mm f/2 and DA Limited 35mm f/2.8, they all cover unique niches. Originally posted by Nicolas06 The problem with a DA plastic wonder 85mm is that it will reduce the sales of DA70 ltd. many that may consider one ltd as the upgrade pass may just prefer a cheaper plastic wonder. Maybe, but the DA 70 is for APS-C so a DA 85mm f/2 that covers FF will fit right in. But I do not expect to see these all at once, I think the existing line will all get upgrades first, then 1 maybe 2 new lenses a year for a long time.

08-25-2014, 05:28 PM	#846
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Cheaper, faster, more versatile. I can see a DA 85mm taking a bunch of sales from the DA70. Cheaper than the 77, too, so some sales stealing there, too...

08-25-2014, 10:56 PM	#847
zokes83 New Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Berlin Posts: 11	You're right a 85/2.8 could bring down DA 70/2.4 sales a bit, thats the reason it should not have F2, no quickshift, only plastic, no lenshood for 250 €. I think the more features and buld quality would be worth the double price for a 70/2.4 Ltd. The 50/1.8 is a portraits tele, but with relative short focal length, 85mm on aps-c are also very common too (like 135 mm on FF). But to be honest, there isn't really a lack of lenses is this range. A cheap macro maybe based on the DFA50/2.8 would be nice, like Nikon has with the 40/2.8. The rest on my list are allready on the roadmap or just HD-versions from old designs despite of the DC-Kit-zooms. A wether sealed wide-zoom is a must! Also replacement for the old 16-45 and 17-70 with sealing and DC-motor too. A 135-400 if this comes with that focal range would be a 3-times zoom that could be cheaper or better than the Nikkor 80-400 VR (5x) that costs about 2200 €. Maybee as HD DA AW with metal body like the 560/5.6. Last edited by zokes83; 08-26-2014 at 12:38 AM.

08-28-2014, 02:12 AM - 2 Likes	#848
romeck Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Piekary Śląskie Photos: Albums Posts: 155	Originally posted by Mistral75 Originally posted by monochrome Quote Pentax did it under both owners. Pentax is nothing more than a brand name nowadays, like Lumix (Panasonic) or Alpha (Sony). Originally posted by monochrome Please. We've been over that ground. A company is its traditions and its employees. I don't care who owns it or what the name is, the company is Pentax. I. The company is Asahi Kōgaku Kōgyō G.K. (1919 - 1937) The company is Asahi Optical Co. (1938 - 2002) The company is Pentax Corporation (2002 - 2007) The company is Hoya Pentax HD Corporation (1 October 2007 - 1 July 2011) then as a new company Pentax Imaging Systems Division was sold to Ricoh: "all current products will continue to be sold with the PENTAX brand name under current operations" The company is Pentax Ricoh Imaging Company (1 October 2011 - 31 July 2013) The company is Ricoh Imaging Company, Ltd. (1 August 2013 - at present) but: Pentax Imaging Systems Division still exit ("Ricoh, which is the parent company to Pentax") so II. The Pentax is a brand name of VEB Zeiss Ikon. ( ? - 1954) The Pentax is a brand name of Asahi Optical Corporation. (1954 - 2002) The Pentax is a brand name of Pentax Corporation (2002 - 2007) The Pentax is a brand name of Hoya Corporation (2007 - 2011) The Pentax is a brand name of Pentax Ricoh Imaging (2011 - 2013) The Pentax is a brand name of Ricoh Imaging (2013 - at present) phew...

08-28-2014, 02:40 AM	#849
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Originally posted by zokes83 HD DA 16-70/4 DC WR I think this one will be difficult given that it can be a fairly large lens with many elements. The 18-270 rebadge from Tamron could've gotten a DC motor but they opted for SDM; on the other hand the DA 560 f5.6 only has 6 in 5 groups, so maybe that's why it still got a DC motor.

08-28-2014, 04:55 AM	#850
IchabodCrane Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,728	Originally posted by Alizarine I think this one will be difficult given that it can be a fairly large lens with many elements. The 18-270 rebadge from Tamron could've gotten a DC motor but they opted for SDM; on the other hand the DA 560 f5.6 only has 6 in 5 groups, so maybe that's why it still got a DC motor. The DA 18-135 has 13 elements / 11 groups and yet has a DC motor.

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08-28-2014, 05:59 AM	#851
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Alizarine I think this one will be difficult given that it can be a fairly large lens with many elements. The 18-270 rebadge from Tamron could've gotten a DC motor but they opted for SDM; on the other hand the DA 560 f5.6 only has 6 in 5 groups, so maybe that's why it still got a DC motor. IMO it is much more simple (alas), they just went with what Tamron builds. I'm pretty sure the motors are the Tamron motors. No QuickShift, guess why?

08-28-2014, 06:47 AM	#852
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	Originally posted by IchabodCrane The DA 18-135 has 13 elements / 11 groups and yet has a DC motor. point taken, thanks. That lens is a lot smaller than the 18-270 though. Originally posted by thibs IMO it is much more simple (alas), they just went with what Tamron builds. I'm pretty sure the motors are the Tamron motors. No QuickShift, guess why? You mean the PZD motors on the Tamron version?

08-28-2014, 06:49 AM	#853
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by Alizarine point taken, thanks. That lens is a lot smaller than the 18-270 though. You mean the PZD motors on the Tamron version? yep. Pentax 18-250 didn't have QS either AFAICT. Coincidence? I don't think so. EDIT There's no point in a rebadge if you need to mod the lens before selling it. I don't believe either that SMC is SMC if you see what I mean (unless Tamron licensed SMC from Pentax that would be funny enough) If you want to mod an existing design, you take the blue print you do the rest. That was what Pentax and Tokina did.

08-28-2014, 11:09 AM	#854
Nicolas06 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 4,854	Originally posted by Alizarine I think this one will be difficult given that it can be a fairly large lens with many elements. The 18-270 rebadge from Tamron could've gotten a DC motor but they opted for SDM; on the other hand the DA 560 f5.6 only has 6 in 5 groups, so maybe that's why it still got a DC motor. There a 17-70 f/4. It has SDM & quick shift. HD-55-300 WR showed that adding seals and changing coating doesn't require a design change. So we are speaking of starting at 16mm. Likely you could do that while keeping the 17-70 design. WR would be quite nice on this lens and help differentiate from sigma offering (17-70 f/28-4). I would not really care of pushing 16mm instead of 17... But it would be interresting to increase picture quality a little bit. The 17-70 is good, but not really better than 18-135 on same range.

08-28-2014, 11:34 AM	#855
philbaum Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Port Townsend, Washington State, USA Posts: 3,659	Originally posted by Nicolas06 WR would be quite nice on this lens and help differentiate from sigma offering (17-70 f/28-4). I would not really care of pushing 16mm instead of 17... But it would be interresting to increase picture quality a little bit. The 17-70 is good, but not really better than 18-135 on same range. I disagree, the DA 17-70 is a much better lens than the 18-135: Pentax Lens: Zooms - Pentax 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 ED AL [IF] DC SMC DA WR (Tested) - SLRgear.com! Quote: Pentax 17-70mm ƒ/4 AL IF SDM SMC DA ~$600 It may not provide the same telephoto reach of the 18-135mm, but it is a much sharper lens, complete with a consistent ƒ/4 aperture across its focal range. It also has its issues with chromatic aberration They cost about the same price but the rendering and sharpness out of the Pentax version is excellent. Can't speak to the Sigma.