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07-28-2014, 03:37 AM   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
12 Mega pixel sensor makes D300s actually competing (and loosing in high ISOs) with K-x, as far as IQ is concerned.


May i contest or at least challenge : what are your criteria for "pro grade" ?
+ does it concern a single camera, a complete system, or a customer service for example ?
Or both the two last items ?
Pro grade system consist from body (let say K3), pro grade lenses, advanced flash system, other accessories and pro grade customer servis. All should work as one. And Pentax is not. At this moment is hard to pronounce one Pentax lense that is really pro grade lens.

07-28-2014, 03:42 AM   #152
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Da* 55mm F1.4 is about the level of the Canon 50mm F1.2 offering better build, better wr and a slightly longer FL while tracing behind in speed (slightly smaller aperture an slower Af).

The 300\4 from the other makers are in their pro segment and the DA is one of the better ones.

Da* 200\2.8 would be in the pro segment at Canikon too.

Fa 31/1.8 is of pro quality although a bit slow to make it smaller.

The Da* 60-250 could arguably count as pro as it actually provide more to the table than the standard pro segment 70-200/4 others stock. The fact that it's not a complete ff lens may bump it down.

The whole 645 segment is pro.

To say that Pentax got no Pro quality lenses compared to what other makers stocks as pro is plain wrong.

---------- Post added 07-28-14 at 12:49 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by dfujevec Quote
Pro grade system consist from body (let say K3), pro grade lenses, advanced flash system, other accessories and pro grade customer servis. All should work as one. And Pentax is not. At this moment is hard to pronounce one Pentax lense that is really pro grade lens.
The most lacking lens areas are wide and fast lenses, long lenses with huge apertures and speedy sports zooms.
Though nothing in the lens segment is as lacking as the flash system, tethering and pro services.
07-28-2014, 04:10 AM   #153
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We are talking about system, not just about single lenses. But OK, let's start with lenses. Every pro grade system of lenses should have fast wide angle zoom, standard zoom, tele zoom that are true battleships. If we speak about aps-c system (since Pentax do not have FF system), we need 10-12 to 24mm lens that are pro grade (and we fail there), we need 16-17 to 50-55mm lens and we fail again (SDM in 16-50mm is to slow and unreliable), we need tele zoom 50-70mm to 135-150mm and we fail for third time (same story as with 16-50). Then we need couple fast prime lenses, one wide angle, one standard, and one or two tele, and we have 55mm f1,4 (but again SDM problem). We dont have 16 or 23mm fast lens, we dont have standard lens that is pro grade (with WR and with fast AF). Canon and Nikon have for decades AF motors that are silent, fast and reliable. Pentax in 2014 is not capable to do that. Most of the lenses are screw driven (this is at least reliable), those who are SDM are usually too slow and prone to failure. Maybe DC motors are good, but we have just one or two lenses that have DC motor. In short we are quite far from pro grade lens system that will make Pentax K3 pro grade camera.
07-28-2014, 04:26 AM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by dfujevec Quote
We are talking about system, not just about single lenses. But OK, let's start with lenses. Every pro grade system of lenses should have fast wide angle zoom, standard zoom, tele zoom that are true battleships. If we speak about aps-c system (since Pentax do not have FF system), we need 10-12 to 24mm lens that are pro grade (and we fail there), we need 16-17 to 50-55mm lens and we fail again (SDM in 16-50mm is to slow and unreliable), we need tele zoom 50-70mm to 135-150mm and we fail for third time (same story as with 16-50). Then we need couple fast prime lenses, one wide angle, one standard, and one or two tele, and we have 55mm f1,4 (but again SDM problem). We dont have 16 or 23mm fast lens, we dont have standard lens that is pro grade (with WR and with fast AF). Canon and Nikon have for decades AF motors that are silent, fast and reliable. Pentax in 2014 is not capable to do that. Most of the lenses are screw driven (this is at least reliable), those who are SDM are usually too slow and prone to failure. Maybe DC motors are good, but we have just one or two lenses that have DC motor. In short we are quite far from pro grade lens system that will make Pentax K3 pro grade camera.


Stop it, that's too much reality in a much to short amount of time.

You haven't even touched the K-3 body yet. 100% of the Pentax cameras that I own have broken down. (IstD, Pentax K-5 and K-3) The mirror assembly of hte IstD let loose on one end and damaged the sensor. Both K-5 and K-3 had to be shipped to the repair center due to mirror flapping. Of which only one returned. The K-5 got lost. I have to wonder about all the other Pentax bodies that I've bought, maybe I just got rid of them to quickly to have them break down on me?

I wonder if the Prestige will still have the mirror flapping. We can call it the "Prrrrrrrrrrrestige".

07-28-2014, 04:51 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by goubejp Quote
I agree; unfortunately pro grade lenses have all been discontinued - I mean, Fa*600, FA*300f2.8, A*400f2.8, FA*200 macro... all are available on second hand market only.
To be honest you speak of a niche market of very wide apperture, very long lenses that only get use in some sport and wildlife scouting. Only a few will be able to live of this activity. While rich enthousiasts can justify the cost, many pro have no use for theses lenses and would not be able to justify the cost to their employer or to themselves.

I see more 18-36, 24-70, 70-200, 35, 50, 85 & 135 lenses to be bread and butter for pro than the exotics things you described.

There is all of this in the Pentax system (or their APSC equivalent).
07-28-2014, 05:34 AM - 1 Like   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
100% of the Pentax cameras that I own have broken down
Canon 5D notoriously had it's mirror falling off problems, Canon 1DIII had AF mirror alignment problems, some Canon 1Dx's were recalled for defective mirror boxes, almost all Nikon D600's had oil spray, D800 had AF sensor issues etc etc. You could have bought a whole family of even pro grade Canon's or Nikons and had problems right along the way too. Complex precision machinery having problems is not news, even if it's made in Japan. I'm not sure the Pentax defects story is any worse (or better) than it's peers.
07-28-2014, 05:40 AM   #157
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Now you are just trying hard to be negative, lenses like the DA55 is reliable enough to be with Canons good lenses. Check lensrentals and similar and you will find loads of broken Canikon pro lenses and cameras in the stats.
07-28-2014, 05:59 AM   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Canon 5D notoriously had it's mirror falling off problems, Canon 1DIII had AF mirror alignment problems, some Canon 1Dx's were recalled for defective mirror boxes, almost all Nikon D600's had oil spray, D800 had AF sensor issues etc etc. You could have bought a whole family of even pro grade Canon's or Nikons and had problems right along the way too. Complex precision machinery having problems is not news, even if it's made in Japan. I'm not sure the Pentax defects story is any worse (or better) than it's peers.
True... But when I sent in the 5D that I once owned, it actually came back repaired! Now that's pro-service. I'm still waiting for the K-5 that I sent in somewhere in 2011.

And all the problems with the other brands you describe were actually dealt with, not left to stick around for several camerabodies spread over several years. The mirror flapping issue persists from the K-5 and is still around with the K-3. It seems they're unable to solve it.

I think someone at Pentax is very wise and forbids them to work on any FF DSLR before they get the mirror flapping issue sorted out.

07-28-2014, 06:18 AM   #159
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It's rather silly to try to define what is a "pro" lens or a "pro" camera. The term is meaningless to me, at least. And out of dozens of Pentax bodies I have owned and used throughout the years, not one (that's 0%) has broken down on me. Not once, not ever. I guess I must be lucky (but I suspect that I'm more typical than some would have you believe). And as for lenses, I have quite a few top Nikon optics, and I do not find my Pentax lenses lagging behind them. In fact, some are better than the Nikons optically, though it must be said, the Nikons by and large tend to focus more quickly, but alas, not more accurately. Oh, and the only lens so far that has had a broken motor was a Nikon 17-35mm f2.8. I suspect that was a "pro" lens, whatever that means!
07-28-2014, 06:21 AM   #160
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
True... But when I sent in the 5D that I once owned, it actually came back repaired! Now that's pro-service. I'm still waiting for the K-5 that I sent in somewhere in 2011.
Here in Sweden Pentax (also handles Tamron, Samsung, Metz, Samyang etc) got a very quick and good (expanding) repair center that actually answers questions before, under and after service. They aim for a 3 day repair time from that they get the camera and so far they have been successful for both me and my brother. Nikon on the other hand have atleast a three weeks for a consumer repair and Canon is relocating their repair service as their biggest one went bankrupt. You need some geographical luck I guess.

---------- Post added 07-28-14 at 03:44 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
It's rather silly to try to define what is a "pro" lens or a "pro" camera. The term is meaningless to me, at least. And out of dozens of Pentax bodies I have owned and used throughout the years, not one (that's 0%) has broken down on me. Not once, not ever. I guess I must be lucky (but I suspect that I'm more typical than some would have you believe). And as for lenses, I have quite a few top Nikon optics, and I do not find my Pentax lenses lagging behind them. In fact, some are better than the Nikons optically, though it must be said, the Nikons by and large tend to focus more quickly, but alas, not more accurately. Oh, and the only lens so far that has had a broken motor was a Nikon 17-35mm f2.8. I suspect that was a "pro" lens, whatever that means!
That is why I compared with lenses that the other makers calls "pro" to have ballpark to compare in.
07-28-2014, 07:02 AM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by dfujevec Quote
We are talking about system, not just about single lenses. But OK, let's start with lenses. Every pro grade system of lenses should have fast wide angle zoom, standard zoom, tele zoom that are true battleships. .
Perhaps Pentax is for pros who prefer other types of lenses?
07-28-2014, 08:46 AM   #162
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There are pros that take crappy Pictures........Even with pro gear.......
07-28-2014, 09:21 AM   #163
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It's funny how "pros" back in 1999-2006 got by fine with the Canon 1D, 1D mkii, 1Ds, Nikon D1, D1x, D2x (all defined as "pro" cameras), and the K3 is "not pro" but beats these old cameras in almost every way. The only thing I think can really be defined as "pro" are the end results of someone's work.
07-28-2014, 09:31 AM   #164
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Broadly speaking, I would class a professional as someone who relied on photography for a living. Whatever gear they choose is up to them, but you can bet they will put a lot of thought into what cameras, etc, they need to get the job done reliably time after time. If you need an array of long, fast lenses, then it's likely you will go with Nikon or Canon. For studio work, location shots, travel or landscape, the choice is much wider.
07-28-2014, 09:50 AM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by stillshot2 Quote
It's funny how "pros" back in 1999-2006 got by fine with the Canon 1D, 1D mkii, 1Ds, Nikon D1, D1x, D2x (all defined as "pro" cameras), and the K3 is "not pro" but beats these old cameras in almost every way. The only thing I think can really be defined as "pro" are the end results of someone's work.
In 1900 pinhole camera was pro grade camera
All those cameras that you mentioned had support of a system. Even today those cameras with CaNikon support can still be pro.
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