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07-29-2014, 07:28 AM   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Just leave.
LOL.

Clavius still doesn't understand that all camera brands have glitches and problems, and that we don't live in a perfect world. I saw problems with Sony DSLRs that I used to own too, my a55 would glitch every so often and was known for an overheating problem. What did I do when it glitched or overheated? Worked around it! Pulled battery, reset it, etc. Besides, it sounds like this mirror flapping happens very rarely. Is it that bad that you can't just quickly pull the battery, put it back in, and keep shooting? I would rather do that than try to figure out how to get oil off my sensor.

07-29-2014, 07:36 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by stillshot2 Quote
LOL.

Clavius still doesn't understand that all camera brands have glitches and problems, and that we don't live in a perfect world. I saw problems with Sony DSLRs that I used to own too, my a55 would glitch every so often and was known for an overheating problem. What did I do when it glitched or overheated? Worked around it! Pulled battery, reset it, etc. Besides, it sounds like this mirror flapping happens very rarely. Is it that bad that you can't just quickly pull the battery, put it back in, and keep shooting? I would rather do that than try to figure out how to get oil off my sensor.
At some point, if I had that long a run of unsatisfactory products, I would simply change brands. There's nothing wrong with that - it is logical and proper.

Whatever it is there's someting else going on here.
07-29-2014, 07:40 AM   #198
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
This one for me is a valid argument but it has to be really good; Amazon will deliver to you the next working day while you should have some spare gear to cover the time in between. So the price you pay for it should be low (less than the cost of replacing gear earlier than foreseen and potentially resell the repeared one on used market) and the service should be available on non working hours/day and sent it to you in less than 24 hours.

Is it the case?
I'm three days away for Amazon. If I'm doing a shoot in Malaysia, how far away is Amazon? Or I'm at the Russian Olympics. Etc.

I'm certain that if I was in New York or other large center, and had a relationship with B&H or other large well established retailer, they would deliver a couple 645Z and lenses if I was doing a shoot and someone cleaned out my truck.
07-29-2014, 08:03 AM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by stillshot2 Quote
LOL.

Clavius still doesn't understand that all camera brands have glitches and problems, and that we don't live in a perfect world.
No, I understand that perfectly well. People who work make errors. Man made machines are not perfect. Will always remain the case. But what's important is how companies respond to those errors. Clearly Pentax chose to just absorb the damage done by keeping the flapping mirrors in their cameras for a full lustrum, instead of investing in a solution.

07-29-2014, 08:10 AM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
No, I understand that perfectly well. People who work make errors. Man made machines are not perfect. Will always remain the case. But what's important is how companies respond to those errors. Clearly Pentax chose to just absorb the damage done by keeping the flapping mirrors in their cameras for a full lustrum, instead of investing in a solution.
Is it indeed a hardware problem or a software problem? I imagine nearly all camera brands are using the same hardware sourced from the same place, so to me it seems that it would be a software issue Pentax still hasn't solved. I could be wrong though.
07-29-2014, 08:11 AM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Just leave.
no he shouldn't, who would all the Pentax is doomed treads filled?
07-29-2014, 11:39 AM   #202
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I'd say, "just leave it"
07-29-2014, 12:02 PM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I'll take your word about the different causes. What does it matter? I don't know what's more sad, caused by the same error, or caused by various types of errors? My K-5 flapped. My K-3 flapped. And as you say, some K-50's were flapping. I, as a customer, can't and shouldn't be bothered with why or how. Whatever the excuse is, I see that mirrors are flapping franticly and they can't seem to solve it. Point is, there is one general deficiency that's allowing problems like the flapping, sensor stains, buttons falling off, freezing, SDM issues, etc to reach the customer: Lacking QC. Pay & pray was to be expected when they were still known as "cheap", but not now anymore.
...only knows one song. I just wish it was sung a little more on-key and with consistent rhythm.


Steve

---------- Post added 07-29-14 at 12:11 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Clearly Pentax chose to just absorb the damage
Time to clean your glasses Clavius. You are not seeing very clearly. Question:
  • Did Pentax repair your K-5? (the only model having the mirror flap issue as originally described)
  • Did you get replacement/repair of your K-3? (assuming you tried)
  • Can you point me to a post where a K-50 is flapping (the thread on this site is mis-named)?
  • Why are your posting your rant here? This is not a Pentax quality, Pentax is doomed, or mirror flap thread.
  • Why the hell didn't you buy a D600 so you could experience a truly unresponsive maker?


Steve


Last edited by stevebrot; 07-29-2014 at 12:39 PM.
07-29-2014, 02:44 PM   #204
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On a more related topic, it looks like the Prestige Edition is selling well:

Ricoh Imaging - PENTAX K-3 Prestige Edition hits pre-order limit | AkihabaraNews

More money in the coffers for development of new and exciting toys!
07-29-2014, 03:11 PM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
I'm three days away for Amazon. If I'm doing a shoot in Malaysia, how far away is Amazon? Or I'm at the Russian Olympics. Etc.

I'm certain that if I was in New York or other large center, and had a relationship with B&H or other large well established retailer, they would deliver a couple 645Z and lenses if I was doing a shoot and someone cleaned out my truck.
I'am challenging the fact that if you are doing a shooting in middle of nowhere the pro service will deliver you instantly anyway... In theses cases either it you that move or they will ask for big money and you'll have to wait. Maybe at least 1-2 days. Try to ask the service when you cover Irak or Ukraine, just to see... Or simpler when you do something in Tibet or in some Autralian desert. You might be disapointed.

For the Olympics,I'am sure thoses guys come with the spare material in case of. This is too critical to rely on a "pro" service as 1 hour waiting is already a huge problem that cost you lot of money. If the thing fail while you shoot, you take a new one... And because you don't have one shoot but a team of maybe 15 shooters to get all good shooting positions, they don't care in fact.
07-29-2014, 05:14 PM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I'll take your word about the different causes. What does it matter? I don't know what's more sad, caused by the same error, or caused by various types of errors? My K-5 flapped. My K-3 flapped. And as you say, some K-50's were flapping. I, as a customer, can't and shouldn't be bothered with why or how. Whatever the excuse is, I see that mirrors are flapping franticly and they can't seem to solve it. Point is, there is one general deficiency that's allowing problems like the flapping, sensor stains, buttons falling off, freezing, SDM issues, etc to reach the customer: Lacking QC. Pay & pray was to be expected when they were still known as "cheap", but not now anymore.
I think you would be happier switching to one of the brands that have no flaws.



(BTW, please report back when you find out which brands those are so we can all make the switch. )
07-29-2014, 05:16 PM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I think you would be happier switching to one of the brands that have no flaws.



(BTW, please report back when you find out which brands those are so we can all make the switch. )

Contax.
07-29-2014, 05:42 PM   #208
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I think you would be happier switching to one of the brands that have no flaws.



(BTW, please report back when you find out which brands those are so we can all make the switch. )
No, I think he wants one of these amazing, flawless machines:

07-29-2014, 05:42 PM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I think you would be happier switching to one of the brands that have no flaws.



(BTW, please report back when you find out which brands those are so we can all make the switch. )

You're missing his point.. he isn't looking for a perfect brand. But rather this particular brand to sort out it's seemingly recurring issues..
07-29-2014, 05:47 PM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nicolas06 Quote
I'am challenging the fact that if you are doing a shooting in middle of nowhere the pro service will deliver you instantly anyway... In theses cases either it you that move or they will ask for big money and you'll have to wait. Maybe at least 1-2 days. Try to ask the service when you cover Irak or Ukraine, just to see... Or simpler when you do something in Tibet or in some Autralian desert. You might be disapointed.

For the Olympics,I'am sure thoses guys come with the spare material in case of. This is too critical to rely on a "pro" service as 1 hour waiting is already a huge problem that cost you lot of money. If the thing fail while you shoot, you take a new one... And because you don't have one shoot but a team of maybe 15 shooters to get all good shooting positions, they don't care in fact.
I'm a professional (not in the legal sense) in my field, I and my customers require overnight service. My suppliers are geared to provide that level of service. Of course I pay for it, my customers do, but the alternative is far more expensive.

I purchased a tool bag, expensive but geared to what I do. It came with a 5 year warranty. One of the fasteners failed. I called the company, they had a new bag to me as fast as it could be shipped, two days, with a box to ship it back prepaid.

If I was doing photography for a living, of course I would make sure that I had adequate backup, but I would expect similar service from the vendors that I deal with. It may be that there are some retailers that could satisfy my needs, not sure. I'm not in that business. But the demands are real and reasonable. I wouldn't expect this level of service for nothing; I would expect to pay for it. I would need to have a contact that I could call that would go to the end of the earth to get what I need.

I'm certain that in some markets Pentax is providing that level of service either directly or through arrangements with retailers.
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