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View Poll Results: Does your K20D have hot pixels
No 8388.30%
Yes 1111.70%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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05-09-2008, 06:10 AM   #16
ogl
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Add K200D. They said the same about K200D.
It's funny.

05-09-2008, 07:47 AM   #17
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Ken,

I wholeheartedly agree with you that if there is an issue with a camera or lens that we should discuss it, whether it is the less than stellar performance of Pentax AF or CA in some Tamron lenses….absolutely, lets discuss and be informed.

Lets no run off with posts of “Emerging Issue” when it is only two people.

Some people are “Glass half full” and others are “glass half empty”

One thing I do know is “mob mentality“, even the most reserved of people in a mob environment can get carried away.

A perfect example is ask any Canon or Nikon guy what he thinks of Pentax. Half of them will have never even handled one but will say that the AF is bad. No! AF is not bad it is excellent in good light, in low light it slows down…yes. But bad…No!

Once the common Mob Mentality of “Pentax AF is bad” starts, no matter what we do we will still face the uninformed.

Yeah sure, during testing of a camera, I will admit that some tests will be more extreme than the average person will encounter whilst taking photos. But can you imagine if when LV is used some people got some HP, suddenly the wonderful Samsung 14.6mp CMOS sensor is “Oh that’s crap is has Hot pixel issues, here, check out this new Canon camera”.

The sensor is fine. We have all seen the pictures with it. I have used LV heaps of times whilst playing around with manual focus lenses and so forth and I can guarantee 99% of Pentax users have tried all the little bells and whistles on their new K20Ds, including LV.

Have we seen ANY posts form our thousands of users around the world? No!

Just two people, two reviewers, have made comment and suddenly it is an “Emerging Issue”, suddenly the mob gathers and soon we will be defending our K20Ds against uninformed people over something that 2 people have started.

The VPN one was also an issue for some, a small some that pushed their camera’s abilities. You will find heaps of threads on VPN on the K10D, the average person will never encounter it… EVER

I would hate to see the K20D tarnished over a spurious comment by a reviewer that no-one else has encountered.

Yes let us wait and see under what conditions these apparently occur and lets wait and see if it is an issue before we all start rounding up the mob to lynch the Samsung CMOS sensor is al I am saying.

For those who know my normal posts, you can tell I have had a crap week, sorry.


The tally stands at 3 users with Hot Pixels. For those with this, can someone post a picture so we can see what is the "Issue!" Please.

PK

Addendum:

I did some testing.

Live View 30 mins wandering about shooting different things and then went pixel peeping, not my favoutire pastime.

WoW! 2 Hot Pixels out of 14.6 MILLION, one permanent and one that appears after about 5 mins of live view.

Ran Pixel mapping in camera. Run the test again Live View including lens cap on shots as well just for fun at ISO 800, ISO 100 and ISO 1600. NOTHING!!!!!

Seriously, Whatever cameras they have for testing have to have a fault and not a common one as you cannot help but see those dots all over the images on the polish site. Looks like metal flake paintwork.


Last edited by Peacekeeper; 05-09-2008 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Addendum
05-09-2008, 04:06 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peacekeeper Quote
Lets no run off with posts of “Emerging Issue” when it is only two people.
Hi Peacekeeper. It was me choosing the title.

I agree I could have been a bit more cautious. I will take this into account the next time.

Maybe a question for you as a native speaker: What title (or title prefix) would you have choosen, expressing that not me (the OP) has the problem, but review sites in the web had reported about it.

BTW, I think my post was pretty balanced and it wasn't me who then started a poll about all this
05-09-2008, 10:00 PM   #19
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Falconeye,

Strangely enough I consider the views of the reviewers over at DP Review not the most balanced and fair and very biased towards Nikon and Canon.

I would have been tempted to say nothing and wait til the review came out, but if I was to post in reply to that, my own bias towards them and their new post it would have been "DPR are trying hard to find things wrong with the K20D"

Simply stating a neutral point regarding the alleged issue, not agreeing with them not denying it, not supporting their POV like RH did in his post and polish it up to make it look more concrete with comments like "..and the issues continue"

I was hoping with this poll to put this matter to bed so to speak. As it stands now the only photos of these hot pixels on the net are from the Polish website.

4 people have reported hot pixels on this poll, but no-one has posted an image of what their issue is. Are they saying they have 3 or 4 Hot Pixels or are they saying they have hundreds as described in the polish review or alledged by DPR.

To be fair, if people had hot pixel issues to the same level as is being alluded to by DPR and the Polish website, surely by now we would have heard about it.

Some of those images are so full of hot pixels I am not sure if it is not a double exposure of a night sky hehehe

05-10-2008, 04:46 AM   #20
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I have hot and cold pixels

Literally I have hundreds - hot pixels when I'm shooting negatives and cold ones with slides (never seem to be able to quite rid all that dust before scanning them!)

A few hot pixels is a non-issue. I suppose if you're getting thousands then that's a different matter.

Dunc

QuoteOriginally posted by Peacekeeper Quote

4 people have reported hot pixels on this poll, but no-one has posted an image of what their issue is. Are they saying they have 3 or 4 Hot Pixels or are they saying they have hundreds as described in the polish review or alledged by DPR.
05-10-2008, 05:24 AM   #21
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Very interesting why those 4 people who claimed they have hot pixel issue hav not posted any examples with untouched EXIF?
05-10-2008, 01:06 PM   #22
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Yes I do. I buy it at the local Indian Food Store. I actually used some Indian "Hot Pixel" Sauce on my Pizza last night and had to spend most of the night on the toilet or my "Throne"...

Use sparingly...

Ben

Last edited by benjikan; 05-19-2008 at 12:18 AM.
05-18-2008, 05:47 PM   #23
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Yup, got a bunch. But, they don't bother me none because I shoot RAW+ and any image that I want to print or send to someone, I process from the RAW which maps them out.

05-19-2008, 05:22 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
Yes I do. I buy it at the local Indian Food Store. I actually used some Indian "Hot Pixel" Sauce on my Pizza last night and had to spend most of the night on the toilet or my "Throne"...

Use sparingly...

Ben
So that's the reason!

So will the official explanation be that the night shift operatives on the Samsung sensor fabrication line bring in "Hot Pixel" sauce for their midnight snacks and some splashes over the sensors destined for review samples!
05-19-2008, 06:42 AM   #25
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Not a DPreview defender by any mean but it is funny to see how Canon users thinks that DPreview is anti-Canon and pro-Nikon. I also remember to read several things like that on Olympus, Sony and Nikon when I was researching to get my first dslr. I think that they are victims of the monster they created. Link themselves to amazon didnt help neither. If I am not wrong, the original thread from Dpreview about hot pixels was started when they tried to calm down the increasing anxiety of the people that thought that Pentax was being neglected cos the new cameras were not reviewed yet. As always happens in those forums, that was the trigger for some people to start a snowball. I wonder who holds the guilt.
05-19-2008, 08:32 AM   #26
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They could have simply said "We are testing the K20D now and the review will be out when we are finished" A neutral statement, rather than teasing everyone with innuendo about a possible problem and everyone get anxious for no real reason.

In my career I have issued many press releases and given many TV interviews on national Television. I have learnt the hard way. Stick to the facts and only the facts. Do not validate specualtion until you have ALL the facts.

Nothing more embarrassing than having to issue a retraction or apologise publicly.

PK
05-19-2008, 12:07 PM   #27
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Short version:

Yes, I have a very few hot pixels, but they don't move around, and I mapped them out. They were ABSOLUTELY visible in JPEGs straight from the camera, and I have posted some of them over here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/244423-post77.html

If you mouse over the picture you can look at the Photo Info, which contains EXIF data.

A lot of people say the in-camera JPEG engine gets rid of hot pixels, but my experience is to the contrary.

All of that having been said, I LOVE my K20D and wouldn't part with it! Expecially since it was so easy to map the hot pixels out.
05-19-2008, 07:27 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quicksand Quote
Short version:

Yes, I have a very few hot pixels, but they don't move around, and I mapped them out. They were ABSOLUTELY visible in JPEGs straight from the camera, and I have posted some of them over here:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/244423-post77.html

If you mouse over the picture you can look at the Photo Info, which contains EXIF data.

A lot of people say the in-camera JPEG engine gets rid of hot pixels, but my experience is to the contrary.

All of that having been said, I LOVE my K20D and wouldn't part with it! Expecially since it was so easy to map the hot pixels out.
I remember having hot pixels show up in my JPEG's from the K10D and the K100D I had. When I went to shooting all RAW they went away... almost like magic! I guess there could be hot pixels that would show up in my K20D, but I wouldn't know since I haven't shot JPEGs with it. Every camera has hot pixles... it's a fact of digital life. If a camera maker maps them out then all the better! RAW shooters don't have this problem... or many many others JPEG only guys have. Shooting RAW makes life happy. Can't imagine going back.
05-19-2008, 10:41 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by regken Quote
I'm certainly not going to flame you but express a different point of view. Forums like this offer us an opportunity to participate in the sort of discussion that goes on at a well run company when analyzing a product. The golden rule at that sort of meeting is absolute openness and honesty. You don't know where you stand unless all the warts are revealed.

We as a group of owners of Pentax gear should look at this as an opportunity to share information, good and bad, so we can make more informed decisions. Both fanboys and antagonists are a detriment to that end. All products have limitations. If we are aware of them a more intelligent buying decision can be made. The 16-50 lens is a good example. Once you know all the possible problems and you still decide to buy you have nothing to complain about when or if those known problems surface.

If there are hot pixels when using LV and pushing the exposure 3 stops 99.9% of us would say so what. That might be the limitations of the sensor and we should be aware of it. I finally got an example of VPN with my K10D after some 7,000 photos and was able to say so that's what it looks like and this is how far I can push it before it becomes a problem.

To borrow a phrase from my least favorite news source, "Fair and balanced", posts in regards to equipment do more for us than the ones with an agenda.

Regards,

Ken
I couldn't agree more, Ken, except that this is fine *if* the reviewers at DPR apply the *same* fair and unbiased attitudes and opinions that we desire of we Pentax users.
It seems to me that some "issues" with Canon and Nikon cameras are glossed over as minor complaints whereas with a Pentax they become major issues and worthy of depreciating it's recommendation in some way.
A case in point is the "highly recommended(just)" statement of the K10D and their insistance that the jpegs were "soft", where the K10D then went on to win nearly every camera award for 2007. Hmmm.
So, is the hot pixel issue such a big thing? No, I don't think it is and nor do I think anyone else thinks it is as it has to happen under rather extreme circumstances, which are warned about in the Pentax manual, but why does DPR make such a big issue out of it when it will affect almost no-one? Are they *trying* to find some fault?
05-20-2008, 12:37 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote

I got no pixels whatsoever
You wanta buy some ??
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