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08-08-2014, 01:16 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Huh? Upthread you said Ricoh is hamstrung by a 62 year old marketing guy. Now you're saying they're pretty sharp operators. Are you agreeing or disagreeing? FWIW, the made-to-order colors for the Q-S1 seems pretty scaled back, if you ask me.

Oh THWI. boriscleto Again.

The marketing guy has a 17 year old teenage daughter who treats everything as a fashion accessory. That is Japan. But wireless is what Japan Teleco does, right? Over respect across biz boundaries.

I am not so sure the build to order model is working so well. At
My local store they can do it, but have only done so once in 2 years.

08-08-2014, 11:23 PM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
I can't imagine that Pentax would produce a FF DSLRs with DSLRs still in a decline (comparing June 2012 to June 2013 to June 2014)
QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Sure, Nikon and Canon may be maintaining revenue by selling higher priced DSLRs, even with lower unit numbers, but thats still a change in the marketplace regarding which customers are buying.
Why can't Pentax "sell a higher-priced DSLR" just like Canikon can?

In particular, if Pentax gave people something unique (like a hybrid viewfinder), a lot of current APS-C shooters would upgrade to an FF with a potentially higher margin and that would translate into revenue for Pentax.

What's the alternative to an FF model?
Continue to do irrelevant (paint updates) or status-quo (K-3 II with changes no one will be writing home about) updates and disappear into oblivion as DSLR maker?
08-09-2014, 03:01 AM   #63
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Just came back from 12 days in Ireland.
People there with visible camera (obviously discounting smartphones) have 95% of the time the same thing: DSLR.
Than a couple mirrorless and compact lost in the mass. Almost only DSLRs, low end Canon and Nikon but DSLR.
08-09-2014, 04:49 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Just came back from 12 days in Ireland.
People there with visible camera (obviously discounting smartphones) have 95% of the time the same thing: DSLR.
Than a couple mirrorless and compact lost in the mass. Almost only DSLRs, low end Canon and Nikon but DSLR.
Are most of the people with SLRs walking around with the hood attached backward? I just came back from China. I think I saw only one other person using her hood--and it just so happened she was a Pentax user. Whenever I see someone with an DSLR with the hood in storage position on a bright sunny day, I think "Money, wasted." Does that make me a bad person?

08-09-2014, 04:54 AM   #65
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I think it's true that people don't easily upgrade their cameras. I for one wouldn't have shifted if Olympus didn't kill the 4/3 system. Now I have a K-5II and I am willing to invest more into my new system when I have the money. My opinion of growth in the DSLR system is growing into the system. Meaning, I will stay in the system buying lenses and cameras that will work together without compromise or adapters. As long as Pentax will keep the K-mount alive it wouldn't matter if my upgrade path will be a MILC or another DSLR.
08-09-2014, 05:37 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Why can't Pentax "sell a higher-priced DSLR" just like Canikon can?
They can. Fuji didn't make an interchangeable lens camera for over 5 years. The first on the rolled out was the X-Pro and its been a very successful body. The key is for Pentax to produce excellent glass. They need to return to the FA Limited level of quality.

I think Pentax needs to keep the K-3 level of quality in APS-C and add that to a FF body. Pentax has to improve their AF lens motors if they want to compete with the AF speed. without the AF speed they can't compete with the D4 line. I hope the first Pentax FF is a D810/5DIII competitor with the better build quality of the K-3.
08-09-2014, 05:43 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I think Pentax needs to keep the K-3 level of quality in APS-C and add that to a FF body. Pentax has to improve their AF lens motors if they want to compete with the AF speed. without the AF speed they can't compete with the D4 line. I hope the first Pentax FF is a D810/5DIII competitor with the better build quality of the K-3.
(Me too)

Last edited by monochrome; 08-09-2014 at 06:00 AM.
08-09-2014, 06:18 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Why can't Pentax "sell a higher-priced DSLR" just like Canikon can?
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
They can. Fuji didn't make an interchangeable lens camera for over 5 years. The first on the rolled out was the X-Pro and its been a very successful body. The key is for Pentax to produce excellent glass. They need to return to the FA Limited level of quality.

I think Pentax needs to keep the K-3 level of quality in APS-C and add that to a FF body. Pentax has to improve their AF lens motors if they want to compete with the AF speed. without the AF speed they can't compete with the D4 line. I hope the first Pentax FF is a D810/5DIII competitor with the better build quality of the K-3.
I guess it is al about having a productionline that can set up and be profatable for the Full Frame Camera. If they can manage to run a production of 2500-4000 units each month and sell them with profit, we will see the camera. That is only aiming at a 5 % marketshare in Full Frame. If they canīt sell those on a profit for a three to four year run then you better leave the market. Fuji is making great cameraīs and not making a profit on them.

08-09-2014, 06:44 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Why can't Pentax "sell a higher-priced DSLR" just like Canikon can?

In particular, if Pentax gave people something unique (like a hybrid viewfinder), a lot of current APS-C shooters would upgrade to an FF with a potentially higher margin and that would translate into revenue for Pentax.

What's the alternative to an FF model?
Continue to do irrelevant (paint updates) or status-quo (K-3 II with changes no one will be writing home about) updates and disappear into oblivion as DSLR maker?
It's not the FF camera body that is the problem. It is the lens array. They only have so much production capacity.

Hybrid VFs are perhaps not as useful as some think. The overlay may be extremely expensive and bulky and a power drain.Many may not like a hybrid so it would still require the current configuration of an LED readout below the VF in addition.

---------- Post added 08-09-14 at 10:47 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Just came back from 12 days in Ireland.
People there with visible camera (obviously discounting smartphones) have 95% of the time the same thing: DSLR.
Than a couple mirrorless and compact lost in the mass. Almost only DSLRs, low end Canon and Nikon but DSLR.
I agree. I work right next to a cruise ship terminal and spend my lunches watching thousands of tourists. Bridge cameras are more common that many think, especially amongst older tourists. Smarpthones are very common across all age groups but trending younger. Tons of lower-end APS-C DSLRs. Few mirrorless and those I see are mostly lower-end Olympus and Sony.

---------- Post added 08-09-14 at 10:49 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
They can. Fuji didn't make an interchangeable lens camera for over 5 years. The first on the rolled out was the X-Pro and its been a very successful body. The key is for Pentax to produce excellent glass. They need to return to the FA Limited level of quality.

I think Pentax needs to keep the K-3 level of quality in APS-C and add that to a FF body. Pentax has to improve their AF lens motors if they want to compete with the AF speed. without the AF speed they can't compete with the D4 line. I hope the first Pentax FF is a D810/5DIII competitor with the better build quality of the K-3.
Successful but Fuji is still losing money. Critical success and financial success are two different things ad Fuji is not seeing huge sales from their very expensive x-series. Lots of forum and review site chatter, but the sales are still bound by high price points.

The rumoured new Nikon FF with a very lightweight body is interesting because FF DSLRs are monsters. I hauled a D700 around for awhile and I will not do that again.
08-09-2014, 06:55 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The rumoured new Nikon FF with a very lightweight body is interesting because FF DSLRs are monsters. I hauled a D700 around for awhile and I will not do that again.
I also think that this is the niche for Pentax to enter. A body as big as the K-3 and not millimeter extra. So it used the same grip D-BG5. So the puzzle is to put the Full Frame sensor in it with Shake Reduction.

On lenses, yes you need some new ones. If you donīt want to haul around a large camerasystem then you need small lenses as well. So no fast apertures, but a modest one. No 24-70/f2.8 but maybe only f3.5. Or a collapsable kitlens.
08-09-2014, 08:59 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Why can't Pentax "sell a higher-priced DSLR" just like Canikon can?
Was Sony able to?
08-09-2014, 10:10 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Why can't Pentax "sell a higher-priced DSLR" just like Canikon can?

What's the alternative to an FF model?
Continue to do irrelevant (paint updates) or status-quo (K-3 II with changes no one will be writing home about) updates and disappear into oblivion as DSLR maker?
I don't disagree with your first statement - i hope to see Pentax continue to issue excellent APS DSLRs. But with wireless capability so wedding photogs would buy them - they've been asking for tethering with Pentax forever.

As to your question about an alternative to an FF model - why of course, the MF model called the 645z. I think its so cool that Pentax has worked themselves into being a contender in this area.

I'm not against Pentax building a FF at all. They just lack the staff and building lines to take on a major project along with the MF project. I'm not in the market for a MF, but i think it makes perfect sense from a business perspective. Why don't forum members understand that a small company like Pentax cannot take on too many projects at the same time. To do that would probably put the K-mount out of business. Thats why i respect Ricoh - they got to the top of the color copier heap against Canon, but it wasn't overnight.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
.

---------- Post added 08-09-14 at 10:47 AM ----------




---------- Post added 08-09-14 at 10:49 AM ----------



Successful but Fuji is still losing money. Critical success and financial success are two different things ad Fuji is not seeing huge sales from their very expensive x-series. Lots of forum and review site chatter, but the sales are still bound by high price points.
.
I've looked at Fuji several times because of positive lens reports. But what stopped me was the difficulty and delays involved in Adobe being able to update their software to convert RAW files from the X-trans sensor. I like the RAW processing experience, and being forced to use jpg out of camera is not where i wanted to go. Recently a friend showed me his Bayer sensor'd X-A1 model with a compact 27mm lens - very pocketable and a very quiet camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Was Sony able to?
Bingo - it would be great to know which products have made money for Sony and which haven't. But i'm sure its all carefully guarded information. Their momentum behind the E and FE mounts seems to indicate something was working for them.
08-09-2014, 09:08 PM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Successful but Fuji is still losing money. Critical success and financial success are two different things ad Fuji is not seeing huge sales from their very expensive x-series. Lots of forum and review site chatter, but the sales are still bound by high price points.
Fuji Annual Report:
Revenue increased and the segment become profitable, mainly due to robust sales in the photo imaging business, the positive effects of yen depreciation, and successful efforts to reduce fixed costs.
- Sales of instant cameras as well as such high-value-added print services as Year Album expanded.
- Sales increases were recorded for camera modules for use in smart phones, TV camera lenses, and related products.
- Emphasis was placed on expanding sales of premium-model digital cameras


Fuji is making a profit from digital cameras. Fuji was hurt pretty badly by the drop in P&S cameras, but sales in the "premium-model digital cameras" has been strong and profitable.
08-10-2014, 02:24 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Was Sony able to?
These days Sony makes DSLTs not DSLRs, i.e., you get an EVF and lose low-light performance due to the translucent mirror.

Their A900 and A850 models were FF DSLRs but at that time Sony had several factors working against them:
  1. The sensor was very good at low ISO but got bad press for its high ISO performance.
  2. The bodies were attractively priced, but the lenses had huge price tags.
  3. Sony, at the time, was an electronics company and wasn't taken seriously as an optical company.
  4. Their hot-shoes were incompatible with standard flash equipment (OK, that one was probably not a major reason. ).
I may have forgotten some further factors. I'm sure though, that Sony's struggles do not imply that a Pentax FF will have the same acceptance problems.
08-10-2014, 02:37 AM   #75
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#sefies go crazy...

http://petapixel.com/2014/08/09/kim-kardashian-publishing-coffee-table-book-selfies-thats-happening/

Luckily not everyone is bringing out a book.
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