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08-10-2014, 02:43 AM   #76
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In order for Pentax to make a full frame camera they will need (1) competitive features, (2) competitive price, (3) a decent lens line up (not complete, but probably four zooms and a wide angle prime), and (4) some sort of feature that stands out against the other cameras out there.

These things are not insurmountable by any means, but they definitely won't be easy for a company the size of Pentax to take care of. If they could put SR in the body and still keep size pretty small, make all their full frame lenses weather sealed, that would probably take care of number 4. But in the end, they will need to be able to sell such a camera for a price that will make them money and at the same time doesn't make such a camera a glut on the market.

08-10-2014, 02:45 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Fuji Annual Report:
Revenue increased and the segment become profitable, mainly due to robust sales in the photo imaging business, the positive effects of yen depreciation, and successful efforts to reduce fixed costs.
- Sales of instant cameras as well as such high-value-added print services as Year Album expanded.
- Sales increases were recorded for camera modules for use in smart phones, TV camera lenses, and related products.
- Emphasis was placed on expanding sales of premium-model digital cameras


Fuji is making a profit from digital cameras. Fuji was hurt pretty badly by the drop in P&S cameras, but sales in the "premium-model digital cameras" has been strong and profitable.
Well is it stating somewhere that the hardware camerasales are making a profit or just that group of these activity's?
08-10-2014, 02:56 AM   #78
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Interesting how they're saying it. "Sales increased/expanded" for instant cameras, print services, camera modules etc. But for premium-model digital cameras, "emphasis was placed on expanding sales". What does it means?
08-10-2014, 02:56 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
In order for Pentax to make a full frame camera they will need (1) competitive features, (2) competitive price, (3) a decent lens line up (not complete, but probably four zooms and a wide angle prime), and (4) some sort of feature that stands out against the other cameras out there.

These things are not insurmountable by any means, but they definitely won't be easy for a company the size of Pentax to take care of. If they could put SR in the body and still keep size pretty small, make all their full frame lenses weather sealed, that would probably take care of number 4. But in the end, they will need to be able to sell such a camera for a price that will make them money and at the same time doesn't make such a camera a glut on the market.
Well they could team up with Sigma. If Sigma released some lenses in K-mount on the same day the FF of Pentax is coming (120-300mm) then you present it as a complete system. Maybe cheaper then developing it all yourself.

It has to be a small camera to stand out. I think it has to fit in K-3's body and use the same grip. The price to my feeling should be D610 at the max and not above. On new features that is a difficult one. Wheater sealed should be the standard.

---------- Post added 10-08-14 at 11:58 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Interesting how they're saying it. "Sales increased/expanded" for instant cameras, print services, camera modules etc. But for premium-model digital cameras, "emphasis was placed on expanding sales". What does it means?

They tried, but sales numbers did not rise......

(you can buy X-A1 body for 199 euro)

08-10-2014, 03:05 AM   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well they could team up with Sigma. If Sigma released some lenses in K-mount on the same day the FF of Pentax is coming (120-300mm) then you present it as a complete system. Maybe cheaper then developing it all yourself.

It has to be a small camera to stand out. I think it has to fit in K-3's body and use the same grip. The price to my feeling should be D610 at the max and not above. On new features that is a difficult one. Wheater sealed should be the standard.

---------- Post added 10-08-14 at 11:58 ----------
I'm still amazed that people don't get this: Ricoh or any other OEM will NEVER work directly with Sigma. NEVER. Is that so difficult to understand ?
They'd be very stupid to do so btw. No license, no business. As simple as that.

---------- Post added 10-08-14 at 11:08 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote

They tried, but sales numbers did not rise......

(you can buy X-A1 body for 199 euro)
Where? Can't find but for 450 euros with kit zoom.
08-10-2014, 03:33 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Well they could team up with Sigma. If Sigma released some lenses in K-mount on the same day the FF of Pentax is coming (120-300mm) then you present it as a complete system. Maybe cheaper then developing it all yourself.

It has to be a small camera to stand out. I think it has to fit in K-3's body and use the same grip. The price to my feeling should be D610 at the max and not above. On new features that is a difficult one. Wheater sealed should be the standard.

---------- Post added 10-08-14 at 11:58 ----------




They tried, but sales numbers did not rise......

(you can buy X-A1 body for 199 euro)
I think they would be more likely to team up with Tamron, since they have a history of rebadging Tamron lenses in the past (18-250, 18-270) or, perhaps Tokina. The Sigma thing doesn't seem to be a real option, except that there would be at least some third party coverage for a Pentax full frame camera.

In the long run, Pentax needs its own designs that are "special," hopefully in the same way that the FA limiteds or DA limiteds or even the DA * lenses are distinct from Nikon/Canon options on the market.
08-10-2014, 03:47 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Where? Can't find but for 450 euros with kit zoom.
Fujifilm X-A1 systeemcamera Blauw Body They ship all over Europe.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think they would be more likely to team up with Tamron, since they have a history of rebadging Tamron lenses in the past (18-250, 18-270) or, perhaps Tokina. The Sigma thing doesn't seem to be a real option, except that there would be at least some third party coverage for a Pentax full frame camera.

In the long run, Pentax needs its own designs that are "special," hopefully in the same way that the FA limiteds or DA limiteds or even the DA * lenses are distinct from Nikon/Canon options on the market.
Well if you even want people to buy it that are interested in sports then you just need the 120-300mm/f2.8 at the starting day and not in "maybe it will come in the future".
08-10-2014, 03:51 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Fujifilm X-A1 systeemcamera Blauw Body They ship all over Europe.



Well if you even want people to buy it that are interested in sports then you just need the 120-300mm/f2.8 at the starting day and not in "maybe it will come in the future".
Maybe so, but I don't see the sports market as being one that Pentax is particularly interested in attacking full force right now. I think they would be satisfied with wedding/portrait/wealthy hobby photographers as a start. Sigma would probably support a k mount full frame if it came out -- wouldn't cost them much to do so, but I just don't see Pentax licensing their lens designs.

08-10-2014, 03:54 AM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Fujifilm X-A1 systeemcamera Blauw Body They ship all over Europe.

Well if you even want people to buy it that are interested in sports then you just need the 120-300mm/f2.8 at the starting day and not in "maybe it will come in the future".
Well, if Sigma starts playing the license games with the OEMs or at least Ricoh (but I doubt it VERY much), then Ricoh may want Sigma to produce FF lenses for them to rebadge (including long/fast teles).
I don't see the interest of Sigma here, though...

---------- Post added 10-08-14 at 11:54 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Fujifilm X-A1 systeemcamera Blauw Body They ship all over Europe.
Thanks
08-10-2014, 05:01 AM   #85
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I'm also skeptical about the Sigma thing. Mr. Yamaki, Sigma's CEO, once admitted that Sigma is reluctant to make lenses for Pentax because they don't sell good, which means that there is little sense to believe that Sigma makes lenses for Pentax FF.

Tokina would have been a choice for Pentax to be allied with especially under Hoya. A son of Hoya's founder is now CEO of the company Kenko-Tokina, and his nephew is the current CEO of Hoya. Kenko-Tokina isn't a public company, so nobody except a few insiders knows who owns it, but It seems like Hoya has a substantial stake in Kenko-Tokina. To summarize, Pentax was in the same corporate group with Tokina under Hoya.

It's too early to believe that Pentax has completely separated from Tokina in terms of lens making. At least, it would have been easier for Pentax to ask Tokina under Hoya. Pentax now has to stand up for its own.
08-10-2014, 05:05 AM   #86
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08-10-2014, 05:23 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Fuji Annual Report: ...
- Emphasis was placed on expanding sales of premium-model digital cameras
If this is your evidence, the board is not saying the sales are 'strong and profitable', Winder.

In fact, it can be interpreted instead as that they need to be better.

---------- Post added 08-10-14 at 10:27 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think they would be more likely to team up with Tamron
Tamron have Sony as one of their owners now, Rondec. They are releasing very few K-mount products these days. I would have loved their new 600mm zoom.

Last edited by clackers; 08-10-2014 at 05:29 AM.
08-10-2014, 05:55 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
If this is your evidence, the board is not saying the sales are 'strong and profitable', Winder.

In fact, it can be interpreted instead as that they need to be better.
Quoted Annual Report is a little bit old. Here is the latest financial report for the quarter April to June:

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/materials/ff_fy_2015q1_001.pdf

In page 4, they say "total sales decreased due to reduction of compact digital camera's lineup and its sales volume. Otherwise, the sales of the X series proceeded smoothly and the shift to high-end models has been proceeding steadily". The X series is selling good, at least.
08-10-2014, 06:00 AM   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
Quoted Annual Report is a little bit old. Here is the latest financial report for the quarter April to June:

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/materials/ff_fy_2015q1_001.pdf

In page 4, they say "total sales decreased due to reduction of compact digital camera's lineup and its sales volume. Otherwise, the sales of the X series proceeded smoothly and the shift to high-end models has been proceeding steadily". The X series is selling good, at least.
Making a profit is good. I think the only growt is in the printing.
08-10-2014, 06:06 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Fuji Annual Report:
Revenue increased and the segment become profitable, mainly due to robust sales in the photo imaging business, the positive effects of yen depreciation, and successful efforts to reduce fixed costs.
- Sales of instant cameras as well as such high-value-added print services as Year Album expanded.
- Sales increases were recorded for camera modules for use in smart phones, TV camera lenses, and related products.
- Emphasis was placed on expanding sales of premium-model digital cameras


Fuji is making a profit from digital cameras. Fuji was hurt pretty badly by the drop in P&S cameras, but sales in the "premium-model digital cameras" has been strong and profitable.
Their numbers show that despite an "emphasis" placed on premium models, camera imaging is still in a revenue decline for 2013.

They only becomes profitable by exiting more film sales, which means in 2013 they finally closed the motion picture film manufacture (sales ended in 2012).

The latest sales data shows all systems from all manufacturers are declining and Fuji is no exception. Sony and Fuji may be taking slight nibbles from Canikon, but they are nevertheless bound by the same market dynamics of over saturation, high price points, and so on.

I am also amazed at how any Fuji's go on sale used on eBay and FredMiranda amongst other places. My local chain outlet says Fuji might sell 5% of hat Canikon does in system camber sales. Might. I believe them because a D5200 kills in price to be honest.
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