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08-10-2014, 06:21 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I would have loved their new 600mm zoom.
I still think we might see the 150-600 in K-mount with HD coating as a new DA.

I don't trust vague lines on a lens roadmap...

08-10-2014, 06:59 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
I still think we might see the 150-600 in K-mount with HD coating as a new DA.

I don't trust vague lines on a lens roadmap...
We might very well see that lens - and a DA version of Tamron's 16-300 superzoom. For $300 more than the Tamron versions and three years down the road, of course.
08-10-2014, 07:30 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
These days Sony makes DSLTs not DSLRs, i.e., you get an EVF and lose low-light performance due to the translucent mirror.

Their A900 and A850 models were FF DSLRs but at that time Sony had several factors working against them:
  1. The sensor was very good at low ISO but got bad press for its high ISO performance.
  2. The bodies were attractively priced, but the lenses had huge price tags.
  3. Sony, at the time, was an electronics company and wasn't taken seriously as an optical company.
  4. Their hot-shoes were incompatible with standard flash equipment (OK, that one was probably not a major reason. ).
I may have forgotten some further factors.
Root kit.
08-10-2014, 09:48 AM   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by philbaum Quote
Yeah but, but, but...the older generations may repeat, but the younger generations may discard the concept of carrying heavy iron around. IMHO.

I concur with your second comment. I just finished installing a Sony remote control app on my Nex6 that lets it establish its own wifi network. I installed the same app on my smart phone, and now i can control shooting paramters, WB, 2 sec delay, and change the focus location on my smart phone. It shows me the same image my camera is seeing up to 120' away - yes i tested it. For some kinds of photographers - tethering might be useful. For me, probably not so much. Cost of app: Free

My first use of this tethering was to monitor my my brewing coffee machine while i went to another room to work on my laptop

Here's the view of the Nex 6 tethering image on the Samsung android phone that is controlling it. Pls ignore the messed up WB :-)

pls note that this remote shooting only produces jpeg :-(
The flucard is similar. It establishes it's own wifi network. You can control the shooting parameters, but not shooting modes. And it produces jpegs.

A pretty good v1. Raw downloading, access to shooting modes and a few other adjustments would make it much better.

08-10-2014, 10:07 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
The flucard is similar. It establishes it's own wifi network. You can control the shooting parameters, but not shooting modes. And it produces jpegs.

A pretty good v1. Raw downloading, access to shooting modes and a few other adjustments would make it much better.
For older cameras...yes.

All newer cameras will require built-in, non-proprietary wi-fi and maybe BT compatible with mobile OSs.

Or the sales decline will continue.

The round trip from camera to PC to web (print) is over.

It will be from camera to mobile OS to app. PC optional.
08-10-2014, 03:19 PM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
For older cameras...yes.

All newer cameras will require built-in, non-proprietary wi-fi and maybe BT compatible with mobile OSs.

Or the sales decline will continue.

The round trip from camera to PC to web (print) is over.

It will be from camera to mobile OS to app. PC optional.
The sales decline will continue anyway - or that seems to be the view from what I've read. We haven't reached the bottom yet.

I'd have thought that merely including wifi isn't going to be enough to tempt those millions to go out and buy a new camera. It's good to have and for some folks very important, but on its own wifi does nothing. It's just a method of comms. The baseline is what you can do with the content you create, and how you create it. Someone takes a picure and wifis it over to their tablet. What next? All the camera has done is dumped something on the other device. Not necessarily any help to the user at all. What do they do now? In any case, third parties now pick up the chain and extract any value from each image. The camera-maker gets none of it. The logic points not to wifi but to new camera operating systems, apps and integration with mobile in addition to any technological innovations which come along. At the moment only one company is involved in all those different things, the much-reviled Sony. Their chance to clean up, but I expect they won't manage it. Just guessing of course.

Last edited by mecrox; 08-10-2014 at 03:25 PM.
08-10-2014, 03:22 PM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
The sales decline will continue anyway - or that seems to be the view from what I've read. We haven't reached the bottom yet.

I'd have thought that merely including wifi isn't going to be enough to tempt those millions to go out and buy a new camera. It's good to have and for some folks very important, but on its own wifi does nothing. It's just a method of comms. It's about what you can do with the content you create, and how you create it. Someone takes a picure and wifis it over to their tablet. What next? All the camera has done is dumped something on the other device. Not necessarily any help to the user at all. What do they do now? In any case, third parties now pick up the chain and extract any value from each image. The camera-maker gets none of it. The logic points not to wifi but to new camera operating systems, apps and integration with mobile in addition to any technological innovations which come along. Just guessing of course.
NO, that's my analysis as well.

It's the re-purchase of ageing and dated equipment that slows down when full integration with mobile OS and apps is not forthcoming. Sharing from a DSLR is incredibly hard these days and that is stalling sales and re-sales.

Last edited by Aristophanes; 08-10-2014 at 03:45 PM.
08-10-2014, 03:27 PM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
NO, that's my analysis as well.

It's the re-purchase of ageing and dated equipment that slows down when full integration with mobile OS and apps is not forthcoming. Sharing from a DSLR is incredibly hard these days and that is staling sales and re-sales.
Ah, I see where you are coming from and I think you're quite right. A raft of stuff the size of the Great Barrier Reef that no one wants is forming ...

08-11-2014, 12:04 AM   #99
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Why Canon and Nikon DSLR Sales are Down? « NEW CAMERA
08-11-2014, 02:47 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
NO, that's my analysis as well.

It's the re-purchase of ageing and dated equipment that slows down when full integration with mobile OS and apps is not forthcoming. Sharing from a DSLR is incredibly hard these days and that is stalling sales and re-sales.
This! Sharing on system cameras should be just as easy as sharing on phones. With the added functionality, that if you want to do something more with your picture, you can develop the raw image data on your PC, etc...
08-11-2014, 02:51 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote

Hm, I don't buy the reasoning. If the market was more or less flat, yes, but when we're down from 120M to 40M in two years, nope. I believe Sony is also going down in numbers.


I'd still go with the other two main reasons; slowdown in technology improvement and consequently saturation of the market.
08-11-2014, 03:54 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The latest sales data shows all systems from all manufacturers are declining and Fuji is no exception. Sony and Fuji may be taking slight nibbles from Canikon, but they are nevertheless bound by the same market dynamics of over saturation, high price points, and so on.
My local pro shop stocks Fuji (No Pentax or Sony). The vast majority of their customers who buy Fuji are buying it as a second system to Canon or Nikon. Last month was the first time I was able to play with an X-T1 at the store since they have not been able to keep up with customer orders. Fuji is just now catching up with demand.

Fuji was heavily tied to the P&S market. They didn't even offer a ILC for 5 years. The drop in P&S has hurt the bottom line of their camera division more than anyone since that is all they offered.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I am also amazed at how any Fuji's go on sale used on eBay and FredMiranda amongst other places. My local chain outlet says Fuji might sell 5% of hat Canikon does in system camber sales. Might. I believe them because a D5200 kills in price to be honest.
Fuji isn't trying to be a high volume, budget camera. The first X-mount introduced was the X-Pro 1 which was more expensive than just about any other APS-C body on the market. They are selling everything they can make. Fuji is not going to sell nearly as much as Canon and Nikon at this point since they are only 2 years into the system. They don't have any where near the glass or support.

Get a little perspective. The X-mount system is only 2 years old. If your local chain shop is selling even close to 5% Fuji then that is phenomenal for a 2 year old system. How much Pentax does your local shop sell relative to Canon/Nikon? In 2 years Fuji has made more progress with brick and mortar pro-stores than Pentax has in the last 10.
08-11-2014, 05:32 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
If your local chain shop is selling even close to 5% Fuji
I suspect they don't even do that.
08-11-2014, 07:20 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
My local pro shop stocks Fuji (No Pentax or Sony). The vast majority of their customers who buy Fuji are buying it as a second system to Canon or Nikon. Last month was the first time I was able to play with an X-T1 at the store since they have not been able to keep up with customer orders. Fuji is just now catching up with demand.

Fuji was heavily tied to the P&S market. They didn't even offer a ILC for 5 years. The drop in P&S has hurt the bottom line of their camera division more than anyone since that is all they offered.



Fuji isn't trying to be a high volume, budget camera. The first X-mount introduced was the X-Pro 1 which was more expensive than just about any other APS-C body on the market. They are selling everything they can make. Fuji is not going to sell nearly as much as Canon and Nikon at this point since they are only 2 years into the system. They don't have any where near the glass or support.

Get a little perspective. The X-mount system is only 2 years old. If your local chain shop is selling even close to 5% Fuji then that is phenomenal for a 2 year old system. How much Pentax does your local shop sell relative to Canon/Nikon? In 2 years Fuji has made more progress with brick and mortar pro-stores than Pentax has in the last 10.
Fuji released the X100 and then the X-Pto and then went on a tear of issuing low-end x-trans bodies. Why?

Because sales were tanking at the lower price points. Revenues from all price points are critical to maintain a varied product line.

My local chain (national) sells all brands but both Fuji and Pentax are very, very niche. Suffice to say that Fuji is not storming the market, merely nibbling away at some the Canikon installed base, and often only for second systems. Same for Olympus.

It is very, very hard to beat the D3200/5200 price pointerformance ratio. They still sell and sell well, dramatically outperforming mirrorless in North America, largely because or price for system buy-in.
08-11-2014, 07:36 AM   #105
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I doubt they sell 5%. At one point they has 12 Fuji X-T1 bodies behind the counter that were pre-orders and that was all they could get. They could have sold many more of them, but Fuji couldn't produce enough of them fast enough. Its a very small, new product line that is targeting the premium market.

For a brand new system Fuji has done an amazing job.

---------- Post added 08-11-14 at 09:58 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Fuji released the X100 and then the X-Pto and then went on a tear of issuing low-end x-trans bodies. Why?
The X100 is not an X-mount camera. The first X-mount camera was the Fuji X-Pro 1. The X-E1 was the second body released, and it sold for over $1,200 new. The -M1 and X-A1 didn't get announced until the Fall of 2013, which is around 19 months after the X-Pro 1 was announced. Two camera bodies 19 months later is hardly a "tear". I think you have them confused with Sony.

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
It is very, very hard to beat the D3200/5200 price pointerformance ratio. They still sell and sell well, dramatically outperforming mirrorless in North America, largely because or price for system buy-in.
This is true. I haven't said anything to the contrary. Fuji is selling very well given the age of the system. They don't have the price - performance ratio that Canon or Nikon does, and yet they are selling very well. They don't have the brand name recognition. They aren't targeting the super-zoom soccer moms market segment like Canon & Nikon. The target market is for people who want more manual control. They aren't going after the mainstream DSLR market..... yet.

Last edited by Winder; 08-11-2014 at 08:48 AM.
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