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08-11-2014, 08:41 AM   #106
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Well, the CIPA numbers bear out that there are still way more DSLRs being shipped than mirrorless. However, DSLRs are trending down, while mirrorless is flat or gaining a little... And Flickr does rate Fuji usage way behind Canikon but... ahead of Pentax. As another small datum, compare the Flickr "average daily users", for a sample of cameras:

  • iPhone 5: 13,124
  • 5D Mark II & III: 5,695
  • D3100 & D3200: 3,507
  • E-M5: 539
  • K-5 & K-5 II: 413
  • X100s: 372
  • X-T1: 272
  • K-30 & K-50: 213



Last edited by Doundounba; 08-11-2014 at 11:19 AM. Reason: Add K-5 II to K-5 total
08-11-2014, 08:53 AM   #107
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Sharing from a IL Camera (Why would anyone want to?)

QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
This! Sharing on system cameras should be just as easy as sharing on phones. With the added functionality, that if you want to do something more with your picture, you can develop the raw image data on your PC, etc...
Who will be the first camera maker to offer a camera on a telephone company device list for a Media Plan? Who will be the first dSLR or mirrorless maker to offer an interchangeable lens camera on a telephone company device list for a Media Plan? Who will be the first camera make to offer a camera with a Media Plan Contract where the telephone company pays for the camera (IOW, a camera that has an embedded EMEI)?

That will be necessary before sharing from a camera is as easy as sharing from your phone. Eye-Fi and Pentax Flu sharing is easy enough when they're linked to a phone. Even Nikon's Wi-Fi Network professional tethering and linking system requires an external accessory, I think.
08-11-2014, 09:03 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Who will be the first camera maker to offer a camera on a telephone company device list for a Media Plan? Who will be the first dSLR or mirrorless maker to offer an interchangeable lens camera on a telephone company device list for a Media Plan? Who will be the first camera make to offer a camera with a Media Plan Contract where the telephone company pays for the camera (IOW, a camera that has an embedded EMEI)?

That will be necessary before sharing from a camera is as easy as sharing from your phone. Eye-Fi and Pentax Flu sharing is easy enough when they're linked to a phone. Even Nikon's Wi-Fi Network professional tethering and linking system requires an external accessory, I think.
Apple receives patent for interchangeable iPhone camera lenses | Ars Technica

The patent is for the attachment method, not lenses. Yet.
08-11-2014, 09:03 AM   #109
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The problem with the sales numbers is that they are not seasonally adjusted and they don't take into account product cycle. People have to have a reason to upgrade to the next body or make the jump from a P&S to a ILC. Over the past 10 year technology has been moving forward fast enough to keep sales going. For many people IQ and performance has exceeded their needs and they have no reason to upgrade to the next body. When we do see a real step forward in technology we will see a jump in sales. I have been seriously looking at mirrorless for the last two years. When mirrorless exceeds my needs I will make the move.

Organic sensor are close to being reality for the market. AF technology for CDAF is very close to meeting and exceeding PDAF. EVF technology is moving very fast. mirrorless has the most room to grow.

08-11-2014, 09:04 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
The X100 is not an X-mount camera. The first X-mount camera was the Fuji X-Pro 1. The X-E1 was the second body released, and it sold for over $1,200 new. The -M1 and X-A1 didn't get announced until the Fall of 2013, which is around 19 months after the X-Pro 1 was announced. Two camera bodies 19 months later is hardly a "tear". I think you have them confused with Sony.
No, I don't.

They actually used Sony's sensor in their lowest end models. Fuji has few lenses for their lower-end.

Market share is critical for cameras and they have been chasing the price/performance ratio. The "manual control" market is tiny. Itsy bitsy. All those soccer moms subsidize the rest of us.

Fuji has to go after the mainstream market.

---------- Post added 08-11-14 at 01:07 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That will be necessary before sharing from a camera is as easy as sharing from your phone. Eye-Fi and Pentax Flu sharing is easy enough when they're linked to a phone. Even Nikon's Wi-Fi Network professional tethering and linking system requires an external accessory, I think.
Nikon's did have an external wi-fi accessory at about $200. Wheee! Much mocked.

Now they are built-in wi-fi:

Using Your Nikon Camera's Built-In Wi-Fi from Nikon

Any wi-fi as an added cost will be a sales killer very, very soon. Eye-fi and Flucard = dead signal save for older camera retrofits.
08-11-2014, 09:11 AM   #111
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And change are coming again for Smart Phone. This new technology will make 360 degree photo with simple Smart phone. This technology will be available also for other camera but the young crowd will be attracted. It,S Theta idea in a very very small package
https://www.immervisionenables.com/2014/07/11/worlds-smallest-360-lens-liter...action-videos/
08-11-2014, 10:35 AM - 1 Like   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
My local pro shop stocks Fuji (No Pentax or Sony). The vast majority of their customers who buy Fuji are buying it as a second system to Canon or Nikon. Last month was the first time I was able to play with an X-T1 at the store since they have not been able to keep up with customer orders. Fuji is just now catching up with demand.

Fuji was heavily tied to the P&S market. They didn't even offer a ILC for 5 years. The drop in P&S has hurt the bottom line of their camera division more than anyone since that is all they offered.



Fuji isn't trying to be a high volume, budget camera. The first X-mount introduced was the X-Pro 1 which was more expensive than just about any other APS-C body on the market. They are selling everything they can make. Fuji is not going to sell nearly as much as Canon and Nikon at this point since they are only 2 years into the system. They don't have any where near the glass or support.

Get a little perspective. The X-mount system is only 2 years old. If your local chain shop is selling even close to 5% Fuji then that is phenomenal for a 2 year old system. How much Pentax does your local shop sell relative to Canon/Nikon? In 2 years Fuji has made more progress with brick and mortar pro-stores than Pentax has in the last 10.
But Fuji's bleeding. That's what Ricoh doesn't want and I can understand them.
08-11-2014, 12:07 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
But Fuji's bleeding. That's what Ricoh doesn't want and I can understand them.
There's so much to like about them - tiny, discarding legacy tech with a non-Bayer sensor, no OVF, small registration distance mount, quality lenses, retro design pretensions.

But incomplete glass (especially at the long end), expensive, incompatible for nearly two years with Lightroom, video not taken seriously ... some big crosses for mainstream buyers.

How will Fuji get their money back on the investment? They seem to have won mindshare but not market share.


Last edited by clackers; 08-11-2014 at 12:14 PM.
08-11-2014, 12:12 PM   #114
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Compare Fuji to Pentax:

Fuji 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 R XF LM OIS WR Lens Fujifilm 16432853 B&H

Pentax SMC DA 18-135mm F/3.5-5.6 ED AL (IF) DC WR Lens 21977 B&H

The Fuji is about 18% more mass, costs almost $300 more, has less focusing distance, and slightly better AOV for the Pentax (when wide that counts). The Pentax takes a less costly 62mm filter compared to the 67mm for the Fuji.

You want Fuji? Open the wallet.
08-11-2014, 01:02 PM   #115
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Not that I disagree, but how are you figuring the AOV of the Pentax is better than the Fuji? Fuji has a smaller sensor, or they're lying about their focal length?
08-11-2014, 01:54 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Not that I disagree, but how are you figuring the AOV of the Pentax is better than the Fuji? Fuji has a smaller sensor, or they're lying about their focal length?
And ISO..
08-11-2014, 02:03 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
Not that I disagree, but how are you figuring the AOV of the Pentax is better than the Fuji? Fuji has a smaller sensor, or they're lying about their focal length?
I think it is from the specification page on B and H website -- the Fuji is listed as 76.5 to 12 degrees, while the Pentax is listed as 76 to 11.9 degrees. Probably not a sensor difference, but rather 18-135 is not the exact focal length for either lens.
08-11-2014, 02:05 PM   #118
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That would make the Fuji wider, though.
08-11-2014, 02:45 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by ElJamoquio Quote
That would make the Fuji wider, though.
I agree. By half a degree.
08-11-2014, 03:03 PM   #120
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
But Fuji's bleeding. That's what Ricoh doesn't want and I can understand them.
Fuji was out of the ILC market for 5 years. Their only exposure was the P&S market which has tanked over the last 5 years.

Their premium ILC line (X-mount) has been selling better than expected and is profitable.

---------- Post added 08-11-14 at 05:04 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Fuji has to go after the mainstream market.
Fuji has never gone after the mainstream market.
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