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08-11-2014, 03:58 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Their premium ILC line (X-mount) has been selling better than expected and is profitable.
They finances do NOT say it is profitable.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Fuji has never gone after the mainstream market.
Fuji has been more mainstream than Nikon. Fuji was either #2 or #3 behind Canon or Sony in P&S for decades bot film and digital.

Their entire brand image has been mainstream largely because of consumer film. They still have one of the largest line-ups of P&S cameras in the market.

Fuji has been trying to substitute higher-margin gear for the disappearing P&S segment, but nowhere in their financials does it say the X-series makes money. In fact, they deliberately skirt the issue:

Annual Report 2014 | FUJIFILM Holdings

08-11-2014, 04:16 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Fuji has been trying to substitute higher-margin gear for the disappearing P&S segment, but nowhere in their financials does it say the X-series makes money. In fact, they deliberately skirt the issue:

Annual Report 2014 | FUJIFILM Holdings
As I wrote before, Fuji's Imaging Solutions segment, which includes the X series, has turned around in the quarter April to June.

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/materials/ff_fy_2015q1_001.pdf

See page 4.
08-11-2014, 04:30 PM   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
As I wrote before, Fuji's Imaging Solutions segment, which includes the X series, has turned around in the quarter April to June.

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/materials/ff_fy_2015q1_001.pdf

See page 4.
I don't think it matters how many times you post it. They refuse to read it or believe it.

---------- Post added 08-11-14 at 06:42 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Fuji has been more mainstream than Nikon.
Hardly. Yes they made P&S cameras, but never had much luck with SLRs and depended on Nikon bodies & Lenses for their DSLR. Unless you consider MF rangefinder film cameras mainstream. Fuji has always been a rangefinder company, and rangefinders have been niche for the last 20+ years.
08-11-2014, 04:57 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daikokuya Quote
As I wrote before, Fuji's Imaging Solutions segment, which includes the X series, has turned around in the quarter April to June.

http://www.fujifilmholdings.com/en/pdf/investors/finance/materials/ff_fy_2015q1_001.pdf

See page 4.
I did.

They sold their film properties to turn a profit and merged unprofitable divisions in. Their profit driver appears to have been the Instax! And Fuji paper!

Fuji barely even mentions their camera line-up.

You guys need to learn to read an AR for what they do NOT say.

08-11-2014, 06:36 PM   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote

Their premium ILC line (X-mount) has been selling better than expected and is profitable.


Kindly show where p4 of the Fuji .pdf says that, Winder.


Failing that, please provide actual sales figures from elsewhere, or you won't be believed.


In fact, in this quarter their digital camera unit is down another 15%, according to that document, two years after the X series was introduced.

Last edited by clackers; 08-11-2014 at 06:44 PM.
08-11-2014, 06:48 PM   #126
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I think Winder bases his impression on sales rankings on Amazon, but that of course, doesn't necessarily tell if a company is really selling well and whether they are turning a profit on what they are selling.
08-11-2014, 07:45 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Kindly show where p4 of the Fuji .pdf says that, Winder.


Failing that, please provide actual sales figures from elsewhere, or you won't be believed.


In fact, in this quarter their digital camera unit is down another 15%, according to that document, two years after the X series was introduced.
Page 4. YoY sales are up 4.1% (Returned to Profitability)

"...Profitability was secured due to the strong sales of instant cameras and profit improvement of digital camera business."

The Imaging Solutions division returned to profitability this year. Do you think it was from the booming P&S market? The growing market for Fuji right now is the X-mount system. You can believe what ever you want.

---------- Post added 08-11-14 at 09:58 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think Winder bases his impression on sales rankings on Amazon, but that of course, doesn't necessarily tell if a company is really selling well and whether they are turning a profit on what they are selling.
I'm basing it off of the Fuji's report, local sales, and what I see other professionals using. I haven't seen anyone ditch the FF DSLR yet, but the number of professions who have add Fuji bodies and lenses to their collection has been surprising. I think the fact that Canon and Nikon have left the 7D and D400 off the map has left room for premium APS-C bodies from other brands. One would think that if you shoot Nikon FF that you would opt for a Nikon APS-C DSLR, but 3 pros I know who shoot with Nikon have added Fuji MILC bodies and I know a Canon user who has added a Sony A7.

Fuji isn't going to sell to the mass market anytime soon. They don't have the distribution, brand recognition among entry level buyers, or production capacity. They are selling fewer units, but at higher margins. Fuji isn't selling as much as Pentax right now, but K-mount has a head start of a few decades. What Fuji has accomplished in such a short time is very impressive. I don't think the technology is there yet, but many people do, including quite a few professionals.
08-11-2014, 08:31 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think Winder bases his impression on sales rankings on Amazon, but that of course, doesn't necessarily tell if a company is really selling well and whether they are turning a profit on what they are selling.
Look at Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/cameras/canon/

https://www.flickr.com/cameras/fujifilm/

The 2 year-old X-Pro 1 has 1.6 million uploads and 175 daily users.

For Canon one has to go to deep into the 30 nominal rank of their camera base to find the same # of daily users and close to 100 to find the same # of uploads.

It's like a 60:1 spread. Throw in Nikon and it would be more like a 100:1 against Fuji.

Fuji is making an elite, hobbyist system. Maybe they will work their way down the price point as part of a grander strategy, but they are nowhere near close to DSLR sales in terms of unit volumes. Not even close.

Price is why.

As long as DSLRs continue to offer a $500 price point for a D3200 kit with an excellent sensor and pretty good OVF, super-fast AF, decent video, wi-fi built in, they will trump the new EVF tech and (maybe) better glass (maybe).

Maybe the DSLR makers don't really want to be the value brand makers, but they are. The Olympus EM-5 thumps the Fuji X-series on Flickr, BTW. And the Pentax K-5, K-30, and K-x (small form factor sold very, very well) hold their own.

---------- Post added 08-12-14 at 12:37 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Fuji isn't going to sell to the mass market anytime soon. They don't have the distribution, brand recognition among entry level buyers, or production capacity.
They most certainly do!!!

Fuji has been either #2 or #3 in total volume sales for decades now. Only Canon is more widely distributed. Fuji along with Canon and Sony are THE names in consumer cameras, wit Fuji consistently ranking #2 with major brand awareness. Unlike Sony and Canon Fuji is known as a photography company while Canon has copiers and printers and Sony is Playstation.

The entire camera industry (except Leica and medium format) is based on selling volume to subsidize higher-end. Fuji is no different. That's why Pentax continues to pump out K-500 kits. If they don't move those...no K-3.

08-28-2014, 11:23 AM   #129
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I just recently went to Yellowstone and it's all smartphones and DSLR's. Canikon's 500 dollar range DSLR's are everywhere. People seem to take snapshots with a smartphone (my wife uses an iphone) or grab a lower price D3300/5300 or Canon equivalent and use that. A few FF mixed in. I actually saw a LOT of DSLR's in use. I saw no pentax camera's all day however or Fuji. I get comments on the fuji by people who think it's a film camera, the thing looks like it's 30 years old.
Pentax has an excellent K50/500 but do a horrid job marketing it or putting it in stores like best buy where people are picking up the low end Canikons. That weather sealed body would attract buyers if they knew it existed.


People still want the low light and autofocus performance of the larger camera's and depth of field. You can't get that from a smartphone. The regular p/s pocket camera is near dead as smartphones do the same thing.
08-28-2014, 12:06 PM   #130
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Look at Flickr:

https://www.flickr.com/cameras/canon/

https://www.flickr.com/cameras/fujifilm/

The 2 year-old X-Pro 1 has 1.6 million uploads and 175 daily users.

For Canon one has to go to deep into the 30 nominal rank of their camera base to find the same # of daily users and close to 100 to find the same # of uploads.


So where is the K-3?

https://www.flickr.com/cameras/pentax/
also not in the Ricoh segment.
08-28-2014, 12:18 PM   #131
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For some reason, they're refusing to add the K-3 to the listing.
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