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08-13-2014, 07:22 AM - 2 Likes   #151
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QuoteOriginally posted by Asahiflex Quote
I've yet to find a 5D Classic cheaper than $500 but yes, it's certainly a way to enter the FF world. I've owned two 5D's and while the FF sensor is great, the cameras are trash from a user's point of view. It has one of the worst back LCD screens, even the best photo in the world will look like crap on that LCD. And its user interface is utter crap compared to Pentax. But its sensor is definitely nice, provided you shoot in RAW. I liked what my 58mm f/2 Takumar did on the 5D: http://www.camerac.nl/foto/58mmTak/58mmtak-01.jpg

---------- Post added 08-13-14 at 08:58 AM ----------



My 7-element 50mm f/1.4 Takumars did not clear the mirror on two 5D's I had (back then I had no 8-element version).

Regarding the longer focal lengths: the 200mm f/4 Super-Multi-Coated is definitely up to snuff for serious work, IMO (see for instance http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo293/spotmatic/smctak200-05.jpg). Anything longer than that and IQ will degrade dramatically, indeed.
Thanks for your valuable inputs as usual.

---------- Post added 08-13-2014 at 10:30 PM ----------

What should Pentax do?

I think they want to hunker down for the storm.
Low inventory, don't over extend. (Canon and Nikon are over extended with huge overheads and inventory, unsold 100D piling over last years 500D; 550D; 600D; 650D, etc)
Concentrate only on the Japan market, where they still have presence, history and respect. (don't need to be a global player to be profitable)


What I would like them to do?
Either come clean, and give up FF (declaring so ) and announce a good roadmap of lenses for apsc (fast lenses; primes in the 24-28mm range; 10-12mm prime; etc)
Or go FF which will still be better than a D610 or 6D (SR; good size; no AA filter; smalish Pentax lenses)

08-13-2014, 08:04 AM   #152
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
to be fair to Fuji, well they might be the "secondary system choice" but still became top choice for that purpose-- in 3 years. That's great for a system that started from scratch and just recently... Compared to, say, Pentax and decades of the K-mount. Or the Sony NEX which has been around longer too.
I wasn't putting down Fuji. I am very happy with their lenses, and what they have accomplished in the past 3 years is pretty remarkable. The X-mount system is still young, and I am excited about some of the future lenses they have on their roadmap.

---------- Post added 08-13-14 at 08:19 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
I wonder if anyone really expects a single thing suggested on this thread to happen?
I don't.
At this point I expect them to release something really off-the-wall i.e. Theta and odd, expensive lenses i.e. DA 20-40mm.
08-13-2014, 08:19 AM   #153
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What should Pentax do.....

Start a kickstarter like lomography (their instant camera) to sell their FF camera! See how many people will back them up! solve the problem once and for all!

(I will back them up)...
08-13-2014, 11:02 AM   #154
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QuoteOriginally posted by pinholecam Quote

Either come clean, and give up FF (declaring so ) and announce a good roadmap of lenses for apsc (fast lenses; primes in the 24-28mm range; 10-12mm prime; etc)
Or go FF which will still be better than a D610 or 6D (SR; good size; no AA filter; smalish Pentax lenses)
Yes, times are changing. Mirror-less systems are increasingly out-classing Apsc dslr systems, and if you don't have the FF option on the side, like Canon and Nikon do, then why settle for a fast aging system of mainly f2.8 lenses that are only f4 on apsc, when the likes of Fuji are putting out very good to stellar f1.2/1.4 lenses at a fast pace, lenses that actually really put Apsc on near-equal footing with FF, while Ricoh/Pentax may be wanting to use "K3 apsc is just as good as FF, so we don't need FF' as a marketing slogan, or just something to ensure their peace of mind, but in reality are doing pitiful little to truly promote Apsc and prove that the crop system is "just as good as FF". They are now throwing their all into MF, but unless they start spitting out f1.4-f1.8 prime and zoom lenses, I find their ongoing lack of a viable FF option increasingly tedious. They simply can't row the "backwards k-mount compatibility" boat forever. Sigma is starting to discontinue the K-mount lenses, how long before Tamron does the same. As of 2015, Pentax should either go all out for Apsc or build a twin-system like Canon and Nikon. The lingering on legacy K-mount has had its best days.

Chris

08-13-2014, 11:26 AM   #155
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Sigma is starting to discontinue the K-mount lenses, how long before Tamron does the same.
Tamron is worse than Sigma, not better. If I recall correctly (I may not) Tamron hasn't made a new K-mount lens in quite some time. When asked about this, Tamron basically responded that they were concentrating on mirrorless mounts, etc.

Tamron seems to be exhausting old stock and old designs. At least Sigma makes *some* of it's new lenses in K-mount.
08-13-2014, 11:53 AM   #156
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Yes, times are changing. Mirror-less systems are increasingly out-classing Apsc dslr systems, and if you don't have the FF option on the side, like Canon and Nikon do, then why settle for a fast aging system of mainly f2.8 lenses that are only f4 on apsc, when the likes of Fuji are putting out very good to stellar f1.2/1.4 lenses at a fast pace, lenses that actually really put Apsc on near-equal footing with FF, while Ricoh/Pentax may be wanting to use "K3 apsc is just as good as FF, so we don't need FF' as a marketing slogan, or just something to ensure their peace of mind, but in reality are doing pitiful little to truly promote Apsc and prove that the crop system is "just as good as FF". They are now throwing their all into MF, but unless they start spitting out f1.4-f1.8 prime and zoom lenses, I find their ongoing lack of a viable FF option increasingly tedious. They simply can't row the "backwards k-mount compatibility" boat forever. Sigma is starting to discontinue the K-mount lenses, how long before Tamron does the same. As of 2015, Pentax should either go all out for Apsc or build a twin-system like Canon and Nikon. The lingering on legacy K-mount has had its best days.

Chris
I would rather side with pinholecam on his opinion.. How many people (outside of Pentax users) will buy into pentax FF if there are already plenty of choices from Canikony out there already? How many Pentax users will buy Pentax FF if there is a run-of-mill K-mount FF model with less capable than the current offerings from Canikony (6D, D610 and A7r etc). Sure, I am interested in a Pentax FF (when they have one), but I rather save the money until the Pentax FF is ready with a much better model than its competitors. Sigma and Tamron will do what they have to do as long as it makes sense to build a K-mount version of their lenses when they deem profitable. As a consumer, I can understand you worry about the supply of Sigma and Tamron lenses, but that profit from Sigma/Tamron k-mount lenses will not be in Pentax's pocket. Should Pentax worry about losing the availability of k-mount lenses from Sigma and Tamron? I certainly hope not.

OTOH, Pentax is doomed according to many outside of Japan but certainly not in Japan (I have been in Japan more than few times recently),

IMHO, meanwhile, I am still enjoying my K-5IIs... it is good enough for me now... I do stage photography....
08-13-2014, 12:10 PM   #157
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Professional support really is only a thing for sports photographers, isn't it? Other professional users wouldn't get support anyway.
Hmmm. I have to take issue with that assessment.

Any professional photographer could benefit from professional support. Cameras break - and given that most professional photographers own their own equipment - they are generally not in a position where they can just easily replace their camera or lens and get on with the next assignment. In fact, in my opinion this is THE reason Pentax was never able to compete with Nikon or Canon in the professional 35mm market - they never had their own professional services division.

I remember when I was a newspaper photographer in the late 1980s, and one of my Nikon FM-2 bodies suffered a jammed shutter. I was a card-carrying member of Nikon Professional Services. I pulled the card out of my pocket, called the toll-free number on the back, and explained the situation. I was immediately transferred to a technician who diagnosed the issue over the phone. They then offered to overnight me a loaner body, and they arranged for a FedEx overnight pickup of my busted FM-2. The camera was repaired and returned to me by the beginning of the next week.

Pentax had nothing like that available (if they had, I would have been shooting Pentax, instead).
08-13-2014, 12:29 PM - 1 Like   #158
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
I would rather side with pinholecam on his opinion.. How many people (outside of Pentax users) will buy into pentax FF if there are already plenty of choices from Canikony out there already? How many Pentax users will buy Pentax FF if there is a run-of-mill K-mount FF model with less capable than the current offerings from Canikony (6D, D610 and A7r etc). Sure, I am interested in a Pentax FF (when they have one), but I rather save the money until the Pentax FF is ready with a much better model than its competitors. Sigma and Tamron will do what they have to do as long as it makes sense to build a K-mount version of their lenses when they deem profitable. As a consumer, I can understand you worry about the supply of Sigma and Tamron lenses, but that profit from Sigma/Tamron k-mount lenses will not be in Pentax's pocket. Should Pentax worry about losing the availability of k-mount lenses from Sigma and Tamron? I certainly hope not.

OTOH, Pentax is doomed according to many outside of Japan but certainly not in Japan (I have been in Japan more than few times recently),

IMHO, meanwhile, I am still enjoying my K-5IIs... it is good enough for me now... I do stage photography....
Sigma and to a lesser extent have long been important to offer budget alternatives to more expensive generic lenses. See the Sigma 500/4.5, that is still thé preferred super tele lens for use on the K3. Even with a significant price drop, to a similar price as the Sigma here in Europe, the Da560mm is still hardly selling as far as I know. The Sigma 500 is an attractive choice on the crop K3, but how attractive is a 70-200/f2.8, that will only be f4 on Apsc? I think Sigma will see the writing on the wall and sees no bread and butter in Pentax K-mount, backed up by poor sales for the K-mount.
I'm allright with putting FF in the fridge again (the Sony A7r is a highly attractive camera for my needs and all I will need in the coming years), but quite frankly, with mirror-less and especially Fuji building a true alternative to FF, with real equivalent or near equivalent lenses to long time popular and proven full frame lenses, I simply see the attractiveness of Pentax Apsc getting less. We were allright with 10mp sensors once, as we were content with f4 equivalent to FF lenses on Apsc.
As said above, if Pentax wants to be the top Apsc system, they should come up with a vision quite soon on how to do it. The K3 is up to it, the lenses however are still just Apsc, fine for the most part, but not about to make FF redundant, at all....

Chris

08-13-2014, 01:07 PM   #159
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Mak Quote
Sigma and to a lesser extent have long been important to offer budget alternatives to more expensive generic lenses. See the Sigma 500/4.5, that is still thé preferred super tele lens for use on the K3. Even with a significant price drop, to a similar price as the Sigma here in Europe, the Da560mm is still hardly selling as far as I know. The Sigma 500 is an attractive choice on the crop K3, but how attractive is a 70-200/f2.8, that will only be f4 on Apsc? I think Sigma will see the writing on the wall and sees no bread and butter in Pentax K-mount, backed up by poor sales for the K-mount.
I'm allright with putting FF in the fridge again (the Sony A7r is a highly attractive camera for my needs and all I will need in the coming years), but quite frankly, with mirror-less and especially Fuji building a true alternative to FF, with real equivalent or near equivalent lenses to long time popular and proven full frame lenses, I simply see the attractiveness of Pentax Apsc getting less. We were allright with 10mp sensors once, as we were content with f4 equivalent to FF lenses on Apsc.
As said above, if Pentax wants to be the top Apsc system, they should come up with a vision quite soon on how to do it. The K3 is up to it, the lenses however are still just Apsc, fine for the most part, but not about to make FF redundant, at all....

Chris
You certainly have strong opinion on certain points (in bold).... and Pentax will still be doomed (except may be in Japan).
08-13-2014, 01:18 PM   #160
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I think he's correct about the DA560. US retailers still have it at $6700, which is a bit silly in my view when the 2/3rds faster Sigma 500 is available for $1700 less.
08-13-2014, 01:23 PM   #161
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
To me that is a sign of a total desperation and confusion: those users wiling to spend $300 on a decade old FF camera (5D), and not willing to spend $1800 on a much better and new FF camera (6D) from the same manufacturer, will not spend ANY kind of money on an FF camera from Pentax.
Only way one will spend on Pentax FF will be if it costs less than $300, or if it beats a $1800 camera in all departments by a huge margin, and comes for slightly less bucks.
In other words, each and every such user demands Pentax to deliver something impossible and contrary to common sense, which will not be appreciated and will be complained about anyway.
Not by a long shot.

I would spend cheap money on a aging 5D as I would need to trim the mirror to use my tak 35 et al. It would also give me a feeler for the system and the format(in digital). If Pentax dropped the body I would spend up to $2500-$3000 to take part as all my existing lenses will work. If I find I liked the 5D system then I would be able to make a full swap. As it stands I can keep my K5 and kit and use a cheap 5D (and probably 85/1/8) OR completely sell up and buy into another system OR buy the Pentax system if/when/ever it is released.
08-13-2014, 01:49 PM   #162
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QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
So far, to me Olympus and Panasonic are kings of the good quality mirrorless camera plus good quality optics combo. I don't count Q in that category, because half of its lens lineup are fixed aperture toy and lens cap designated lenses.
Well, Olympus already has two toy body cap lenses (15mm and 9mm fisheye).

So don't let the toy lenses for the Q detract from the very fine optics in the 01 prime and 08 wide zoom.
08-13-2014, 01:54 PM   #163
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
You certainly have strong opinion on certain points (in bold).... and Pentax will still be doomed (except may be in Japan).
My goodness, for a moment I thought I put all these phrases in bold and italic
I shot Olympus for four years before moving to Pentax and having to sell all (including three SHG lenses) because changing times dictated the demise of 4/3. I now tend to be more aware of changing times and try to look ahead at what manufacturers are developing. On the sinking Olympus ship, believe it or not, there were still quite a few holding on to the mast and arguing that Olympus might yet release an E7 dslr.
Now there are quite a few with big 4/3 heavy fantastic lenses that don't really have a camera they belong on.
That won't happen to Pentax, thanks to Ricoh, but neither do I hope that the 21mm/f2.8 will still be the only generic apsc wide angle option in three years time (excluding the super wide angle 15mm), for the Pentax Apsc system's sake.

Chris
08-13-2014, 02:14 PM   #164
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I think Pentax should make a nice grilled cheese sandwich with Velveeta®.
08-13-2014, 04:58 PM   #165
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QuoteOriginally posted by lytrytyr Quote
Well, Olympus already has two toy body cap lenses (15mm and 9mm fisheye).

So don't let the toy lenses for the Q detract from the very fine optics in the 01 prime and 08 wide zoom.
4 out of total of 8 lenses are toy lenses plus a cap lens. And 01 is hardly offered with a new body.
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