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10-05-2014, 11:46 AM   #481
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Pentax is not lacking lenses, it's lacking a FF body :P

10-05-2014, 11:54 AM   #482
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
You'll need a lot more than that esp zoom lenses FF won't work for Pentax they're not even doing that well with APS-C which is shame but the rot set in years ago Hoya priced them off the market (lenses) and it's just too late IMO to make a big push. Ricoh are a bit of a mixed bag too just not enough development esp with "lenses people want to buy"
But how much do you need before launching the first body?
Sony needed zero FF lenses, before their A7 series. Fuji needed zero lenses, before launching their X-system. Yet for Pentax, 12 lenses (with at least 2 more in prototype stage), plus several third party ones, plus what's available second hand (and what we have in our bags) - all those are not enough?
Oh, come on...
10-05-2014, 12:20 PM   #483
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
You'll need a lot more than that esp zoom lenses FF won't work for Pentax they're not even doing that well with APS-C which is shame but the rot set in years ago Hoya priced them off the market (lenses) and it's just too late IMO to make a big push. Ricoh are a bit of a mixed bag too just not enough development esp with "lenses people want to buy"
Uh, yeah, they'll need at least one normal zoom and at least one telephoto zoom. That is obvious, which is why Pentax is bringing them out.

---------- Post added 10-05-14 at 12:28 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But how much do you need before launching the first body?
Sony needed zero FF lenses, before their A7 series. Fuji needed zero lenses, before launching their X-system. Yet for Pentax, 12 lenses (with at least 2 more in prototype stage), plus several third party ones, plus what's available second hand (and what we have in our bags) - all those are not enough?
Oh, come on...

Indeed. Every focal length from 12mm to 500mm is covered, and most with several choices.
10-05-2014, 12:44 PM   #484
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But how much do you need before launching the first body?
Sony needed zero FF lenses, before their A7 series. Fuji needed zero lenses, before launching their X-system. Yet for Pentax, 12 lenses (with at least 2 more in prototype stage), plus several third party ones, plus what's available second hand (and what we have in our bags) - all those are not enough?
Oh, come on...
Just one short zoom, 25-100mm or so and off you go.

10-05-2014, 12:55 PM   #485
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Ok folks keep telling yourself that it's not going to work..most of the limited primes are slow for their cost (FF users want FAST glass) well some of them do
There are quite a few lenses you'd need 24-70mm f2.8/f4, 24-105mm, 70-200mm f2.8/f4, UWA FF zoom, 28-something more affordable FF normal range zoom. 24 and 28mm primes also needed, 85mm is the standard portrait focal length for FF. Really I can't see RIcoh's cheque book managing that lot


Not going to happen most people find the Pentax lens range erm..well limited (not just the name but what's on offer) hard facts are nobody (and this includes Sony) are going to touch Canikon in the FF market..so really it would be no more than a token effort. As for Sony's E mount the prices alone would scare more people off I'd wager those that have bought one are buying not a lot of Sony glass (adapters and using other lenses)


I'm not being on a downer just realistic the window for "half serious FF challenge" shut a few years back Pentax could have done a FF body but didn't the game is well underway and I think it's really just to please a few shooters out there it would have next to no impact on the top 2 makers.
10-05-2014, 12:59 PM   #486
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
Just one short zoom, 25-100mm or so and off you go.
What for? There's no camera for it... yet!
When the FF will happen, they will surely have a "standard zoom" for it (what focal range and how fast, I can't say, who knows, they might go for a 25-100-ish but I'm guessing something shorter). They will have the tele zooms ready, and the several existing lenses. And they will start launching lens after lens, until the FF line won't have significant holes.
Indeed, the "standard zoom" is all that's needed - besides what we have or know (tele zooms included) to call it a very good start.
10-05-2014, 01:00 PM   #487
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
You'll need a lot more than that esp zoom lenses FF won't work for Pentax they're not even doing that well with APS-C which is shame
More bizarre comments, Mr Spocko.

What company has a bigger, more complete lineup of APS-C lenses than Pentax???
10-05-2014, 01:08 PM   #488
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
More bizarre comments, Mr Spocko.

What company has a bigger, more complete lineup of APS-C lenses than Pentax???




And this helps how?
Let me see


1: Canon
2: Nikon
3: Sony
4: Pentax


So you tell me what's going right and what's going wrong cos from where I'm standing it's not really working
I like Pentax we all do, but you can't really ignore the face they're fourth in a four horse race, and that's despite Sony's mixed direction in the market


If Pentax do a FF what price entry FF mid or high? Will one body cut it? If it's too expensive it's a niche product (few will buy into it merely to please some current users) if it's cheap enough then maybe..but then Canikon have budget FF bodies and I just can't see how Pentax can hope to compete on ANY level lenses, flash system (sore point but valid) I'm not seeing it

10-05-2014, 01:15 PM   #489
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
And this helps how?
Let me see


1: Canon
2: Nikon
3: Sony
4: Pentax
I'm talking about the lenses, as well you know. Very naughty of you trying to change the subject!

Please show me your numbers for those.

If it's money, the first three companies are in real financial strife with the market as it is.

The good times are over.
10-05-2014, 02:25 PM   #490
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
But how much do you need before launching the first body?
Sony needed zero FF lenses, before their A7 series. Fuji needed zero lenses, before launching their X-system. Yet for Pentax, 12 lenses (with at least 2 more in prototype stage), plus several third party ones, plus what's available second hand (and what we have in our bags) - all those are not enough?
Oh, come on...
The Sony was designed to be used with any lens ever produced. Lacking lenses? I think not.
10-05-2014, 02:37 PM   #491
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The first full frame Sony was the A900, that was out in 2008, erm where was Pentax? I'd have expected a full frame body at the most 2 years ago. I'm not really sure where Sony are going with E mount, though they do lack lenses they have adapters for A mount and other maker out there.


Good times are over for everyone why should we expect Pentax to invest in FF when they're not exactly flushed with cash anyway
In some places you can't even find Pentax products on display to buy, I don't think they have the distribution network to pull it off
10-05-2014, 03:14 PM   #492
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The first E-mount Sony were the A7/A7r duo; it's about them, and the FE line being launched with zero previously existing lenses. An event which happened a year ago.

You're trying to convince us that having about a dozen OEM lenses, plus third party, plus second hand and already-in-our-bags - all native K-mount - and plus whatever they'll launch with the camera it's so much worse than launching a FF line with zero previously existing lenses.
Good luck with that.
10-05-2014, 05:52 PM   #493
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
The first full frame Sony was the A900, that was out in 2008, erm where was Pentax? I'd have expected a full frame body at the most 2 years ago. I'm not really sure where Sony are going with E mount, though they do lack lenses they have adapters for A mount and other maker out there.
That Alpha line seems to be a dead end, Spocko, unfortunately for anyone invested in it. That's the Sony way. Launch lots of products and hope. Ricoh won't be looking to emulate what's presumably a sinkhole.

If you adapt Canon or Pentax lenses for the E mount, say goodbye to the flash system, autofocus and auto aperture.

I do it every now and again, but it's not the solution for anyone but the hardcore or masochists like me.

Last edited by clackers; 10-05-2014 at 07:26 PM.
10-06-2014, 12:07 AM   #494
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
The Sony was designed to be used with any lens ever produced. Lacking lenses? I think not.
Assuming everyone would be fine fiddling with adapters; which is obviously not true. That's what their marketing and the army of hypers wants us to believe, but it's just a ruse to hide the lack of native lenses.
You can be certain, if they had more lenses than the competition they would brag about it and forget completely about adapters
10-06-2014, 05:05 AM   #495
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QuoteOriginally posted by D1N0 Quote
Pentax is not lacking lenses, it's lacking a FF body :P
Exactly !

QuoteOriginally posted by Mr Spocko Quote
And this helps how?
Let me see


1: Canon
2: Nikon
3: Sony
4: Pentax


So you tell me what's going right and what's going wrong cos from where I'm standing it's not really working
I like Pentax we all do, but you can't really ignore the face they're fourth in a four horse race, and that's despite Sony's mixed direction in the market
I've been looking into Canon gear lately, and there really isn't a lot for APSC. I stopped and thought they really leave you high and dry in Canon, but the EF range is really big - but its unaffordable. There has been some recent lenses from Canon which are quite cheap. So while looking if the grass is greener, it isn't really so. Pentax has a pretty large lens range, plus the DA and FA limiteds, and none of the other 3 do compact limited style lenses. The limiteds really make the Pentax range unique, just like the leica lens range.

So what should Pentax do ? Own the limited style of lens ! Expand the high-quality-optic/metal-bodied lens range. Put an ultra sonic motor in the body. Put sealed mini ball bearing cages down the screw shaft to limit noise from friction. Put some weather seals in too. Own it before Leica does that or the other 3. Silence the screw drive.

I was looking at some Canon lenses in the hand recently - there 40mm 2.8 pankace copy - and its big and doesn't even have distance scales. But it is way cheaper than Pentax's 40's. But at least Canon has the stepping motor which is interesting.

Pentax should do some innovating with the body motor.
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