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10-10-2014, 02:20 AM   #511
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
But their marketshare is eroding. Chinese brands are attacking on all levels. Lenovo, Oppo and Huawei with entry to mid, perhaps high end phones, OnePlus on the high end and Xiaomi on the mid to high end of things. Xiaomi is extremely successful, they usually have a phone or two in the top ten of best selling phones in the world. I own two Xiaomi phones and am very happy.
I wonder when we will see some Chinese camera brands emerging. I'd love to see them compete with the old established brands.

10-10-2014, 05:03 AM   #512
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I wonder when we will see some Chinese camera brands emerging. I'd love to see them compete with the old established brands.
On the cinema camera market there is I believe at least one Chinese company that is competing, and there are a couple of ODMs that at least used to produce point & shoot cameras that'd be rebadged. They weren't that good though. I don't think we'll see a newcomer in the DSLR space. But mirrorless cameras might be more plug & play... we're seeing that on the digital cinema front, with plenty of new brands establishing themselves with interesting and powerful products, seemingly coming out of nowhere. Pick a nice sensor, nice processor, add some software and put it in a box. No need for the fine mechanics of a mirror, for a seperate PDAF module, ...


I'm a bit worried that Pentax can't compete with these newer brands.
10-10-2014, 05:33 AM   #513
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
On the cinema camera market there is I believe at least one Chinese company that is competing, and there are a couple of ODMs that at least used to produce point & shoot cameras that'd be rebadged. They weren't that good though. I don't think we'll see a newcomer in the DSLR space. But mirrorless cameras might be more plug & play... we're seeing that on the digital cinema front, with plenty of new brands establishing themselves with interesting and powerful products, seemingly coming out of nowhere. Pick a nice sensor, nice processor, add some software and put it in a box. No need for the fine mechanics of a mirror, for a seperate PDAF module, ...


I'm a bit worried that Pentax can't compete with these newer brands.
They won't need to compete. I don't see those Chinese newcomers, or any newcomers for that matter, enter the DSLR market either. Any newcomers will be entering the mirrorless market, ILC or otherwise.
10-10-2014, 05:53 AM   #514
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
They won't need to compete. I don't see those Chinese newcomers, or any newcomers for that matter, enter the DSLR market either. Any newcomers will be entering the mirrorless market, ILC or otherwise.
Agreed, but for how long will a DSLR make sense? Right now they offer advantages over mirrorless alternatives (and I'd pick a DSLR over any mirrorless camera I have touched so far, though the NX-1 might change that), however the viewfinder lag is getting smaller and smaller, sensors get more and more sensitive (so that the electronic viewfinder will be brighter and clearer than an optical viewfinder), and EVFs get sharper and sharper. At some point a mirrorless camera will offer a bright, big and sharp viewfinder (compared to the small dim tunnel a DSLR offers), it doesn't have a noticeable lag, it will give a much truer representation of what the photo will end up being, be easier to manually focus, it will be much quieter and won't suffer from a blurred picture due to vibration. There'll be no reason for the existence of a DSLR. And what happens then?

10-10-2014, 06:04 AM   #515
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QuoteOriginally posted by dickgrafixstop Quote
I'd see a full frame offering as a photographic "hail mary" in today's marketplace. To echo the topic "what Pentax needs to do" is simple, it had better
improve it's marketing and market coverage or pray for yet another buy-out (perhaps Samsung). The products are not available in local camera stores, the advertising for brand awareness in nearly non-existent or at best ineffective, and the user base is slowly deserting or seeking alternatives. The existing product line is excellent, but it doesn't matter if no one knows or cares. Until Pentax increases its visibility and spreads the word about it's products and the capabilities available, anything else it does is merely pissing upwind.
That is truly a recipe for how to swing from a profitable company to a loss-making afterthought that Ricoh should sell. Pentax should do precisely the contrary of everything you wrote - as if exactly what they are doing is the correct path.
10-10-2014, 06:11 AM   #516
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Agreed, but for how long will a DSLR make sense? Right now they offer advantages over mirrorless alternatives (and I'd pick a DSLR over any mirrorless camera I have touched so far, though the NX-1 might change that),
That's subject to very personal opinion, I'm afraid. For me DSLRs stopped making sense already some time ago. For example, the pixels of many EVFs nowadays are much finer then the coarse grain of the focussing screen that I tend to keep looking at with OVFs. Moreover, OVFs are just to dark in comparisson. The many advantages of mirrorless just outweigh trying to keep on dealing with the disadvantages and extra costs of mirrors and prisms.
10-10-2014, 08:38 AM   #517
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
That is truly a recipe for how to swing from a profitable company to a loss-making afterthought that Ricoh should sell. Pentax should do precisely the contrary of everything you wrote - as if exactly what they are doing is the correct path.
No. How Pentax conduct themselves where you live is an important part of the mix in "Why Pentax?". It's no good sitting in Japan counting all the money. If a brand is making no effort or at least no headway in country X, then buyers there beware: that brand might as well be dead to them. Hearing all about Pentax in Japan doesn't answer the question "Why Pentax?" if you don't live in Japan. They do need sales elsewhere, you know.
10-10-2014, 08:45 AM   #518
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QuoteOriginally posted by mecrox Quote
No. How Pentax conduct themselves where you live is an important part of the mix in "Why Pentax?". It's no good sitting in Japan counting all the money. If a brand is making no effort or at least no headway in country X, then buyers there beware: that brand might as well be dead to them. Hearing all about Pentax in Japan doesn't answer the question "Why Pentax?" if you don't live in Japan. They do need sales elsewhere, you know.
As I have written many times, after Pentax destroyed Pentax in the USA, Hoya destroyed whatever was left. Until Ricoh can rebuild market share elsewhere there simply isn't enough cash flow to afford rebuilding the full USA distribution and marketing model. I agree logic says they should, but doing so would be a bad business decision.

We all think the moment matters - that Pentax must do this or that now or their chance is past. It just isn't true. The only moment that passes is our opportunity to buy what we want today. Tomorrow there will be something else and Ricoh will make one and sell it. They'll be fine, you'll be fine - maybe I'll be dead, but that won't matter.

The USA market is uniquely arrogant and demanding of consumer products manufacturers. There are many things Ricoh needs to do, and in a certain order. The USA is not at the front of the list. It is probably the last priority for Ricoh. They'll get here - later. Americans need to accept that we are no longer Masters of the Universe.

P.S. - don't put it past Ricoh to acquire some brand or company that has USA distribution infrastructure in the imaging channel, merge it into Ricoh Imaging and use it to lever themselves into stores. Tiffen or something like that.


Last edited by monochrome; 10-10-2014 at 08:54 AM.
10-10-2014, 12:40 PM   #519
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
What Should Pentax Do?
Make the Kerrowdown a FF camera right now!!! and put end to all these FF debates on the forum around here.

Then all those that want one can have it, those that don't, can carry on with the fine bodies current available K5, K3 etc, then all Pentax camera users win .

P.S. Pentax please stay with the same lens K mount.
10-10-2014, 01:22 PM   #520
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
As I have written many times, after Pentax destroyed Pentax in the USA, Hoya destroyed whatever was left. Until Ricoh can rebuild market share elsewhere there simply isn't enough cash flow to afford rebuilding the full USA distribution and marketing model. I agree logic says they should, but doing so would be a bad business decision.

We all think the moment matters - that Pentax must do this or that now or their chance is past. It just isn't true. The only moment that passes is our opportunity to buy what we want today. Tomorrow there will be something else and Ricoh will make one and sell it. They'll be fine, you'll be fine - maybe I'll be dead, but that won't matter.

The USA market is uniquely arrogant and demanding of consumer products manufacturers. There are many things Ricoh needs to do, and in a certain order. The USA is not at the front of the list. It is probably the last priority for Ricoh. They'll get here - later. Americans need to accept that we are no longer Masters of the Universe.

P.S. - don't put it past Ricoh to acquire some brand or company that has USA distribution infrastructure in the imaging channel, merge it into Ricoh Imaging and use it to lever themselves into stores. Tiffen or something like that.
It's not all about the US though. I'm currently in Spain, and it seems like Pentax is also disappearing from the few shelves they were still on. In Germany they aren't everywhere either. Or in Malaysia. Singapore. Forget about China, people don't even know the brand there.
10-10-2014, 01:36 PM   #521
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
It's not all about the US though.
Stop with the silly-person talk.
10-10-2014, 01:52 PM   #522
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
They won't need to compete. I don't see those Chinese newcomers, or any newcomers for that matter, enter the DSLR market either. Any newcomers will be entering the mirrorless market, ILC or otherwise.
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Agreed, but for how long will a DSLR make sense? Right now they offer advantages over mirrorless alternatives (and I'd pick a DSLR over any mirrorless camera I have touched so far, though the NX-1 might change that), however the viewfinder lag is getting smaller and smaller, sensors get more and more sensitive (so that the electronic viewfinder will be brighter and clearer than an optical viewfinder), and EVFs get sharper and sharper. At some point a mirrorless camera will offer a bright, big and sharp viewfinder (compared to the small dim tunnel a DSLR offers), it doesn't have a noticeable lag, it will give a much truer representation of what the photo will end up being, be easier to manually focus, it will be much quieter and won't suffer from a blurred picture due to vibration. There'll be no reason for the existence of a DSLR. And what happens then?
The only reason i bought the K3, another DSLR - sigh, is that I have a coupla very good K lenses, and the K3 offers super low-light AF at -2ev. I used it to advantage last evening when i shot a play promo after the sun went down at HS ball park. I had a portable soft box so that was no problem, but the K3's AF was crucial to getting the focus set before each photo and there was even the last glow of a sunset in one of them. The point being - DSLRs are still successful because they are being built at the upper quality end of cameras. When the mirrorless are being built at the same quality level - then dslrs days are numbered. A friend of mine has the A7s and it has extremely low light focusing as well and he says the quality is higher than the original set of A7 cameras. Now the NX 1 looks likes its built at the high end of things. No wonder Canon and Nikon are getting nervous.

i hope for Pentax's sake, and mine, that the first Pentax FF is a mirrorless. It means no more of this micro-phase focus calibration - which doesn't work particularly well on zooms anyway.

It seems to me that there are just too many lemmings running towards a cliff - no offense meant. Anyway, i hasten to add that my K3 DSLR and its K-mount lenses continue to function extremely well. I always put ear-muffs over the K3 when i talk about EVFs :-)
10-10-2014, 03:20 PM   #523
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
As I have written many times, after Pentax destroyed Pentax in the USA, Hoya destroyed whatever was left. Until Ricoh can rebuild market share elsewhere there simply isn't enough cash flow to afford rebuilding the full USA distribution and marketing model. I agree logic says they should, but doing so would be a bad business decision.

We all think the moment matters - that Pentax must do this or that now or their chance is past. It just isn't true. The only moment that passes is our opportunity to buy what we want today. Tomorrow there will be something else and Ricoh will make one and sell it. They'll be fine, you'll be fine - maybe I'll be dead, but that won't matter.

The USA market is uniquely arrogant and demanding of consumer products manufacturers. There are many things Ricoh needs to do, and in a certain order. The USA is not at the front of the list. It is probably the last priority for Ricoh. They'll get here - later. Americans need to accept that we are no longer Masters of the Universe.

P.S. - don't put it past Ricoh to acquire some brand or company that has USA distribution infrastructure in the imaging channel, merge it into Ricoh Imaging and use it to lever themselves into stores. Tiffen or something like that.
I live in England, thus Europe.

But "Why Pentax?" is the same question wherever you live.
10-10-2014, 03:44 PM   #524
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I wonder when we will see some Chinese camera brands emerging.
In 1958:

Seagull Camera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
10-11-2014, 08:17 AM   #525
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
I wonder when we will see some Chinese camera brands emerging. I'd love to see them compete with the old established brands.
There is Kodak, which is now simply a brand name by JK Imaging.

Kodak reborn: A look at JK Imaging's 2014 lineup: Digital Photography Review

Last edited by luftfluss; 10-11-2014 at 08:31 AM.
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