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03-07-2015, 11:20 AM   #886
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
That is nonsense. Why would anyone in their right mind buy a product that is inferior on the promise that if they spend their money again in a few years they will get what they want?

Arguably one of the best evf's on the market has a fatal flaw. If you follow a moving subject, hit the shutter button on continuous, the evf goes black and updates you with the last shot you took.

Sorry, I pass. Maybe in a few years the functionality will equal what I have now. Then Nikon, Canon and Pentax will start offering it as an improvement.
Well quite. I need to travel from A to B reliably. Not available using the motorised buggy. So I'll stick with Dobbin for the moment.

Just bought a K-S1. Lovely bright clear OVF, with all the shooting info I need (I don't use live view). It'll probably be 10 years before it gets replaced. If OVF is still streets ahead of EVF, then I'll continue to stick with OVF for another 10 years. I've seen EVF (although not that recently). Not good enough at the minute.

03-07-2015, 11:45 AM   #887
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
kadajawi:
We are spending way too much talking about EVFs and how mirrorless would take over the world on a forum dedicated to a traditional SLR brand, IMO. So far we still have a choice, and I am on a forum dedicated to a brand which reflects my choice; how about you?

What do you mean, "Pentax should have lenses on the market"? For a hypothetical future new mount mirrorless? Who would buy lenses which can't be used?

I'm sure you won't spend money on the FF - after all it's a Pentax, not a Samsung - but I'm also sure it will be a successful product (by meeting and perhaps exceeding sales targets). It's not a short term solution, it's not a quick fix to every problem conceivable - but something they'll be able to build on.

The NX1 is a $1500 APS-C camera. Its speed doesn't come for free, and of course more processing power can be added to a DSLR as well.

I don't like OLED's oversaturated colors. That's cheesy consumer technology with a limited life span.
I'm just a bit worried Pentax will fade into obscurity if they don't go with the times. I do like my Pentax gear.

They don't need a mirrorless at this moment, it won't be that great anyway. But if they enter the party when it is really getting going, they are in a bad position.

The reason why I won't spend on the FF is because I don't need a FF, it doesn't fit my needs/probably comes with disadvantages that I am not willing to pay (though I would like to have a FF viewfinder... but that's really everything that I'd want).

OLED's don't have to be over-saturated. You can dial down on the saturation, or use the ability to be very saturated to extend what the display can show... things that are really saturated in real life will be in the screen, but it won't exaggerate.

There's a blackout in DSLRs too, and you may be able to turn off the review function and go straight back to the live feed? If not, that function may be added...

Btw., IIRC the K-01 had the ability of having special lenses that extend into the mirror box, in order to get a smaller overall package. The problem was it was only launched with one such lens, and so people didn't realize and made fun of the mirrorless camera that was nearly as big as a DSLR, without offering anything in return. If they had shown it with several lenses made just for this camera, maybe it had done better. If you place it next to a back then current NEX, with a similar lens, and the overall package is the same, just that the K-01 is more balanced and easier to hold... that might have convinced some people.

Last edited by kadajawi; 03-07-2015 at 11:51 AM.
03-07-2015, 11:55 AM   #888
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QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I'm just a bit worried Pentax will fade into obscurity if they don't go with the times. I do like my Pentax gear.

They don't need a mirrorless at this moment, it won't be that great anyway. But if they enter the party when it is really getting going, they are in a bad position.

...
I don't think "going with time" is relevant, when it comes to overconsume energy like mirrorless do, and when it implies redesigning completely new systems for marginal "'improvements" that remain to be proven on a "pure photography" point of view...
Time will tell - maybe too late, for other more vital things but photo industry - if you really need this overconsumption and product turn-overs ; but i suspect environmental issues will soon stop some of the current industrial trends...
Anyway, i do very much appreciate Pentax's way of industrial continuity, because it is both taking care of their customers and the planet long term interest.

03-07-2015, 12:38 PM - 1 Like   #889
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Mirrorless fans are way too concerned with the world refusing to go their way
But probably the quickest way for Pentax to go into obscurity would be to listen to them. Don't continue with the DSLRs, ignore your users and go instead full-speed mirrorless. Try to become yet another MILC maker, while you're weak, while you can't compete with the electronic giants and their ever-discounted products. How many MILC makers are making a profit out of their cameras, I wonder...

Yeah, sure. Right now DSLRs are the best place to be, for Pentax. They have a loyal user base which they can grow. They have product lines which they can develop further. They've made the amazing 645z and the K-3. They have a plan for moving the K-mount higher end, to higher margins. They're doing the opposite of "fading into obscurity".

And the DSLR market is still ~3.6 times larger than the MILC one, it's not like it would disappear in a year or two. If anything would really happen, there would be plenty of warning, and plenty of time to react.


Last edited by Kunzite; 03-07-2015 at 12:49 PM.
03-07-2015, 01:42 PM   #890
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QuoteOriginally posted by JeffB Quote
True - in dim light.

OVF are bright when you are looking at bright light. The opposite is true of EVF. My main issue with EVF is still their dimness compared to ambient light in what some may call extreme situations: high altitude sun and snow. But I call that home. Until EVF brightness can auto adjust up to a point where it is much closer to midday sun there is still going to be an advantage to OVF.
the only possible way that ambient light could interfere with the ability to use an evf is because there is light getting in around the eyecup... light bleeding onto an ovf screen is no better.

the sony a7* eyecups are junk, but there are easy fixes for it.

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 12:59 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
That is nonsense. Why would anyone in their right mind buy a product that is inferior on the promise that if they spend their money again in a few years they will get what they want?
why buy lenses in a mount that has no future, or in a mount that only works natively on an ovf camera?

QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Arguably one of the best evf's on the market has a fatal flaw. If you follow a moving subject, hit the shutter button on continuous, the evf goes black and updates you with the last shot you took.
i don't think that i can duplicate that behavior on the a7r... if i hold the shutter button down, it updates with a live image, after a very brief dip to black.
03-07-2015, 02:21 PM   #891
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
why buy lenses in a mount that has no future
Just curious, could you tell everyone here, on Pentaxforums.com, which mount are you talking about?

Last edited by Kunzite; 03-07-2015 at 02:58 PM.
03-07-2015, 02:48 PM   #892
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"No future"....
Looks like fool's game
03-07-2015, 03:25 PM   #893
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Frankly, this discussion is getting way too rude and personal. I have both 2 Pentax DSLRs and 2 MILC cameras at the moment. If one can't take great pictures with either kind of camera - they can't be much of a photographer. So this is just a "tempest in a teapot", signifying nothing.

03-07-2015, 03:59 PM   #894
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
i don't think that i can duplicate that behavior on the a7r... if i hold the shutter button down, it updates with a live image, after a very brief dip to black.
My K-3 does that, too
03-07-2015, 04:06 PM   #895
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan Quote
My K-3 does that, too
with a much shorter dip to black too, i bet

this is one area where ovf rocks.
03-07-2015, 05:17 PM   #896
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All that is needed is one or two new mirrorless models that are as good as or better than a DSLR, to get new users to buy those and to make the switch. I don't think there will be enough time for Pentax to switch. All recent camera purchases amongst my friends were mirrorless.

I like mirrors, I just don't think they will be a significant part of the market in 5-10 years.

The dip to black has to be longer for DSLRs. It's physics. Mirrorless aren't as fast as they can become. Mirrorless can also have less lag between shutter press and photo.
03-07-2015, 05:44 PM - 1 Like   #897
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In short, Pentax is doomed.
03-07-2015, 05:59 PM   #898
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QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
You really think a rangefinder has no mirror(s) inside? Oh my
Can you still call a sony A7r mirrorless when it has a catadioptric lens on it?
03-07-2015, 05:59 PM   #899
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Just curious, could you tell everyone here, on Pentaxforums.com, which mount are you talking about?
Olympus 4/3. Or is it one of the Sony mounts that they dropped recently.
03-07-2015, 10:12 PM   #900
osv
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QuoteOriginally posted by derekkite Quote
Olympus 4/3. Or is it one of the Sony mounts that they dropped recently.
gee, i wonder how many lenses b&h lists

sony e-mount: 83 lenses
sony a-mount: 122 lenses
olympus 4/3: 34 lenses
olympus m4/3: 105 lenses
k-mount: 107 lenses
nikon: 285 lenses
canon eos: 267 lenses
Lenses - B&H Photo Video

"The M4/3 system that we all know and love is now up to 133 different lenses with native M4/3 mounts. There are a staggering 63 different AF lenses soon to be available (4 of them are announced but not yet available) and another 70 Manual Focus lenses and Cine lenses."
Has M4/3 hit the wall?: Micro Four Thirds Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review
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