Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
03-14-2015, 06:09 PM   #931
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,609
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
I think X-Pro 2, or whatever will be called, will not have an OVF. Fuji was developing X System as it went on, improvising without any fixed plan. X100 was popular, a test of retro design, then the X-Pro1 came based on it.
Optical VF in non-SLR design is difficult, limited for a lens or two, and whatever OVF X-Pro1 had, will most likely be abandoned in X-Pro2.
As long as it was popular enough I think they will continue. Leica has been quite successful with OVF non-SLR cameras. The X-Pro1 is similar, though it IIRC doesn't have that focusing thing where you just needed to match the center window (what a beautiful design!). It IIRC has an LCD screen inside the viewfinder, which was used to overlay all sorts of information (think the red squares we get in our Pentax DSLRs, just much more sophisticated, higher resolution). When you switched to EVF mode a backlighting system would move into the light path, and that LCD screen turned into a proper EVF. Wonderful design and idea. I'm not sure how far they made use of the LCD in OVF mode, but a histogram would be possible, or an overlay that tells you the area the currently mounted lens covers... being able to do it for lenses that weren't released when the camera was made.

The OVF is particularly useful for wide angle lenses, and it isn't too difficult. "Just" a bit of glass in front of the LCD screen.

This kind of system would be possible for DSLRs too. Putting a proper LCD in could cost a bit, but otherwise not too much of an issue, and you'll have to fit an even light source that can be moved into the light path and seal the whole system better, so light couldn't spill onto the sensor.

03-14-2015, 06:29 PM   #932
Pentaxian
Uluru's Avatar

Join Date: May 2010
Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 2,400
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
Hmm... 500 units/month initial production volume (I wonder if they increased that), 2 years of "steady, never decreased" sales...
500 a month? Is that true? If true, that is ridiculously low. Why they bother with production at all?
That equals to a run of ~12,000 cameras in two years. Probably Leica sells more of their X2 compacts than that.

They really need to make that damned lens a 35mm. If X100 were a 28mm camera, it would not sell at all. But it sold in 100,000 units in 12 months. That 35mm lens was the reason people bought X100 in 8x quantities of the GR, despite numerous flaws in the camera. Then retro looks. But 35mm was the appeal.

Well, we'll see in a month. If there is no a 35mm FoV compact camera from Ricoh, then they really have no idea what sells and users want.

Last edited by Uluru; 03-14-2015 at 06:38 PM.
03-15-2015, 01:50 AM   #933
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,423
Of course it isn't, I missed a zero - it's 5,000 units per month (the initial production volume as specified in the press release, i.e. there can and will be adjustments later down the road).
Thanks for pointing it out, and apologies for not having proof read it carefully.
03-15-2015, 03:18 AM   #934
Pentaxian
Clavius's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: De Klundert
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,115
QuoteOriginally posted by Pål Jensen Quote
As far as interchangeable lens cameras are concerned they were an SLR only company. Mirrorless was around in the film days too. Pentax didn't make them. They still make small (D)SLR's and small lenses.
Like a company that, for example, still makes really "small" CRT television sets in 2015? The fact that that company handicaps itself by not producing any flat led TV doesn't make their CRT any more interesting or smart.

---------- Post added 15-03-15 at 11:26 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
That's a myth, Clavius. :-)

Neither they nor their lenses offer price advantages, despite not having to account for a mirror in the design.
Yeah, it's a myth...
Pentax K-3 €999,- here in Holland

Sony A7 €999,- (with cashback) here in Holland, same store!

03-15-2015, 04:52 AM   #935
Senior Member




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Sweden
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 290
QuoteOriginally posted by Uluru Quote
500 a month? Is that true? If true, that is ridiculously low. Why they bother with production at all?
That equals to a run of ~12,000 cameras in two years. Probably Leica sells more of their X2 compacts than that.

They really need to make that damned lens a 35mm. If X100 were a 28mm camera, it would not sell at all. But it sold in 100,000 units in 12 months. That 35mm lens was the reason people bought X100 in 8x quantities of the GR, despite numerous flaws in the camera. Then retro looks. But 35mm was the appeal.

Well, we'll see in a month. If there is no a 35mm FoV compact camera from Ricoh, then they really have no idea what sells and users want.
I remember then I saw Fuji X100 at Photokina. I and others were very impressed of the camera, everything wasn´t working at the fair, but anyway...
Some months later I saw tests of X100. When I had buy it if it cost around 300€/$ with all of this flaws, but not ~1100.
I get disappointed and the Fuji name sank a lot for me.
Perhaps they had sold less if X100 was eq. 28, but i guess it sold good because of retro style.
I think Fuji X100 get a lot of attention too, but how many now GR?
That can be the explanation of 100.000 of X100 and 60.000 GR.
I guess people want different lenses on Richo GR, for me 24Mp and equiv. 28mm are fine. For others 21, 35, 50 or 70mm are right.
Guess Richo was thinking of street photo and city landscape with the camera. For people in the street and mingle, I think 21 and 28mm are fine.
But for architecture/ city landscapes a SR with sensor shift seams right. Hope it comes 2 models 28mm and 35 or 50mm (35mm macro limited?).
03-15-2015, 05:18 AM   #936
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,423
60,000 units per year (estimate) for the GR, and how many for the very similar Coolpix A?
The X100 was quite unique, and I'm not sure sales continued in its second year like they do with the GR. But those are details; what matters is that both companies managed to make some very compelling products, and they must be congratulated for that.
03-15-2015, 05:40 AM   #937
Pentaxian
thibs's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Photos: Albums
Posts: 5,161
QuoteOriginally posted by Clavius Quote
Like a company that, for example, still makes really "small" CRT television sets in 2015? The fact that that company handicaps itself by not producing any flat led TV doesn't make their CRT any more interesting or smart.
Mmm That's the only thing you could come up with?
You seem very bitter. Why would you just go where you'd be happy (honest suggestion) ?
03-15-2015, 06:21 AM   #938
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,609
QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Mmm That's the only thing you could come up with?
You seem very bitter. Why would you just go where you'd be happy (honest suggestion) ?
Maybe he really likes Pentax. Or he'd like Pentax to bring their expertise to cameras he really cares about. Or maybe he thinks mirrorless is the future, and wants Pentax to be there when the market shifts.

03-15-2015, 06:29 AM   #939
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,478
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
Maybe he really likes Pentax. Or he'd like Pentax to bring their expertise to cameras he really cares about. Or maybe he thinks mirrorless is the future, and wants Pentax to be there when the market shifts.
Or . . . . .
03-15-2015, 06:42 AM   #940
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,423
None of those are working. #1 - how could you like Pentax, if you loathe their products and business decisions? #2 - makes no sense to ask a manufacturer to abandon their customer base just because you like another kind or product; and it contradicts the idea of liking Pentax. And #3 - that's just "Chicken Little"-style mirrorless propaganda, which has no place on a Pentax forum IMHO. I really doubt CRT sales are still over 3x as large as LCD's, which would be the only thing making this point pertinent.

So we need a 4th option.
03-15-2015, 06:58 AM   #941
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,609
QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
None of those are working. #1 - how could you like Pentax, if you loathe their products and business decisions? #2 - makes no sense to ask a manufacturer to abandon their customer base just because you like another kind or product; and it contradicts the idea of liking Pentax. And #3 - that's just "Chicken Little"-style mirrorless propaganda, which has no place on a Pentax forum IMHO. I really doubt CRT sales are still over 3x as large as LCD's, which would be the only thing making this point pertinent.

So we need a 4th option.
I see DSLRs as horse carts around 1880, 1900... yes, cars are hard to use, fuel is hard to get, they are expensive, noisy and slow. Why would anyone prefer that over a horse? And it's true, horses and horse carts still exist, and they have their purpose.

As for #1... they made the best DSLRs. Chances are when they properly shift to mirrorless they will make great mirrorless cameras.
03-15-2015, 07:52 AM   #942
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NJ
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 4,705
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I see DSLRs as horse carts around 1880, 1900... yes, cars are hard to use, fuel is hard to get, they are expensive, noisy and slow. Why would anyone prefer that over a horse? And it's true, horses and horse carts still exist, and they have their purpose.
But here's the thing, and it will *never* be otherwise: with an OVF, you are seeing the scene as it actually is, with the EVF you are seeing the camera's interpretation.

Its somewhat like the difference between being at an event, and reading as some person live-Tweets about it.
03-15-2015, 08:26 AM - 1 Like   #943
Lens Buying Addict
monochrome's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Kirkwood (St. Louis) MO
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 19,478
QuoteOriginally posted by luftfluss Quote
Its somewhat like the difference between being at an event, and reading as some person live-Tweets about it.
Watching a video stream of the event that someone captures with an MILC.
03-15-2015, 08:57 AM   #944
Pentaxian




Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Nelson B.C.
Posts: 3,211
QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I see DSLRs as horse carts around 1880, 1900... yes, cars are hard to use, fuel is hard to get, they are expensive, noisy and slow. Why would anyone prefer that over a horse? And it's true, horses and horse carts still exist, and they have their purpose.

As for #1... they made the best DSLRs. Chances are when they properly shift to mirrorless they will make great mirrorless cameras.
But, and big but, I cannot buy a mirrorless for any price today that matches the performance of my ovf that I use right now. Ricoh sells a mirrorless, the GR. A great camera by all accounts but utterly useless for what I do. All the best ones do is insert delay and clutter in the way of the very challenging task of finding and following quickly moving subjects.

They won't work for me, and if Pentax is intent on forcing me into something that doesn't work for me, someone else will sell me hardware that works for me.

Oddly, Pentax seems to know what I want and need and are producing things that I buy. Mirrorless and evfs are a manufacturing solution that has a ways to go before it matches or exceeds the performance of an ovf for what I use it for. There are lots of shooting styles that would do fine with a mirrorless. Great. They are far less demanding and an evf works for them.

I suspect Ricoh will enter the mirrorless market with an interchangeable lens GR variant. A few choice primes with exquisite IQ and handling that make the most of the promise of mirrorless.

And frankly I would be far more interested in two or three stops less noise on the aps-c body than a major redesign around not quite there technology.
03-15-2015, 09:07 AM   #945
Pentaxian




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Romania
Posts: 8,423
It's rather like watching a video stream of the event while being at the event. And claiming that it's so much better than to simply look around.

QuoteOriginally posted by kadajawi Quote
I see DSLRs as horse carts around 1880, 1900... yes, cars are hard to use, fuel is hard to get, they are expensive, noisy and slow. Why would anyone prefer that over a horse? And it's true, horses and horse carts still exist, and they have their purpose.

As for #1... they made the best DSLRs. Chances are when they properly shift to mirrorless they will make great mirrorless cameras.
I'm sorry, but with that analogy you're just restating your bias. And it being an extreme analogy (horse carts, for a modern DSLR?) we must conclude it's a pretty extreme bias.

It's not like I don't understand - if video is important, an EVF is a natural choice. But Pentax is nowhere near the best brand for both EVF-equipped large sensor mirrorless nor video; and trying to reshape an entire brand disregarding its loyal users is a quasi-futile attempt, as Ricoh is not making strategies by forum noise. Surely, a better option is to look for a brand suited for your needs. Pentax is ours.

As for #1, they are still making the best DSLRs. Chances are they will continue to do so for as long as we'll keep buying them - and we will.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
645z, ad, camera, cameras, canon, display, dslr, evf, features, ff, film, full-frame, glass, lens, lenses, market, mirror, mirrorless, money, nikon, pentax, pentax news, pentax rumors, results, sensor, time, value, vs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
This is what Pentax should do Rekusu Pentax Medium Format 19 01-12-2015 01:10 AM
What should I do? kodai84 Photographic Industry and Professionals 4 01-05-2014 08:49 AM
Focusing on Pentax K-Mount only - Or what should I do with my M42s antipattern Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 5 01-30-2013 10:26 AM
What Should I Do? tabl10s Pentax K-5 8 10-16-2012 03:55 AM
what Pentax should do nathancombs Pentax DSLR Discussion 12 07-06-2007 01:39 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:14 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top