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08-12-2014, 12:18 AM - 1 Like   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
The professional market is shrinking and has been largely replaced by the prosumer and hobbyist market. Brands have actually been trying to run away from the "pro" moniker because of the unemployment baggage lately.

I was going to respond, but Alamo5000 said it all for me:

QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
Brands might be running away---but it's the stupidest move ever if they are. They need to embrace the very talent that can, and does showcase what really can be created with their products.

What do you think draws so many new people into photography? But I think it's even more than that. Old school endorsement whether implicit or implied matters. A lot.
The point is, it's not about how big the pro market is, or how many potential sales there might be in that space, but the impact those people using Pentax will have on others' perceptions (and the net effect on the brand as a whole).

08-12-2014, 02:44 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by thibs Quote
Tokina does not produce for Pentax so what's your point ?
Please observe the lens construction diagrams below


16-50f2_8.gif


taken from Boz's site copied by him from Pentax sales documents


L0000041-construction.gif


taken from Tokinas lens archive section


Can you spot a difference ????? Oh just to mention the Tokina lens is Discontinued
Attached Images
   
08-12-2014, 03:43 AM - 1 Like   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
A new K-mount mirrorless APS-c with a viewfinder, flip-out rear screen, and a hybrid contrast detect / SR based phase detect AF system. It also shouldn't be crippled in anyway -- like the K-01 was with no on-board wireless flash, etc.
This is what the k-50/500 replacements should look like IMO. Mirrorless, K-mount, k-x / k100d size, integrated EVF, flipping LCD, continuous AF in video, great peaking, DOF priority view mode. It may not be the ultimate small mirrorless Pentax line (which could be GR based?), but it will sell those DA lenses until Pentax has decided what to do next.
08-12-2014, 04:22 AM - 1 Like   #94
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QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
A few commenters have mentioned connected cameras and open software, but it still isn't clear what they hope to achieve with this. I think everyone has a different understanding of how deep they want this to go. Does it mean wi-fi and the ability to upload images direct to websites? Does it mean that the camera just becomes an empty shell of hardware for Google to provide an OS for? Or something in-between. I think you have to specify what you want the camera to be able to do as a result of this technology.

We wouldn't know, and that's the beauty of an open platform. People will come up with things for the camera to do -- some very useful, some purely for novelty. For example, I've thought it would be nice to have a hyper focal mode. You could write an app for that. How about a brenizer method mode? Stitching the photos into a nice medium format style RAW file. I could also imagine the ability to un-cripple M and K lenses. Why can't the camera meter the instant after the aperture is closed to get proper exposure? It's just a matter of timing. One press of the shutter button should be able to stop down meter and then take a picture. There's no need for a green button.

People asked similar questions when personal computers were invented "What could people possible do with this?" Turns out quite a lot, and none of it was predictable. The stuff I'm imagining is pretty obvious.

08-12-2014, 04:49 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by Snappertim Quote
Please observe the lens construction diagrams below
[...]
Can you spot a difference ????? Oh just to mention the Tokina lens is Discontinued
thibs is correct, Tokina does not produce for Pentax.
What you're seeing is that Tokina and Pentax shared optical designs for several lenses (most being actually Pentax designs), but each company is making their own versions; different barrels, different electronics, each company in their own lens factory.[COLOR="Silver"]

---------- Post added 12-08-14 at 02:59 PM ----------

Last edited by Tom S.; 08-12-2014 at 05:48 AM. Reason: Harrassing post removed.
08-12-2014, 05:30 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
Brands might be running away---but it's the stupidest move ever if they are. They need to embrace the very talent that can, and does showcase what really can be created with their products.

What do you think draws so many new people into photography? But I think it's even more than that. Old school endorsement whether implicit or implied matters. A lot.
Pros now compete with super-hobbyists and to be honest, a lot of "pro" work has been eclipsed in quality. The pro name brand is now a series of self-appointed seminar guys on YouTube. Brands are running away from the "pro" moniker because differentiating between the pro and the superior amateur is now not possible as both are on the same soapbox. What is PetaPixel going to do to differentiate between pro and non-pro work? Check tax returns?

Pro has become a cheap moniker, as in X-Pro.

So many people are drawn to photography not because they monetize it, but because it is now more accessible. Digital freed the darkroom and drove down the cost of capture in volume. Far more people can get in without reliance on a lab or esoteric darkroom work. they are more inspired by the vast sharing of stunning amateur quality in Flickr than by the guru mentality of the whole "pro" thing.

Nikon's entire marketing campaign right now is to make a direct link between a superbe photo and the consumer behind the camera. The consumer only needs the camera to make the superior shot. The pro middleman has been ushered aside.

If you want to see some of the best wildlife photos in the world head over to FredMiranda and see what the retired guys do without compensation, a D800e and a 600mm lens. A retired guy kitted out will sell far more cameras using such free advertising than any self-appointed "pro" these days. Marketing is cutting out that middleman.

There is now less paid photography work than 20 years ago. The mainstays of photojournalism and studios have shrunk with virtually no replacement. The DIY capacity has simply wiped out huge swathes of paid photography. This is not the only industry where this has happened.
08-12-2014, 05:32 AM   #97
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QuoteOriginally posted by gord lucas Quote
I'm going to go waaay, waaay back in the outfield with this comment.

I'd suggest Pentax put out two RADICALLY new cameras, like nothing else on the market. A full frame DSLR and a CMOS sensored equivalent, built like a tank, with only the bare essentials. No modes. No programming. No movies. A Hasselblad 500CM in digital guise - ONLY A SHUTTERSPEED WHEEL, MANUAL APERTURE SETTINGS, TTL flash, totally backwards compatible lenswise, both digital and manual. A set of adapters that would allow the full featured mounting of Canon and Nikon lenses as well as THEIR own manual lenses from the past.

A camera like this would, I think, dominate the photo hobby. The tech set wouldn't touch it, but those that put photographs up on the wall, in frames, would. Already I've seen a movement amongst photographers to manual focus and high speed lenses (Samyang, Sigma), because developing photographers have finally gotten the idea that an f1.4 prime can do things NO f4.5-5.6 zoom can do, that autofocus has trouble in certain areas, and you STILL have to expose for the highlights and process for the shadows on a digital camera, just like good old Kodachrome. We have not yet beat the laws of physics.

This camera would also be FILM compatible, and have a built in meter both averaging and spot, completely separate from the shutter system. Like the Pentax MX. And it should look like an MX or LX.

I believe a camera like this would dominate the PHOTOGRAPHIC hobby. Yeah, the tech weenies would NEVER go for it. I've gone back to film for ALL of my black and white, using mostly an MX or a Mamiya C330. And I can do stuff that digital can't.

This camera would completely confound the current market, and be bought not only by Pentaxians, but Nikon and Canon photographers as well. Hey, if you were a Nikon owner, wouldn't you?

I know this camera is never going to happen, but I guy can dream, can't he? I WANT A REAL CAMERA, NOT A TRI-CORDER FROM STAR TREK. And I believe this post was about speculation!
A camera like that would sell fewer copies per year than the SMC 15mm f/3.5 did...
08-12-2014, 05:56 AM   #98
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Pandamobile remote control spy camera would be a good idea.
Especially useful to photograph children and impossible to capture toddlers, also fast racing bicycles and it is a perfect addition for any amateur sleuth. Can we ask Ricoh whether they are considering one?
Possible ideas around this design is to install at least two cameras, so if a car flips around, there is always one camera pointing above horizon. Perhaps make it to be Q-mount compatible?




Last edited by Uluru; 08-12-2014 at 06:01 AM.
08-12-2014, 06:26 AM   #99
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Aristophanes...&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
I think your interpretation of the term &amp;amp;quot;pro&amp;amp;quot; is what is not the same as what I'm talking about. Whether the person has big tax returns or not ...or trying to define the fine line between this or that is irrelevant. I'm talking about Pentax rounding up several...or groups of highly talented photographers...even some people might not have ever heard of...and sponsoring and promoting what they do.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
I recall back before I started into photography seeing some PBS shows with some photographer with tons of gear romping around Africa taking shots...and while he didn't say &amp;amp;quot;I endorse Canon&amp;amp;quot; the imagery definitely influenced me as it does others. It was like &amp;amp;quot;if it is good enough for that guy I definitely need to take a look&amp;amp;quot;... It wasn't just about getting a specific camera but about taking up photography as a whole.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
It drew my interest and it will draw others too.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
In ways Pentax's big problem isn't really technological. Yes we need that...but there are other things involved too.&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&lt;br /&gt;<br />
Its like how many people see the latest phone on a movie screen and go &amp;quot;ooh I want that&amp;quot;.... There are a number of examples I can cite where people are enticed into something...and photography is no different.

Last edited by alamo5000; 08-12-2014 at 06:41 AM.
08-12-2014, 07:47 AM   #100
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
That's almost frightening.
Except for that its not true.

Interview with Pentax Executive Vice President Jim Malcolm:
Question: So do you see Pentax in the next couple of years being a viable competitor to Canon and Nikon?

Answer: No doubt about it. I have no hesitation, in my mind and in my business direction, that in the future—whether it’s three years or five years out—that there will be three dominant imaging companies on a global basis and it will be Canon, Nikon, and Pentax/Ricoh.

The reason I say that with such confidence is if you really look at Ricoh, which is our parent, Ricoh as a company is more than half the size of Canon and is twice the size of Nikon. And they’re already a dominant imaging company. They have a global footprint, they have office automation, and obviously the printer business and copier business is their heart. So if you had to compare Ricoh as a company we’re much more similar to that of Canon than we are of Nikon.
08-12-2014, 08:01 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
Aristophanes...&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
I think your interpretation of the term &amp;amp;quot;pro&amp;amp;quot; is what is not the same as what I'm talking about. Whether the person has big tax returns or not ...or trying to define the fine line between this or that is irrelevant. I'm talking about Pentax rounding up several...or groups of highly talented photographers...even some people might not have ever heard of...and sponsoring and promoting what they do.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
I recall back before I started into photography seeing some PBS shows with some photographer with tons of gear romping around Africa taking shots...and while he didn't say &amp;amp;quot;I endorse Canon&amp;amp;quot; the imagery definitely influenced me as it does others. It was like &amp;amp;quot;if it is good enough for that guy I definitely need to take a look&amp;amp;quot;... It wasn't just about getting a specific camera but about taking up photography as a whole.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
It drew my interest and it will draw others too.&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;<br />
In ways Pentax's big problem isn't really technological. Yes we need that...but there are other things involved too.&lt;br /&gt;<br />
&lt;br /&gt;<br />
Its like how many people see the latest phone on a movie screen and go &amp;quot;ooh I want that&amp;quot;.... There are a number of examples I can cite where people are enticed into something...and photography is no different.
They have the Pentax Photo Gallery.

People use Flickr.

"Talent" is open-ended and subjecttve.

There are plenty of free videos of self-appointed "pros" tromping around with Pentax gear:


No need to waste money "sponsoring" their hobby.
08-12-2014, 08:29 AM   #102
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So we have a difference here. What do you propose happen? No promotional stuff whatsoever? No advertising? Just put out more techno stuff and hope for the best?

I am much more inclined to say that companies including Pentax supporting the arts...even if its narrow ad campaigns...that's a good thing and good for business. Its not your money, its theirs.

At the end of the day business with no advertising or promotion is not nearly reaching potential. In addition to building new technical gadgets and better lenses that are more diverse...there needs to be a non technical angle here too.
08-12-2014, 08:40 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by alamo5000 Quote
So we have a difference here. What do you propose happen? No promotional stuff whatsoever? No advertising? Just put out more techno stuff and hope for the best?

I am much more inclined to say that companies including Pentax supporting the arts...even if its narrow ad campaigns...that's a good thing and good for business. Its not your money, its theirs.

At the end of the day business with no advertising or promotion is not nearly reaching potential. In addition to building new technical gadgets and better lenses that are more diverse...there needs to be a non technical angle here too.
I never said no marketing. I said the "pro" cachet as a sales agent of camera equipment has lost most of its punch. It's the "genius" mentality you need to tap into with social media at appropriate demographics. If you want retired guys on bucket list wildlife trips you show retired guys on bucket list wildlife trips. You don't have Safari Jack the "pro" demonstrate anymore because he either intimidates or is actually not that good.

The whole Ming Thein, Scott Kelby workshop thing is pretty popular, but these guys are doing those jaunts precisely because paid photo work has diminished. They primarily train others to be better amateurs! They have become the direct sellers of certain products (Kelby = Lightroom). They are the exception rather than the rule and only a tiny niche of the overall camera market actually pays attention. Selling to soccer moms is still necessary, so show soccer moms, not pros.
08-12-2014, 09:08 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
I never said no marketing. I said the "pro" cachet as a sales agent of camera equipment has lost most of its punch. It's the "genius" mentality you need to tap into with social media at appropriate demographics. If you want retired guys on bucket list wildlife trips you show retired guys on bucket list wildlife trips. You don't have Safari Jack the "pro" demonstrate anymore because he either intimidates or is actually not that good.

The whole Ming Thein, Scott Kelby workshop thing is pretty popular, but these guys are doing those jaunts precisely because paid photo work has diminished. They primarily train others to be better amateurs! They have become the direct sellers of certain products (Kelby = Lightroom). They are the exception rather than the rule and only a tiny niche of the overall camera market actually pays attention. Selling to soccer moms is still necessary, so show soccer moms, not pros.
Interesting. Pentax seem to have started this in the UK with their ambassadors. They've just added to their number with four K3 ambassadors. So far as I can tell, most are not fulltime professional photographers in any way but regular folks (though excellent photographers), maybe all except for one though I'm not sure. The emphasis is on nature and outdoor activities across all ages. However, I suppose this doesn't do much unless it is integrated into marketing campaigns and the like. Otherwise the ambassadors rather disappear after one first hears about them, popping up on FB from time to time. There's a monthly photo-entry competition on FB with the chance for any Pentax-owner become an ambassador. Maybe doesn't sound much, but before Ricoh took over there was nothing whatsoever. It may not be Nikon and wall-to-wall marketing but it's a start, I guess.
08-12-2014, 09:15 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Answer: No doubt about it. I have no hesitation, in my mind and in my business direction, that in the future—whether it’s three years or five years out—that there will be three dominant imaging companies on a global basis and it will be Canon, Nikon, and Pentax/Ricoh.
Well, 3 years have passed...they have two more years to get into that #3 spot.

Good luck
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