What Should Pentax Do?

Kunzite · 03-21-2015, 07:00 PM

The thing is, you cannot say Sony E is better supported just because Sigma launched a few lenses for it. That 70-200 f/2.8 which is no longer available in K-mount, it's possible we won't see a Sony FE version. The Art 50mm is not made for FE. Lenses made for Pentax like the 18-35 f/1.8 or the 35mm f/1.4 are not made for Sony E. OTOH, all Sigma lenses for Sony E are cheap stuff.

Not that I care; I'm fine with only using Pentax lenses.

Winder · 03-21-2015, 07:17 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Kunzite

The thing is, you cannot say Sony E is better supported just because Sigma launched a few lenses for it.

I never said that. I posted an interview where Sigma said:

"Can you give us an idea of your current priorities?"

"DSLRs first, particularly Canon and Nikon, since most of our customers use those systems. And after that mirrorless. Sony FE-mount."

What I am saying is that in the future you are going to see more Sony FE products from Sigma, and unless Ricoh can work some magic you are going to see less K-mount support. You are probably going to see less support for Sony A-mount as well and for the same reason. The current trend is for more support for FE and less for K-mount. Can Ricoh change that? Maybe maybe not.

osv · 03-21-2015, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by clackers

I'm not sure they worked very hard, Phil.

b&h sells 37 sigma lenses that will fit sony mirrorless cameras.

6 sony e-mount
31 sony a-mount
19 of which are for full frame

24 pentax k-mount
only 12 of those 24 k-mount sigmas are for full frame, and probably every one of those designs is about as old as dirt.

SLR Lenses, DSLR Lenses | B&H Photo Video

**clackers** · 03-21-2015, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by osv

b&h sells 37 sigma lenses that will fit sony mirrorless cameras.

6 sony e-mount

Madly typing again without thinking, Osv? You are so lazy. :thumbdown:

Look at your own - what shall we charitably call it? - "research".

The six lenses are in fact three lenses, silver and black versions.

The ones I mentioned above.

Who do you expect to take your trolling seriously?

Last edited by clackers; 03-21-2015 at 07:44 PM.

osv · 03-21-2015, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by clackers

The six lenses are in fact three lenses, silver and black versions.

uh, ok, i'll change the stats just for you

b&h sells 34 sigma lenses that will fit sony mirrorless cameras.

3 sony e-mount
31 sony a-mount
19 of which are for full frame

24 pentax k-mount
only 12 of those 24 k-mount sigmas are for full frame, and probably every one of those designs is about as old as dirt.

**clackers** · 03-21-2015, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by osv

uh, ok, i'll change the stats just for you

.

Too late, Osv.

That's a black mark against your (cough) ... reputation.

Or is it silver?

Kunzite · 03-22-2015, 02:24 AM

Originally posted by Winder

I never said that. [...] The current trend is for more support for FE and less for K-mount.

You cannot talk about "more support" until there will be more K-mount lenses than FE ones in production. You cannot talk about a "current trend" until it happens.

Talking about trends:
2012: 3 K, 2 E
2013: 1 K, 1 E (+ the previous 2 Es remade as A lenses)
2014: 2 K, 0 E
2015: 0:0 so far

P.S. If I'm not mistaken, 'particularly Canon and Nikon' do not exclude Pentax (nor Sony Alpha, which is still better supported than K and E). The interview might not say what you think it does

Last edited by Kunzite; 03-22-2015 at 02:35 AM.

Zygonyx · 03-22-2015, 02:41 AM

In any case : E mount cannot be full compatible with SLR mount lenses, made by Sigma or others... without considerable adaptations
If Sigma is gonna support E mount, they will probably better have to redesign their lenses, like they did for m43's DN short list of 3 lenses (19-30-60mm).
So basically, there should be some "volume discrepancy" in favour of the K mount btw K mount new adaptations of existing lenses, and E mount new lenses to design...

Nonetheless, i don't think Ricoh's gonna give any tip to Sigma to help them accelerate K-mount recovery in their catalogue. + The point has already been widely discussed here in PF columns...

ElJamoquio · 03-22-2015, 11:19 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by osv

b&h sells 37 sigma lenses that will fit sony mirrorless cameras.

6 sony e-mount
31 sony a-mount
19 of which are for full frame

24 pentax k-mount
only 12 of those 24 k-mount sigmas are for full frame, and probably every one of those designs is about as old as dirt.

SLR Lenses, DSLR Lenses | B&H Photo Video

The canon tilt-shifts also have complete functionality on sony mount.

May not matter for anybody else, but the 24 TS-E is pretty sweet.

Canon AF lenses can AF on sony, but I heard the AF was pretty slow.

osv · 03-22-2015, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

In any case : E mount cannot be full compatible with SLR mount lenses, made by Sigma or others... without considerable adaptations

how is a $12-$100 adapter "considerable adaptations"? they all bolt right up to e-mount, in seconds.

i do understand the need for full compatibility, because accurate manual focusing with an ovf is nearly impossible... so dslrs need autofocus, and of course they need autoexposure, because an ovf is not wysiwg, like an evf.

b&h sells 178 slr sigma lenses, and pretty much all of 'em mount up to sony e-mount cameras... there is even a nex adapter for the sigma sa mount.

SLR Lenses, DSLR Lenses | B&H Photo Video

there is no shortage of lenses for e-mount.

i have also heard that canon ef-mount is slow to focus with the adapter, which is a bummer :-(

Kunzite · 03-22-2015, 12:05 PM

Just curious: do you shoot without using your camera's metering system but by (somehow accurately) estimating the exposure using the EVF, because your EVF is WYSIWYG? If yes, do you have pictures to prove it?

Cynog Ap Brychan · 03-22-2015, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by osv

because accurate manual focusing with an ovf is nearly impossible

I have no trouble accurately focusing with my K-3 viewfinder. Quick focusing is another matter.

osv · 03-22-2015, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan

I have no trouble accurately focusing with my K-3 viewfinder. Quick focusing is another matter.

perfect focusing with mirrorless means using magnification, which can be really slow.. but it's 14.3x on my a7r evf, vs. 0.95x on the k3 ovf, so it's not even comparable.

focus peaking is probably closer to the ovf focusing experience, but you can tweak things like the color and intensity of the peaking, use b/w in the evf instead of color, etc... the best scenario is when you can combine magnification with mild peaking.

there is a definite learning curve, but what i think that pentax should do is make this ff camera mirrorless.

Zygonyx · 03-22-2015, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by osv

how is a $12-$100 adapter "considerable adaptations"? they all bolt right up to e-mount, in seconds.

i do understand the need for full compatibility, :-(

I didn't expect you to answer so meaningfully and suddently your own question...

Originally posted by osv

because accurate manual focusing with an ovf is nearly impossible... so dslrs need autofocus, and of course they need autoexposure, because an ovf is not wysiwg, like an evf.

You might not have sufficient knowledge or practise of high standard OVF.
No problem at all for acurate manual focussing with K-5 or K-3 afaik ; and the possibility to use either Live View/ focus peak or dedicated focussing screens are good alternatives when your eyes are struggling...

osv · 03-22-2015, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Zygonyx

I didn't expect you to answer so meaningfully and suddently your own question...

"i do understand the need for full compatibility for people who use dslrs"

i've never put an autofocus lens on my a7r.

Originally posted by Zygonyx

You might not have sufficient knowledge or practise of high standard OVF.

i was just wondering if you've ever used a real evf mirrorless camera before.

the evf in the a7r is oled, and it's higher rez than the lcds on both the a7r and the k3.

it's also never in direct sunlight, so overall it's far superior to trying to shoot with the rear lcd screen.

the k3 was never designed to be used like a cell phone or tablet camera... the pentax q probably is tho? no evf or ovf?

03-21-2015, 07:20 PM	#1038
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by clackers I'm not sure they worked very hard, Phil. b&h sells 37 sigma lenses that will fit sony mirrorless cameras. 6 sony e-mount 31 sony a-mount 19 of which are for full frame 24 pentax k-mount only 12 of those 24 k-mount sigmas are for full frame, and probably every one of those designs is about as old as dirt. SLR Lenses, DSLR Lenses \| B&H Photo Video Last edited by osv; 03-21-2015 at 07:28 PM.

03-21-2015, 08:31 PM	#1041
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by osv uh, ok, i'll change the stats just for you . Too late, Osv. That's a black mark against your (cough) ... reputation. Or is it silver? Last edited by clackers; 03-21-2015 at 09:41 PM.

03-22-2015, 02:41 AM	#1043
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	In any case : E mount cannot be full compatible with SLR mount lenses, made by Sigma or others... without considerable adaptations If Sigma is gonna support E mount, they will probably better have to redesign their lenses, like they did for m43's DN short list of 3 lenses (19-30-60mm). So basically, there should be some "volume discrepancy" in favour of the K mount btw K mount new adaptations of existing lenses, and E mount new lenses to design... Nonetheless, i don't think Ricoh's gonna give any tip to Sigma to help them accelerate K-mount recovery in their catalogue. + The point has already been widely discussed here in PF columns... Last edited by Zygonyx; 03-22-2015 at 02:49 AM.

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03-21-2015, 07:00 PM	#1036
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	The thing is, you cannot say Sony E is better supported just because Sigma launched a few lenses for it. That 70-200 f/2.8 which is no longer available in K-mount, it's possible we won't see a Sony FE version. The Art 50mm is not made for FE. Lenses made for Pentax like the 18-35 f/1.8 or the 35mm f/1.4 are not made for Sony E. OTOH, all Sigma lenses for Sony E are cheap stuff. Not that I care; I'm fine with only using Pentax lenses.

03-21-2015, 07:17 PM - 1 Like	#1037
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by Kunzite The thing is, you cannot say Sony E is better supported just because Sigma launched a few lenses for it. I never said that. I posted an interview where Sigma said: "Can you give us an idea of your current priorities?" "DSLRs first, particularly Canon and Nikon, since most of our customers use those systems. And after that mirrorless. Sony FE-mount." What I am saying is that in the future you are going to see more Sony FE products from Sigma, and unless Ricoh can work some magic you are going to see less K-mount support. You are probably going to see less support for Sony A-mount as well and for the same reason. The current trend is for more support for FE and less for K-mount. Can Ricoh change that? Maybe maybe not.

03-21-2015, 07:36 PM	#1039
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by osv b&h sells 37 sigma lenses that will fit sony mirrorless cameras. 6 sony e-mount Madly typing again without thinking, Osv? You are so lazy. :thumbdown: Look at your own - what shall we charitably call it? - "research". The six lenses are in fact three lenses, silver and black versions. The ones I mentioned above. Who do you expect to take your trolling seriously? Last edited by clackers; 03-21-2015 at 07:44 PM.

03-21-2015, 08:04 PM	#1040
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by clackers The six lenses are in fact three lenses, silver and black versions. uh, ok, i'll change the stats just for you b&h sells 34 sigma lenses that will fit sony mirrorless cameras. 3 sony e-mount 31 sony a-mount 19 of which are for full frame 24 pentax k-mount only 12 of those 24 k-mount sigmas are for full frame, and probably every one of those designs is about as old as dirt.

03-22-2015, 02:24 AM	#1042
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Originally posted by Winder I never said that. [...] The current trend is for more support for FE and less for K-mount. You cannot talk about "more support" until there will be more K-mount lenses than FE ones in production. You cannot talk about a "current trend" until it happens. Talking about trends: 2012: 3 K, 2 E 2013: 1 K, 1 E (+ the previous 2 Es remade as A lenses) 2014: 2 K, 0 E 2015: 0:0 so far P.S. If I'm not mistaken, 'particularly Canon and Nikon' do not exclude Pentax (nor Sony Alpha, which is still better supported than K and E). The interview might not say what you think it does Last edited by Kunzite; 03-22-2015 at 02:35 AM.

03-22-2015, 11:19 AM - 1 Like	#1044
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by osv b&h sells 37 sigma lenses that will fit sony mirrorless cameras. 6 sony e-mount 31 sony a-mount 19 of which are for full frame 24 pentax k-mount only 12 of those 24 k-mount sigmas are for full frame, and probably every one of those designs is about as old as dirt. SLR Lenses, DSLR Lenses \| B&H Photo Video The canon tilt-shifts also have complete functionality on sony mount. May not matter for anybody else, but the 24 TS-E is pretty sweet. Canon AF lenses can AF on sony, but I heard the AF was pretty slow.

03-22-2015, 11:51 AM	#1045
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Zygonyx In any case : E mount cannot be full compatible with SLR mount lenses, made by Sigma or others... without considerable adaptations how is a $12-$100 adapter "considerable adaptations"? they all bolt right up to e-mount, in seconds. i do understand the need for full compatibility, because accurate manual focusing with an ovf is nearly impossible... so dslrs need autofocus, and of course they need autoexposure, because an ovf is not wysiwg, like an evf. b&h sells 178 slr sigma lenses, and pretty much all of 'em mount up to sony e-mount cameras... there is even a nex adapter for the sigma sa mount. SLR Lenses, DSLR Lenses \| B&H Photo Video there is no shortage of lenses for e-mount. i have also heard that canon ef-mount is slow to focus with the adapter, which is a bummer :-(

03-22-2015, 12:05 PM	#1046
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,132	Just curious: do you shoot without using your camera's metering system but by (somehow accurately) estimating the exposure using the EVF, because your EVF is WYSIWYG? If yes, do you have pictures to prove it?

03-22-2015, 12:32 PM	#1047
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199 Original Poster	Originally posted by osv because accurate manual focusing with an ovf is nearly impossible I have no trouble accurately focusing with my K-3 viewfinder. Quick focusing is another matter.

03-22-2015, 01:33 PM	#1048
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Cynog Ap Brychan I have no trouble accurately focusing with my K-3 viewfinder. Quick focusing is another matter. perfect focusing with mirrorless means using magnification, which can be really slow.. but it's 14.3x on my a7r evf, vs. 0.95x on the k3 ovf, so it's not even comparable. focus peaking is probably closer to the ovf focusing experience, but you can tweak things like the color and intensity of the peaking, use b/w in the evf instead of color, etc... the best scenario is when you can combine magnification with mild peaking. there is a definite learning curve, but what i think that pentax should do is make this ff camera mirrorless.

03-22-2015, 01:51 PM	#1049
Zygonyx Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Ile de France Posts: 4,033	Originally posted by osv how is a $12-$100 adapter "considerable adaptations"? they all bolt right up to e-mount, in seconds. i do understand the need for full compatibility, :-( I didn't expect you to answer so meaningfully and suddently your own question... Originally posted by osv because accurate manual focusing with an ovf is nearly impossible... so dslrs need autofocus, and of course they need autoexposure, because an ovf is not wysiwg, like an evf. You might not have sufficient knowledge or practise of high standard OVF. No problem at all for acurate manual focussing with K-5 or K-3 afaik ; and the possibility to use either Live View/ focus peak or dedicated focussing screens are good alternatives when your eyes are struggling...

03-22-2015, 02:07 PM	#1050
osv Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: So Cal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,080	Originally posted by Zygonyx I didn't expect you to answer so meaningfully and suddently your own question... "i do understand the need for full compatibility for people who use dslrs" i've never put an autofocus lens on my a7r. Originally posted by Zygonyx You might not have sufficient knowledge or practise of high standard OVF. i was just wondering if you've ever used a real evf mirrorless camera before. the evf in the a7r is oled, and it's higher rez than the lcds on both the a7r and the k3. it's also never in direct sunlight, so overall it's far superior to trying to shoot with the rear lcd screen. the k3 was never designed to be used like a cell phone or tablet camera... the pentax q probably is tho? no evf or ovf?