What Should Pentax Do?

Cynog Ap Brychan · 03-22-2015, 02:23 PM

Originally posted by osv

but what i think that pentax should do is make this ff camera mirrorless.

Then I wouldn't buy it. I have a couple or three EVF cameras, but I don't enjoy using them half as much as my DSLRs. The trend is to stuff too much tech into them, so I'm constantly trying to find out what the heck I've touched to change all the settings. This isn't the fault of the EVFs of course, but it's symptomatic of the breed of mirrorless things.

I'll make a prediction - the FF Pentax will not be mirrorless, and I'll be buying one. And another one - I'll still be using OVFs in 20 years, if I'm still around.

Kunzite · 03-22-2015, 03:04 PM

The FF Pentax is a DSLR, period. Pentax has no obligation to respond to requests from people who won't be buying their cameras anyway.

uzimakiroar · 03-22-2015, 04:57 PM - **1 Like**

I'm coming to this late but maybe now that FF is on the horizon, we can figure out what we can do with all those amazing DA limiteds. With such an arsenal of fantastic glass that performs brilliantly and is ultra compact, why not try to finesse the idea of a compact camera powerhouse?
I believe a camera that would execute those limiteds with the sensor of the K-3/K-5iis, AND have it in a compact rangefinder/X-Pro/A6000/updated K-01 would be a spectacular addition to the line up.
Pentax now has FF coming, 2 powerhouses in the dslr corner( K-3/K-5iis ), and The Super Strong 645Z. Wouldn't now be a good time to surprise the market with camera that fills a niche that will attract new people to the brand? We know that that specific type of camera is in demand and that it has a following. Lets grab them with a new camera along with introducing them to the beauty of pentax glass and the specialness of the da limiteds.
Just a thought.......

Ash · 03-22-2015, 05:07 PM

Hi Uzima, the DA Limiteds are indeed little beauties to behold. I would so long for those lenses to all be Full Frame compatible, because that would undoubtedly attract more photographers to Pentax, pro and amateur alike.
But Pentax have a plan, and that is to create DFA zooms and primes that are size thrifty but don't compromise on image quality. So standby on those developments, but even presently we have the marvellous FA Limiteds which are still in production, and a number of third party zooms that can cover the 35mm sensor from UWA to over 500mm...

Kunzite · 03-22-2015, 05:26 PM

I hope they will make both high-performance, fast D FA* lenses and a new D FA Limited series.

uzimakiroar · 03-22-2015, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Ash

Hi Uzima, the DA Limiteds are indeed little beauties to behold. I would so long for those lenses to all be Full Frame compatible, because that would undoubtedly attract more photographers to Pentax, pro and amateur alike.
But Pentax have a plan, and that is to create DFA zooms and primes that are size thrifty but don't compromise on image quality. So standby on those developments, but even presently we have the marvellous FA Limiteds which are still in production, and a number of third party zooms that can cover the 35mm sensor from UWA to over 500mm...

Yeah!!!! I'm already a fan of the 77mm and 43mm and love the idea of the 31mm if I thought I would shoot that length. But it seems that my b/w film loves the other two FAs.
And yes, if Pentax can somehow make those DAs FF ( size ) compatible, that would be amazing!

eliallan · 03-22-2015, 05:36 PM

Well, its purely speculation/dreaming, but I would love to see the k01 idea reimagined as a square format k mount. 1:1 or 4:3 aspect to maximize sensor size for current lens designs. Basically an apsc version of a Mamiya RZ. The body could be made smaller by squareing off the design, no grip, no prism bump, just a flat lcd waist level finder with flip up shade. I think this would offer a truly interesting combination of novelty and useability. In particular a massive electronic waist level finder would be amazing for portraiture and street shooting, video as well.

Winder · 03-22-2015, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by uzimakiroar

I'm coming to this late but maybe now that FF is on the horizon, we can figure out what we can do with all those amazing DA limiteds.

APS-C isn't going anywhere and if anything Ricoh needs to continue to develop high quality APS-C glass. If these new DC motors are really that much faster then lenses like the DA* 55mm and the DA* 200mm need an immediate update and SDM needs to disappear into the history books.

uzimakiroar · 03-22-2015, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by eliallan

Well, its purely speculation/dreaming, but I would love to see the k01 idea reimagined as a square format k mount. 1:1 or 4:3 aspect to maximize sensor size for current lens designs. Basically an apsc version of a Mamiya RZ. The body could be made smaller by squareing off the design, no grip, no prism bump, just a flat lcd waist level finder with flip up shade. I think this would offer a truly interesting combination of novelty and useability. In particular a massive electronic waist level finder would be amazing for portraiture and street shooting, video as well.

What a innovative and out of the box idea. As it is..... My bag carries a Hassy 501cm and my Ricoh GR. It would be so dope to carry around this idea! But did you mean Pentax 67 since the RZ didn't have a grip or prism bump? I knew what you mean though!

Barry Pearson · 03-23-2015, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by Winder

APS-C isn't going anywhere and if anything Ricoh needs to continue to develop high quality APS-C glass. If these new DC motors are really that much faster then lenses like the DA* 55mm and the DA* 200mm need an immediate update and SDM needs to disappear into the history books.

Perhaps the DA* 55 f/1.4 could be transformed into a D FA* 55mm f/1.4 (with a DC motor, of course).

My tests on a film camera suggest that it is an FF lens.

thibs · 03-23-2015, 03:44 AM

Originally posted by Winder

APS-C isn't going anywhere and if anything Ricoh needs to continue to develop high quality APS-C glass. If these new DC motors are really that much faster then lenses like the DA* 55mm and the DA* 200mm need an immediate update and SDM needs to disappear into the history books.

Agreed. Yes those motors (if the lens is desgined for it) are WAY faster. And yes DA* lenses should be upgraded although I suspect that FF lenses will come first.
Fortunately for you, both lenses you wrote about are both FF lenses. DA*55 though may or may not be kept as it was designed to replace FA85 as a portrait lens. I dunno what Ricoh intends to do with it.
IMO the 55 is a nice alternative to usual 50mm but it may come later.

The DA*200 is an FA200 in DA* clothes so they may or may not reuse the optical formula, or chose to upgrade it to modern standard (if it isn't now).

All current DA lenses covering FF can be upgraded to modern DC motor. The question is: should they upgrade or should they rework them ?
IMO a number of them will get reworked.

Alizarine · 03-25-2015, 06:47 PM

I find it funny when people say MILCs work because they're more portable - well maybe if all the lenses were pancake types. The moment you insert fast zooms into the equation that advantage is all gone, unless it's as small as the Q.

So what should Pentax do? Just keep making things that work, and work at their best... A good photographer will always know how to use his tools best for the purpose he uses them for

Uluru · 03-29-2015, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by Alizarine

I find it funny when people say MILCs work because they're more portable - well maybe if all the lenses were pancake types. The moment you insert fast zooms into the equation that advantage is all gone, unless it's as small as the Q.

So what should Pentax do? Just keep making things that work, and work at their best... A good photographer will always know how to use his tools best for the purpose he uses them for

MILC works, and the Q is the best MILC system ever made. Everything falls apart after mounting any zoom lens on it.
But Q is a miracle.

Uluru · 03-29-2015, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by Winder

Sony is indeed playing catch-up. The FE line is just over 1 year old. They obviously have a lot of catching up to do. This also means there is opportunity for Sigma.
Sigma has been watching the market. They have been watching sales and demand. Sony A7 line is selling more bodies than the A99 even with the lens issue.

Sigma has added two and two together, and saw Sony does not make their own optics, nor cares about it. It is done by Zeiss. So Sigma knows Sony knows nothing about optics, employs a rather upmarket manufacturer and concludes, "O boy, we can beat them on price because our designs have been paid off many times by now".
End of story.

On the other hand, Sigma knows Pentax market now caters very much for advanced users — that is all now left in Pentax land — who know a bit or two about optics, and discerning Pentax user will always opt for Pentax optics.

**jatrax** · 03-29-2015, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by Uluru

On the other hand, Sigma knows Pentax market now caters very much for advanced users — that is all now left in Pentax land — who know a bit or two about optics, and discerning Pentax user will always opt for Pentax optics.

Mostly, but there are holes in the Pentax catalog that could be filled by Sigma, and most likely will if the FF body sales take off. And based on the list prices of the new Pentax glass they are leaving some room for Sigma and others. It is all about volume and margin, show Sigma good body sales numbers and keep your own glass margins high enough that third party vendors can slide in under the OEM prices and still make money and yes, Sigma will be back. But that is several years down the road I think. Still the ground work is being laid.

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03-22-2015, 02:23 PM	#1051
Cynog Ap Brychan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Gloucester Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,199 Original Poster	Originally posted by osv but what i think that pentax should do is make this ff camera mirrorless. Then I wouldn't buy it. I have a couple or three EVF cameras, but I don't enjoy using them half as much as my DSLRs. The trend is to stuff too much tech into them, so I'm constantly trying to find out what the heck I've touched to change all the settings. This isn't the fault of the EVFs of course, but it's symptomatic of the breed of mirrorless things. I'll make a prediction - the FF Pentax will not be mirrorless, and I'll be buying one. And another one - I'll still be using OVFs in 20 years, if I'm still around.

03-22-2015, 03:04 PM	#1052
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,100	The FF Pentax is a DSLR, period. Pentax has no obligation to respond to requests from people who won't be buying their cameras anyway.

03-22-2015, 04:57 PM - 1 Like	#1053
uzimakiroar Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Los Angeles,CA. Posts: 30	I'm coming to this late but maybe now that FF is on the horizon, we can figure out what we can do with all those amazing DA limiteds. With such an arsenal of fantastic glass that performs brilliantly and is ultra compact, why not try to finesse the idea of a compact camera powerhouse? I believe a camera that would execute those limiteds with the sensor of the K-3/K-5iis, AND have it in a compact rangefinder/X-Pro/A6000/updated K-01 would be a spectacular addition to the line up. Pentax now has FF coming, 2 powerhouses in the dslr corner( K-3/K-5iis ), and The Super Strong 645Z. Wouldn't now be a good time to surprise the market with camera that fills a niche that will attract new people to the brand? We know that that specific type of camera is in demand and that it has a following. Lets grab them with a new camera along with introducing them to the beauty of pentax glass and the specialness of the da limiteds. Just a thought.......

03-22-2015, 05:07 PM	#1054
Ash Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,914	Hi Uzima, the DA Limiteds are indeed little beauties to behold. I would so long for those lenses to all be Full Frame compatible, because that would undoubtedly attract more photographers to Pentax, pro and amateur alike. But Pentax have a plan, and that is to create DFA zooms and primes that are size thrifty but don't compromise on image quality. So standby on those developments, but even presently we have the marvellous FA Limiteds which are still in production, and a number of third party zooms that can cover the 35mm sensor from UWA to over 500mm...

03-22-2015, 05:26 PM	#1055
Kunzite Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Romania Posts: 15,100	I hope they will make both high-performance, fast D FA* lenses and a new D FA Limited series.

03-22-2015, 05:30 PM	#1056
uzimakiroar Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Los Angeles,CA. Posts: 30	Originally posted by Ash Hi Uzima, the DA Limiteds are indeed little beauties to behold. I would so long for those lenses to all be Full Frame compatible, because that would undoubtedly attract more photographers to Pentax, pro and amateur alike. But Pentax have a plan, and that is to create DFA zooms and primes that are size thrifty but don't compromise on image quality. So standby on those developments, but even presently we have the marvellous FA Limiteds which are still in production, and a number of third party zooms that can cover the 35mm sensor from UWA to over 500mm... Yeah!!!! I'm already a fan of the 77mm and 43mm and love the idea of the 31mm if I thought I would shoot that length. But it seems that my b/w film loves the other two FAs. And yes, if Pentax can somehow make those DAs FF ( size ) compatible, that would be amazing!

03-22-2015, 05:36 PM	#1057
eliallan Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Photos: Albums Posts: 43	Well, its purely speculation/dreaming, but I would love to see the k01 idea reimagined as a square format k mount. 1:1 or 4:3 aspect to maximize sensor size for current lens designs. Basically an apsc version of a Mamiya RZ. The body could be made smaller by squareing off the design, no grip, no prism bump, just a flat lcd waist level finder with flip up shade. I think this would offer a truly interesting combination of novelty and useability. In particular a massive electronic waist level finder would be amazing for portraiture and street shooting, video as well.

03-22-2015, 05:53 PM	#1058
Winder Pentaxian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617	Originally posted by uzimakiroar I'm coming to this late but maybe now that FF is on the horizon, we can figure out what we can do with all those amazing DA limiteds. APS-C isn't going anywhere and if anything Ricoh needs to continue to develop high quality APS-C glass. If these new DC motors are really that much faster then lenses like the DA* 55mm and the DA* 200mm need an immediate update and SDM needs to disappear into the history books.

03-22-2015, 06:17 PM	#1059
uzimakiroar Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Los Angeles,CA. Posts: 30	Originally posted by eliallan Well, its purely speculation/dreaming, but I would love to see the k01 idea reimagined as a square format k mount. 1:1 or 4:3 aspect to maximize sensor size for current lens designs. Basically an apsc version of a Mamiya RZ. The body could be made smaller by squareing off the design, no grip, no prism bump, just a flat lcd waist level finder with flip up shade. I think this would offer a truly interesting combination of novelty and useability. In particular a massive electronic waist level finder would be amazing for portraiture and street shooting, video as well. What a innovative and out of the box idea. As it is..... My bag carries a Hassy 501cm and my Ricoh GR. It would be so dope to carry around this idea! But did you mean Pentax 67 since the RZ didn't have a grip or prism bump? I knew what you mean though!

03-23-2015, 12:31 AM	#1060
Barry Pearson Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Stockport Posts: 964	Originally posted by Winder APS-C isn't going anywhere and if anything Ricoh needs to continue to develop high quality APS-C glass. If these new DC motors are really that much faster then lenses like the DA* 55mm and the DA* 200mm need an immediate update and SDM needs to disappear into the history books. Perhaps the DA* 55 f/1.4 could be transformed into a D FA* 55mm f/1.4 (with a DC motor, of course). My tests on a film camera suggest that it is an FF lens.

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03-23-2015, 03:44 AM	#1061
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 6,947	Originally posted by Winder APS-C isn't going anywhere and if anything Ricoh needs to continue to develop high quality APS-C glass. If these new DC motors are really that much faster then lenses like the DA* 55mm and the DA* 200mm need an immediate update and SDM needs to disappear into the history books. Agreed. Yes those motors (if the lens is desgined for it) are WAY faster. And yes DA* lenses should be upgraded although I suspect that FF lenses will come first. Fortunately for you, both lenses you wrote about are both FF lenses. DA55 though may or may not be kept as it was designed to replace FA85 as a portrait lens. I dunno what Ricoh intends to do with it. IMO the 55 is a nice alternative to usual 50mm but it may come later. The DA200 is an FA200 in DA* clothes so they may or may not reuse the optical formula, or chose to upgrade it to modern standard (if it isn't now). All current DA lenses covering FF can be upgraded to modern DC motor. The question is: should they upgrade or should they rework them ? IMO a number of them will get reworked.

03-25-2015, 06:47 PM	#1062
Alizarine Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Manila Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,185	I find it funny when people say MILCs work because they're more portable - well maybe if all the lenses were pancake types. The moment you insert fast zooms into the equation that advantage is all gone, unless it's as small as the Q. So what should Pentax do? Just keep making things that work, and work at their best... A good photographer will always know how to use his tools best for the purpose he uses them for

03-29-2015, 02:58 PM	#1063
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by Alizarine I find it funny when people say MILCs work because they're more portable - well maybe if all the lenses were pancake types. The moment you insert fast zooms into the equation that advantage is all gone, unless it's as small as the Q. So what should Pentax do? Just keep making things that work, and work at their best... A good photographer will always know how to use his tools best for the purpose he uses them for MILC works, and the Q is the best MILC system ever made. Everything falls apart after mounting any zoom lens on it. But Q is a miracle.

03-29-2015, 04:29 PM	#1064
Uluru Banned Join Date: May 2010 Location: Back to my Walkabout Creek Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,535	Originally posted by Winder Sony is indeed playing catch-up. The FE line is just over 1 year old. They obviously have a lot of catching up to do. This also means there is opportunity for Sigma. Sigma has been watching the market. They have been watching sales and demand. Sony A7 line is selling more bodies than the A99 even with the lens issue. Sigma has added two and two together, and saw Sony does not make their own optics, nor cares about it. It is done by Zeiss. So Sigma knows Sony knows nothing about optics, employs a rather upmarket manufacturer and concludes, "O boy, we can beat them on price because our designs have been paid off many times by now". End of story. On the other hand, Sigma knows Pentax market now caters very much for advanced users — that is all now left in Pentax land — who know a bit or two about optics, and discerning Pentax user will always opt for Pentax optics.

03-29-2015, 04:51 PM	#1065
jatrax Site Supporter Join Date: May 2010 Location: Washington Cascades Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 12,991	Originally posted by Uluru On the other hand, Sigma knows Pentax market now caters very much for advanced users — that is all now left in Pentax land — who know a bit or two about optics, and discerning Pentax user will always opt for Pentax optics. Mostly, but there are holes in the Pentax catalog that could be filled by Sigma, and most likely will if the FF body sales take off. And based on the list prices of the new Pentax glass they are leaving some room for Sigma and others. It is all about volume and margin, show Sigma good body sales numbers and keep your own glass margins high enough that third party vendors can slide in under the OEM prices and still make money and yes, Sigma will be back. But that is several years down the road I think. Still the ground work is being laid.